jodgi

I dunno how to drag text out of the spoiler box.

What was intended: before edit: I'll see if I can drag things out of the spoiler thingy...

Gonna try that now. text, then spoiler tag:

^Look how the spoiler tag disregards what I tried to do. How it looked while I typed it in: -----------

I'm struggling too. The new forum is nice and all, but I dearly miss the "raw text" input mode of the previous version. The spoiler tags do what they want, look: I'm gonna put some text here and a spoiler tag

@Prater I doubt it's any use. Not only does he deliberately and completely disregard 18 months of testing and a metric ton of topics on the timer issue, he also does not see any problem with revenge ganks and re-tagging ad nauseam.

Did you read that out in your head before you typed it out? Do you always assume idiocy or the worst when you engage in gameplay feedback? If that's "what it looks like" to you how should we gauge the validity of your further feedback? That's exactly what we're saying. What happens instead, though? Is it your goal to reduce ganking? So, tommi is locked in his thinking due to the last two years while you are a free thinker that happens to have it right? As a hardened "I want to be ganked" pvp veteran you tell people to click those perks? You assume to much Basic Cutter is fixed. The PVP issue of constant retag remains. He is not talking about Sea Trials, pay attention! So, that's what you recommend? Noted. I'm just gonna leave this here:

You brought that up, we never even mentioned fair fights. So, on one hand you bring up alts as a way to play the game and now your heart is filled with love for the casuals... Take your time, think through what your opinion is about timers, ganks, revenge-ganks, casuals and pvp-gamers. State that opinion instead of running around here and there shooting from the hip. I've seen you stating you're very good at pvp, with such skill comes great responsibility. You shouldn't look down on us that find pvp hard, but rather help us with one line of reasoning, not several (or imagined).

It brings people out for pvp, no question about it. But is it good or bad for the overall game and long term pvp health? I remember how it was after santi owners were let out into the OW. How long did it take for everything to devolve into passive and reactive play with long timers? Everone (with a clue) never daring to initiate a fight because of potential hidden reinforcements. It is most likely to see the same result with a larger playerbase and revenge-ganks. It may take longer and we may get blessed with a larger quantity of temporarily clueless players, but people will learn that initiating a fight is a bad idea and camping ongoing fights is a much better idea. People will protest no matter what we do, but do we enable people to go out and take initiative, or do we punish initiative so hard we risk losing it? Two scenarios: 1. "Waaah! I might quit the game because I was ganked!" "There, there... Next time you go out and gank someone." 2. "Waah! I might quit the game because I was killed by a camping revenge fleet!" "There, there... Next time don't be foolish and start a fight in enemy territory, instead wait until they start a fight, use the ample time to collect your friends and kill them as they try to get away."

Or vimeo

A little risk is fine. Risk in proportion to how close to other enemies you're hunting is also good, all the way up max risk level 10. Revenge fleets that can use the OW compression to teleport across absurd distances in relation to the instanced fight is risk turned up to 11.

Hey! He's actually throwing a bone to the wolves. You no like?

I wish that everything was decided by who was within visual range where and when the tag happened. You know I don't like revenge fleets hyperdriving to a known battle teleport gate. Why? Because it makes smart players stay away from pvp. It's 17 months since Doran put up his "BROKEN ARROW" post.

please, no. Not like this. Don't demonize... or moronize us like this. I've never seen anyone trying to nullify players defending an area... if they're there. It's those that show up twenty minutes later multiplied with OW time compression we want to burn with fire. There's been a broad concensus for the last 18 months that 2 min timers is the optimal compromise for the inherent challenge the OW vs. instance time break creates. I've seen some posters asking for a hull bashing based meta, but I've never seen people asking for insta win demasting. We want balance between choices. Maybe some of us have wanted solo pvp near enemy capitals since that's where we know we can find targets, forgive us but we've been through some pvp dry spells. Going solo close to enemy capitals should be punished, we accept that. Don't straw man us, pretty please!

I sympathise with the frustration of having players invading your waters, snatching your sheep and teleporting out. It is not optimal. We've been down this road many times before; Do we encourage pro-active play or re-active play? After observing OW for a long time many players have reached the conclusion that if you enable re-active play just a tidbit too much pvp grinds down to a crawl real fast. Booshkemping in tanks, sniping in FPS games or what have you...it all leads to static gameplay, it's not just a NA thing. Maybe perfect balance is attainable? But I wouldn't bet on it. I think it's better to have OW PvP run a little too hot with ragequits and wailing women than to slam massive carbon rods (revenge ganks, long timers, et al) into the core and kill off the initiative. Everyone in mouthing "We want OW PvP", but I suspect there are quite a few hearts out there that don't really mean it.

We can do this all day. At the end of the day it is still a feature we would love to be without.

I will

Are you fine with 3x fun tax?

This is not how human psychology works, but I won't interrupt your narrative further...

We had this. You probably need to wait for the arena game to do this as the feature was deliberatly pulled from the OW game.

Are you trying to make my almost useless thing completely useless? T_T

Maybe some new guys find this helpful? I decided to obsess over optimal perk distribution for a very specific task and ended up making this little thing. You need to log into google and make your own copy to use it, btw...

I know some people who have been doing that exclusively since wipe. They're not idiots so fleeting up with Tlynxes or Tbrigs is obviously out of the question. If I was to do this I would set up to hunt fleet-pimp raiders (Here timers and the universally loved revengegank feature rear their ugly heads, but not in this topic...). Taking risks is one thing, doing something incredibly stupid is another. But you don't do that, do you? Instead you hunt the even more lucrative trade goods. I wouldn't give a single hello kitty.

I completely agree. I didn't make it abundantly clear, but I was thinking more of players who's main drive is OW PvP. Where is OW going if anyone who wants to keep up with the equipment grind absolutely has to partake in the economy activities? Is that really so terrible? Well... no. The eco bit is a bitter pill I could swallow for OW PvP (context: timers and recharging repairs are way bigger problems for me but I don't want to discuss that here). Do I wish to do the nickle and dime, waste time thing? Hell, no! I don't even want to get rich. I do want optimal or at the very least competitive gear for OW PvP and I'm finding that bot grinding is not only boring but also inadequate to keep up in the equipment race. I'll have you know I've actually set up cannon shop as a funding experiment. I've chosen to sell guns at fair rates casual players can afford so I'm probably gimping my inner capitalist. I get a little from that but not enough to keep up. The tiny fun I get from that is I'm ruining the price gouging frenzy of EVERY other seller in CS. I'm glad you're having fun and getting rich, though. I just can't...

Honest question: Are you guys fine with fighting only players making pennies while traders live comfortably?