Liq

Thanks for all the input A few notable comments in this thread (IMO) Protection only up to a certain rank, e.g. Flag Captain, 650 crew ( @Pada) Pro: Actual noobs get protected Con: Econ alts get the desire to stay low rank for full protection aswell Safe zone yes, but not at the main trading hub, but at a seperate newb area ( @Captain John Keats) Pro: Seperate safe spot for noobs to get into the game, doesnt interefere with the "regular" sandbox world Con: - ? - (perhaps takes away "content" from RvR, see bahamas rookie area) "PvP Flag", switchable once a week ( @Po Tsai) Pro: Protecting noobs Con: Alts, and the ability to sail invulnerbale anywhere as a scout - which is not the intention of safe zones Also, in a sense, @Banished Privateer is right - We do already kind of have different layers of Sec. zones - Just need to determine the sizes Capital area (the tiny one) = high sec. zone Reinforcment zone ~ Low Sec. zone (battle open forever) Still, the issue of making it attractive for players to leave the Safe Zones remains. Personally, in the first few months of playing the game, I was a PvE "scrub" aswell. Was not interested in exploring the world and meeting actual players at all; my goal was to proceed to the highest rank and gain as many big boats as possible - at that time, that was fun to me. It was more of a coincidence that at some point I set sail in disposable ships (I think we all had renommees?) and sailed out. We met a French 1st rate, and were obviously VERY excited. Didn't think we could take him, but as we did, we tasted blood for the first time, and from then on I was not interested in fighting dull bots at all anymore. More incentives for leaving the zones could be more rewards / gold in general (which is exploitable, sadly), or content you cannot get anywhere else - perhaps new flags, pennants, paints, seperate rank title, ... In the end, the decision will have to be made between Full hardcore sandbox mode (no safezone) or a more newb player friendly mode (high sec zones). Hard to tell how the game in its current setup would look like with a full server (which we hopefully see again, at some point, after release). Could be that finding PvP @ free ports or elsewhere wouldn't be an issue, or could be that capital camping becomes even more extreme. IMHO, the latter is more probable.

Thanks, good points - added them with your name in the main post. but, what do you mean by... Are you suggesting to reduce the amount of nations? Also I dont know if safe zone ports not belonging to any clan has to be a bad thing. Them being "nation" owned is okay, I think

Recently, the mindset of "Make Safezones Safe again!" has gained a lot of supporters. Requins are sniping noobs all over the place. In this thread I would like to have a formal discussion about safezones, if they should be a thing, and if so, under what circumstances. I think the game (-devs) have to finally make the decision whether or not newbs should get absolute protection in a certain area or not. In their current state, the reinforcment zones are not fullfulling their role of protecting noobs. Those often don't even know how to call for help in nation chat. It's rather the more experienced captains that are gaining from it, so they can craft / trade in peace. The game is getting closer to a release state, Port UI should attract quite a few new players and perhaps we will also see some returning players. However, it will most likely not take them long to say *eff this* after getting sniped @ the capital and put the game away again. There was an attempt to fill the spot of PvP for those that want it, with the Patrol Zones. However, with a pretty bad execution. Personally I don't even dare anymore to attack certain nation players in the zones, because I know the probability of more of them spawning in half an hour later is pretty high. Thus, I think having a 100% safe zone (nation owning the zone is not attackable) is the right way to go, given... 1 Zone per nation Smaller zone than the ones we currently got Chooseable "High-Sec missions", which ONLY spawn in the green zone, granting significantly less rewards than... "Low Sec" missions, which spawn in an area outside the first, green zone, grant more rewards by @Christendom: Ships crafted in the zone are only basic (green or blue) Cannot tow a ship to / from ports within the safe zone The idea of a 100% sec zone should be to give new players a place to get into the game; not give vets a secret cave to hite at to produce all their stuff they need. *Ermagerd, where do I now go to kill stuff??* For there to be a safe zone; I think there needs to be a reliable alternative for players to find PvP. *You scrub, we got Patrol zones for that*... yeah sure, we do. However, with a pretty bad execution. 30 min open battles @ a place where both sides on their own will, to get PvP, is not a solution. A while ago, I posted a suggestion, how the ideal PvP zone (in my opinion, of course) would look like. As far as I know, the patrol zone IS on the devs to do list, however only after the Port UI (and localization?) is done. I fear that will be too late, though. The two zones explained: "High Sec" - Players of the nation owning the zone CANNOT be attacked, at all. "Low Sec" - Players of the nation owning the zone CAN be attacked, Only extra rule is battles stay open for a little longer than the rest of OW - perhaps 10 minutes Zones visualized (Just an example, not too sure about the zones size), just for you to get the idea: Pro's Noobs are safe. Better player retention rate Less salt. Con's Less sandboxy. PvP zones are more Arena-ish.

Together with a fixed patrol zone RoE, yes please But that will only happen post port UI / localization (if even that) So I guess we will have to wait a while.

Masts can be adjusted in general still But please no playerowned ships / mods in tourneys. Maybe have them in a "upgrade pool" free to choose from for everyone

Thats also why I think duel tourneys (or other dev created tourneys), if they ever happen, should be in same ships same woods no mods. No excuses, no worrying, no crying Just battling it out.

At work currently so not doing that right now. But anyone could do that. Might get even heard then if someone else does it. you know.. Having made a thread with Close to 100 voters of which 90% voted for a change, and there being no reply, kind of makes you think why even bother.

Heh...

Isnt that what we can get in epic events? Those that like more difficult pve could do epics. No more ai wasting time tagging in OW please.

I think it would be wise to inform the community about the planned BRs for each ship and allow discussion. Else one or two ships might get underrated by a lot and thus spammed as the new meta in PBs. And there will be more crying and work for you to adjust the BRs, again.

Oh dont get me wrong, ganks on tags will still happen (tagging with numbers Advantage), but joining ongoing battles after 30 min in a roflstomp fleet wont. Suggestion of allowing entrance up to 1.5x BR of enemy team could also turn initial ganks into a nightmare for the initial gankers. E.g. 10 frigs tag one frig, now 14 frigs can join the side with one frig. Should make such roflstomps less attractive.

Patrol zone with a proper RoE would be Great. Having massive fleets joining any engagement 30 minutes into the battle is Not.

If I understood correctly you are refering to the revenge fleet phenomena, which I agree is BS. Battles in capital areas are open the whole time now do so got to be careful there, which I think is reasonable. However, Anywhere else on the map the general rule should be you see what ypu get, thats why we got the 3 min (formerly 2 min) join timer. We did have a way more significant speedboost and invisibility timer after Leaving a battle. These are now reduced to a point where a somewhat smart revenge squad can easily catch you upon Leaving the battle. Solution: re increase both (invis. And speed Boost), as I think the main argument was used by those complaining about capital water hitters. I tend to Not hunt in capital areas now just because you never know what might spawn in in the 90 min. Regarding AI: I dont think AI will ever be able to get to a Level where they are actually useful in smaller engagements, which I think is also a Good thing. Focus should be on PvP if you're out hunting for other players.

Regarding point 1, yes you will sometimes end up facing several enemies (in bigger ships), but that doesn't mean you shouldnt try. Use cheap ships, that way loss won't hurt much. Once you get past the point of worrying about losing ships, you'll get even better. Chance of failing is there, but trying can be worth it few examples Of course it won't always work and there will be losses, but you gotta BELIEVE and at least try. Sometimes you got to fight hte odds, and might be surprised by the outcome. As for the rest... I tend to agree - I do think the "Elite" upgrades shouldn't even be a thing. Way too powerful, especially when combined with the base ones (which are fine, IMHO). I do think, one of the main issues with the small new playerbase we get nowadays is that the RvR scene by now is in hands of vets having played 2+ years, being in their own small (often closed) groups; the access to RvR for new players therefore is pretty hard - also because of the difference in knowledge. Saying the same thing over and over again (use manual sailing, focus fire, dont sail downwind in brawl, don't shoot at angled hull, ....) can be annoying, and thus focus on recruitment might be lower I remember when I started the game (playing as GB), RvR and Capturing port was more of a national effort. Not too sure if focussing 100% on clans is the right approach.

Im not trying to show off, but the herc in its current state is pretty ridiculous and unbalanced. Dlc or not doesnt matter. Its turnrate combined with the odd great bouncing abilities make it pretty hard to hit. If you get 5-7 hits out of a broadside on it, you're lucky. Also the masts are oddly tough, combined with french rig you will have to be pretty close in order to even deal damage. I really do not think a trinc can deal 1:1 with a decent herc captain. My game feeling, after 5400 hours into the game, tells me it should be capable of doing so. Nerf needed urgently, imho

Im fine with much longer open battles in a supposed to be safer area for noobs But Battles being open for half an hour in a so called "patrol zone" is bs.

By that logic, as you hit rear admiral you got "no reason to sail anything else than a l'Ocean"? I was the second Brit on pvp2 to hit rear admiral, and 1st rates are probably my least used ships. Once you hit rear admiral you will realize there is much more beauty in smaller ships, too. Especially frigates.

Hmm sounds like we need a pvp zone. Oh wait we got one! However, with a crappy RoE which makes them unbearable and pro zerg. If only there was a suggestion to fix the pvp zone... Oh wait, there is one! And only 90+ players voted... Hmmm

Scotty has gone professional, now charging extra for his services

Dont we want more pvp rather than less? In my Experience, battles being open the whole 90 minutes helped a lot in terms of protecting newbies. Still not perfect though. With a more balanced and attractice patrol zone RoE, safezones should be actually 100% safe (and maybe a bit smaller). I don't know how active capitals are these days. But the few hours I actually play I spend around free ports or patrol zone. Now, having to dock up after every battle would be kinda annoying I think. Maybe a little realistic yes, but battles in this game are sped up anyway. An engagement wouldnt just take 30 - 90 minutes but several hours. I can also see some mechanic issues here. Due to the existence of OW and battle instances, we already got the revenge fleet phenomena. Even if the battle is fair, you can just kite and wait til your mates outside have assembled a net, while profiting from the OW speed boost. That suggestion with a fatigue timer which lowers effectivity would boost such behaviour even more.

Can we try that? I challenge you to that battle setup. You and a friend bring a prince and privateer. I will take a xebec.

IMHO, two little tweaks would make the general game experience with the current DLC spam more bearable. Dont allow DLC ships in PBs Extend redeem cooldown to approx 72 or 96 hours Longer cooldown with dlcs not being allowed in PB wont lead to pbs only being winnable with dlcs. Carribbean is too crowded with them at the moment. Diversity is in danger. :0)

I guess the idea does make sense since realistically you wouldnt know the exact time of an attack and prepare for it (which we currently have). 1 hour join window would simulate that a bit. Probably wont see the same amount of screeners we got now, as the attacking fleet wont be on a silver plate anymore with an inbuilt cooking timer to know the exact al dente point to go at them. But probably also has to do with the fact that defending in general is way more convenient that attacking. Grinding 4 missions for each port battle a day earlier, and then having to sail there again... Too much effort at the moment I think.

Option to make NPCs in OW remarkably different than player ship, so we don't have to click on every single ship every time to find out it's just an NPC. E.g. option to make their sails red in OW; transparent ship models; a special icon above the ship; .....