jodgi

If that was "I've spent hours getting fights" you'd have a perpetual source of spitzenklasse end-game content. Remember PvPJebus... "And he who gets to drink PvP, shall never thirst again."

4.17

And I'm very thankful for it. There are some people like Malachy and Tommy Shelby that really enjoy the hunting aspect. I will miss the hunting aspect of OW too, but some "can't live without it". They desperately want OW to be a PvP place. I feel for them. Here's what I think, based on my experience from Sea Trials up to now and extensive forum reading. I need to throw in experience from a select few other games and stats from EVE servers. Ok... These guys: Will never be happy, there will always be issues. Either they can or can't hide in secure areas, the economy doesn't work, they lose their stuff, they exhaust the PVE content, it's too easy, it's too hard, inflation, stagnation... There is a metric ton of posts in this forum about their woes. These two: are really easy to please in principle. Many games do this; Large and open map, pvp hunting and landgrab. One online game that I know of has done this for the last 18 years! (beating EVE in longevity, mind you) I understand you want it all to work, rediii, that's fair and I feel no need nor have any reason to bash you for it. But it won't happen. Surely, you don't imagine NA could make it all work better than EVE? So you're stuck with an abysmal PvE/PvP ratio that will never please any pure-pvp players as your best possible scenario. Maybe it's best to throw out the pure-pvp'ers as hopeless cases from the eco-OW and try the moon landing of pleasing the other groups? I thank the pig cloud for Legends.

Based on your forum profile "birthday": You never did get to test 10 (or was it even 20?) minute open battles?

You don't want as many players as possible in OW? Maybe the so-called "hardcore PVP'ers" is a tiny group. But we would like to include as many as possible into the group "People who would like to PVP without getting fun-taxed for it". We're very inclusive and we want as many as possible to have as much fun as possible. I wish the eco-fans were as nice as us...

Pretty much all players like to fight. Economy makes all but everyone super timid. You need rewards and whatnot to go fight. Whomever that loves eco; deal with it.

This would be so beautiful!

Oh, my sweet summer child... I support forever open instances. Post EA players have no way of knowing what will happen (it seems). We would prolly resolve this issue quicker by letting new players experience what eco mindset + ganking inclination + break between OW and instances + open instances did, does and will do. <whisper> Just do it.

Dunno about weak but I know something weird... You gather a bunch of players who wants to fight. Then you introduce a mechanic that makes everyone default to not wanting to fight. Next you start complaining that you need a mechanic on top of previous mechanic to reverse the former mechanic's effect. Yes, yes... "It must matter!" You've made your bed, why complain when you have to sleep in it?

Cool, those would be German origin words? We say the same "vant, stag and akterstag" in Norwegian.

When OW first launched your quote was the rationale or design idea behind multiple duras. The quote in my sig is from the same period after a test of single dura ships. The focus from the start was to make a PvP centric game. I agree with the eco boys when they say that multiple duras doesn't make sense for the economy. PvP priorities held the economy hostage, and God saw that it was good. There was a snake in the PvP garden and you know how that story goes... PvP was cast out into the wilderness by the snake Eco. The garden was declared a safe zone and was renamed PvEden. The snake made everyone toil in the dirt by the sweat of their brows to serve his purpose, PvE and eco grind as he named it. The snake hated the beautiful thing God had created, PvP. God had created PvP so players could have fun and be fulfilled. The snake had come to steal, murder and destroy God's divine intentions for player-kind. He whispered in their ears: "You don't really want to fight, do you? Think of all the hard work you will have to suffer if you lose. God made PvP to make you suffer. Stay here and grind my little bot demons, I will give you rare loot drop upgrades to protect you from the evil PvP. They will enable you to run, hit harder or shield you from harm. Eco makes stuff matter." Soon the snake Eco had enslaved the entire server with his perverted lies. ... There was s cry from the desert, "PvP Messiah will come to set you free. He will cast away the snake Eco and enable you to play for fun." And he said unto them "PvP is fun, PvP is life. Turn away from your life of boring eco activities and joyless bot grinding and do PvP unto your fellow player." This is the PvP gospel according to jodgi. I thought it'd be good for you to know who your real enemy is, Malachy. I see you fighting the good fight, just don't lose sight of the root of the problem. Today PvP is held hostage by eco. #PvEvil #PvEnslaved #breakEcochains #PvPsaves #BeAllYouCanPvP

It's obviously not Malachy that's afraid of losing pixels, but rather almost everyone else. That leads to a major cooldown of pvp; Few people look for it, few people welcome it, few people take risks, all pvp'ers get the blues.

This is ok. I disagree.

I'm interested in why...

I seriously doubt that. It's mostly new-ish guys from after EA. Just pretend for a moment you made this game... ... Some players say that the game caters too much to pvp'ers and normal players who aren't protected or helped quit in frustration. Some say that there isn't enough PVE content and people would continue to play if they just had pve stuff to do. Some believe if the eco was deeper and more meaningful (whatever that means?!) more people would stay. Some say they eventually get bored of pve and eco and the game needs to revolve around pvp for them to stay. Some people get motivated by rare loot drops to keep going back into OW, others stepped back because of it. Some people say sailing takes too long, others say it's the slow feeling of the age of sail that makes them stay. Some players want forever open battles and different forms of reinforcements, others want wysiwyg ow hunting. ... The above is nowhere near a complete list of the different opinions floating around here. How would you know the good bits from the bad? I know what I want and you know what you want... I guess? I can get behind your main principles of more fun and less boring grindy stuff. You're a bit foggy about how to achieve that; You seem to want solo-ish pvp. Great, me too. But you want open battles and reinforcements beyond the time/space limits of the OW battle instance? In my view that's one of the most clan and big group enabling feature you can have, solo and small group play is threatened by such (ofc, imo). Now, say what YOU want all you like. I do. It's tiring when you pretend to know what works for everyone else: I would have a hard time motivating myself to play your idea of a perfect OW.

lel, you're on a roll, bud. Make your hardcore server without eco and I'll join you. Nothing can ever be hardcore with eco.

This was one of the main factors to me letting OW pvp go. Not mad... ok a little, but mostly broken hearted. It's a design thing. It's the main drive to all eco, mods are. It makes me sad that ships are an eco afterthought and that ship crafting is completely eclipsed by mods. It's the PVE mindset. They want to be razzledazzled by loot drops of rare stuff, they love the fake feeling of accomplishment. They will say that MMO's need it but they're perverting the facts to align with their subjective whim. Maybe most MMORPGs have rare loot drops from PVE and absolutely need them? Just watch them redefine "hardcore" and "carebear" in this and your other recent topic... Multi duras won't fix much, Malachy. I do approve of your recent politically incorrect and abrasive topics. I used to think that "yea, people can grind bots all day for all I care, no skin off my nose"... Now I think that the two mindsets can't coexist; Either pvp'ers chase away eco/pve'ers with their ruthless and evil ways or the pve way takes over almost completely. Maybe it's smart? I mean, it's easy to make a slot machine junkie complacently happy, just let RNG give him something shiny every now and then and he stops questioning his existence. pvp'ers - mostly gone rvr dudes - mostly happy(?) pve'ers - mostly happy. Would be happy if they had more and more and MORE content.

Thanks for the heads up. There are a few, pretty much, pure pvp players still in OW. I don't know how many but I'd argue they are probably something like 1% of the server pop. Almost everyone I know or knew aren't playing anymore because of the pvp situation. I don't really know any part time pvp'ers or pve'ers though a few rvr dudes have snuck into my circle of aquaintances When OW was first released it was easier to find a fight than it is now with ten times the numbers. The first group of players set loose in OW were predominantly pvp focused players. We still "had to" pve grind for rank and a little cash, but the point of being there was pvp. I'm glad you enjoy the "not black and white" situation with the inevitable low rate of pvp availability.

<stifled giggle> We'll talk later about NA:L, "simple shooter crowd" and sufficient population.

No safe zone has been tried. It is believed it made server pop go down since pve'ers, new and old, were chased away. I have no idea if that is really true. I don't care much. As long as we have eco and pve OW will be a 10/1 ratio pve/pvp thing however we strain ourselves to fix it. Protection or not isn't the real issue, people not wanting to fight is the issue. Eco will forever block us from reaching a critical mass of pvp willing players. Some people think OW needs a lot more PVE content, then everything will fall into place. Yes, PVE'ers will be distracted for a finite amount of time.

What you want, Malachy, is impossible with an economy. Even in an OW without economy it wouldn't be a perfect pvp world. There would still be ganking, running and griefing. As a mind experiment there would be a drop in players initially as those who like eco/pve changed server or quit. I bet there would be more PvP fun even with lower server pop. I actually think it would be easier to maintain higher numbers when it's clear that "this game offers sailing ships PvP, RvR and nothing else".

Think of it this way: Are you sure you want to "empower" such a small group of individuals to ruin your experience? Report, ignore and continue to have fun with the rest of us. We tried without circles in Sea Trials and that caused more grief with running and kiting. Timo, don't let the bastards grind you down.

Haven't the slightest clue, I'm a sailor not a soldier.

UG was before Naval Action. I love them for making Legends.