jodgi

lel je suis carebear

My point exactly.

The Rakers and other PVP oriented players have the the same "experiment". Over the period the OW has been a thing the result are the same as yours. Still a small sample, but statistically significant. Most real sciences do the same with extrapolating smaller numbers over the entire population, perfectly valid scientific method. Hence the urgency of my PVP nagging. Unless we do something with the detrimental 5 minute timers and the perception of loss we might end up with a game where PVP, and with it loss in itself, is only a theoretical part of the gameplay.

Except the competitive part.

But you'd never be rude, like him, would you? His offense was: "but he didn't say why" You know what you said. Let it sink in.

Don't laugh at me, it's a base need I have next after breating air, food and sleep. Thank you for your contribution. Yes, and they listened to the massive uproar from the legion of posters wanting 1 dura ships. They made it so some ships were only available with one dura. Remember what happened?... Statistically speaking nobody wanted to sail the 1 dura ships. Strange, isn't it? Look at my sig for "proof", you put so much emphasis on proof and truth. Beagle, please! I like you, no, I think I love you. But know what you're getting into. Nine out of ten times something tedious is suggested or defended, posters use EVE as proof it needs to happen. They say "EVE" like it's the name of The Lord. So when you come waltzing in here saying things can be done to avoid tedium and boredom and the result might be better than EVE, you might get quite a bit of attention from the angry young men. Is this how discussions work?

This would take away some of the port clicking and repetitive meeting up. I also look forward to the first drama where some officer is tired of his clan's shit and leaves with their money. A source of entertainment from other games.

True and when things are balanced both sides are provided for and allowed to have their own fun. Thats why I'm here and say things that obviously annoys some people, to help find the right balance. I have my faults too. When I get riled up I usually make jokes that are too colorful for some. You want some to "cut the BS" and use "real arguments" or else you want moderators to silence those you disagree with. Is that how discussions work where you come from? If a minority speaks up about how they view things (and in our case, we're simply branded a minority by those who disagree with us) you want them to submit to the majority view? Is that how discussions work where you come from? I've seen more thorough explanations and follow-up elaborations from OP than from you. Honestly, your contribution is mostly yelling and bullying. Is that how discussions work where you come from? ... edit: What about me, then? Would you say that to me? OP obviously knows a lot more about eco stuff than I do, as I've been able to avoid eco games up until Naval Action trapped me in. Actually , why even say things like that at all? "Pathetic"... "how little you know"... Is this a thing for you guys?!

Except those you actually want. Thank you for your contribution. The crafting system will also benefit long term players not casuals because the best stuff if kept for friends and "winning the war". I craft, level 34 now. It's not gameplay. Satan, is that you? Thank you for your contribution. Thank you for your contribution. ಠ_ಠ

This is accurate and I'm not joking. From surp and up this is how ships have been treated. No one wants anything but golden ships. Most of the active players with access to a crafter if running around with golden ships now. I believe I've seen admin comment they're considering doing something with the color scale since we see it as either or anyway. Anything less than top quality is built for grinding purposes. Actually, it's either grey or golden.

Had a guilty pleasure chuckle at that.

Exactly! It's like that with most players in this game. I think the perception of loss in spite of income and expenses, which are fine, is the main explanation for the habitual running we see and the often poor quality of fights. If you have a better explanation, do tell, and I'll start focusing on that. I've seen frequent and fun fighting in other games without loss. I've never heard complaints from those other games, some of them with RvR, that fighting is meaningless without loss. Not even once.

I hope I was pretty clear about why I'm doing crafting this time? I guess you could say I'm complaining, but I tell the story so that all those players who came for the action and not boring economy activities may know they're not alone. I'm making an act of resistance against the eco lobby who never suggest anything to make things simpler and less time consuming. Should the economy ever really work one day, if I'm easily able to buy golden ships with the useful built-ins and useful golden upgrades at a price that matches material costs plus a reasonable percentage, then I can drop crafting entirely and completely. Until then I'll try to keep myself motivated to help supply my friends so that they are not held hostage by the economy dudes. I don't want money, I want fights. Do you find entertainment in staring at your screen while your trader goes gerade aus for close to an hour so you'll have stuff to secure clicking the next day or two? I'm wired to avoid boredom, not embrace it.

TIL: Eco players are now called "hard-core" (/ω＼)

It's not realistic to wish for unlimited resources.

I feel for you. If I wasn't "forced" to grind the crafting ranks, I wouldn't mind a cutthroat eco so much. If I could just make the ships I wanted with the materials I was able to find or outbid to get, it wouldn't be so frustrating. Gotta keep those labor hours hot. It makes the eco/crafting a painful experience.

This last page has been a joy to read. Even those posts I personally don't agree with, thanks, all of you. I don't care what they do to eco, dura or whatever as long as OW PVP is a thing in this game. I've done silly, silly things in this game to get me some PVP. Turns out a frigate is afraid of a leeward surprise and a trinco runs from a lone frigate if they see that a player controls the little thing. "Documentation" can be found elsewhere within these forums. Some posters say: "The risk makes it exciting and fun" Ok, no argument there. But do they run or do they engage in an exciting fight? Does their excitement translate into exciting PVP activity or running? The economy needs loss, they say. There is no loss in PVE so the economy needs PVP. PVP is heavily impaired by the fear of loss. At what point does the loss mecanic become the economy's biggest enemy?

Sorry, wall of text incoming... Not crazy... or I'm crazy too... Wait! That is no consolation. Before I begin: I don't hate eco in itself. It's wonderful that players come to this game for eco, we're all different and enjoy different things, this is by my definition a good thing and should be celebrated. When crafting first came I started, blue eyed, like everyone else but stopped quickly because it took a lot of time, gold and was boring in the extreme. Later on when I was Commodore and filthy (2-3m banked gold) rich they launched easy teleport, we could teleport our character (not ships) without limit between outposts. I was level 15 in crafting because I had slaved for our "dedicated" crafters, so I thought I should learn what crafting is about to be able to contribute with feedback and just know what they were talking about in general. Crafting was ok back then simply because you weren't forced to spend accumulated hours hauling stuff. Because of easy tp we could teleport to far off places and spread the contract competition widely so everyone could get hold of what they needed for the clicking. It took a little bit of time, but not too much so I thought "this wasn't so bad after all!?". After the clicking was done we could tp back to civilization and try to find a fight or join a PB. Back then you could have your cake and eat it too. Then teleport took an arrow to the knee, then deliveries were beaten with the ugly stick. To do eco and crafting now you have to spend a considerable amount of time displacing virtual seawater doing nothing. I came to the same conclusion as you, Justme, that in order to have access to the true frigate and SOL endgame, you need pimped up golden ships with golden upgrades (A few things liberally implied, but hey!). So I decided that I would endure the crafting grind this time to unlock the full Naval Action gameplay for myself and friends. Based on what could be misleading alpha and EA environment I don't trust the economy to provide the competitive stuff to anyone. I've never seen the useful golden upgrades in any shop, nor heard of it. Those and the ships we really want are given to friends or clan members. RNG and eco drudgery simply make them far too valuable. You may spend the time and gold to click out 20 golden connies, but those that come out as crew/speed, build/speed or more importantly 3/5 slots you either keep yourself or give to friends. The suboptimal golden ones you might sell openly, but I don't believe there has been much of that either. I'm level 34 right now and can command 200 sailors, that gives an indication of how much time I've spent afk sailing vs. bullying bots. I guess I'm casual+ in terms of how much time I spend in the game so my crafting level reflects that I've received a lot of help from my associates, far more than 1 million gold plus various resources and materials. I also always seek to pay my way out of painful situations, so while everyone were screaming for iron and fighting over oak at 200-450 gold per log, I was out emptying untouched ports of 5k logs and more iron at a discount with a second account. This is insane. When the angry young men show up here to kick my teeth in, they need to address me as a hardcore eco player, because that is what I have become. Since they took away easy tp and easy deliveries I haven't enjoyed a second of it. I'm dragging my balls through broken glass because I know all grinds end. The only highlight is when I hand a golden frigate to one of the Rakers, the smile on their bright young faces when they pull out in their first real ship gives me some consolation. When they ask me: "Why did you do it?". I'll say: "I did it for you. I did it so that you wouldn't have to.". To those of you who are still awake, I'll add this: It's interesting that I personally know of three "dedicated" previous crafters, some of them even leading crafters from our third grind, who are either not crafting at all or doing it very casually. I won't name them. I'll leave it to them to join in or pass any discussion about the fun in crafting, this because of the angry young men who tend to insert themselves into discussions where I speak my mind. Personal note to Justme: If you setup outpost in La Mona I can get you the stuff you want. Hit me up on Steam (jodgi, duh) and I'll give you a golden shower (giggles). Anyone's free to join the Rakers too, all we ask for is willingness to learn. This entails a bruised ego and some amount of pain and, as we have learned, this is not for everyone. You can be a filthy casual shitter as long as you're willing to get better. This fills me with hope and is exactly why I decided to do the crafting bit this time. I hope and think you're right. btw, pvp loss has never driven any replacement demand is his game so far. And I don't think it ever will. Do you want the blue or the red pill?

This could be terrific ironical satire about self appointed and abrasive "hard-core" players. Say it is so...

So much sass.

Yes, we should really do something to enable big ganks.

Funny thing is, many "hard core" players don't want to sail santis. Imagine that! SOL and line-fighting doesn't take much skill to do adequately.

Cool idea. It takes a lot of work to get it right, though. Trinco's speed is balanced with severe heel making her very frustrating for players with low to decent manual sailing skill. So it probably needs to be something other than plunking in an upgrade and get an auto OP ship. It would be great tho. A perfectly logical and realistic player skill multiplier. Could be used on the frigate vs. IiiBelle too. Make the belle the comfortable low skill floor choice and the frig more demanding on players. Is it wise to take away the auto skipper's ability to hit max speed? And so on...

Don't you ever tire of trying to chase me away? I'm in both ships and tanks, but the fighting in Naval Action (when it happens) is just so great so you'll have to deal with me and my politics.