Question for Devs about friendly fire - rules clarification

[Puppet]

So a couple house keeping questions.

If me and a couple clan mates start a fight with traders brig and we plan to capture it but some other player of same faction comes in and is trying to sink said shop or keeps running his ship in between our boarding ship to stop the boarding action what recourse do I have? We can't sink him because green on green isn't allowed. We can't keep him from joining our battles. What are to do except get griefed. With the current rules that are supposed to stop grieved you've given them help.

Another note. My clan has 25 mercury and we head to a port battle with the flag we bought. Random players come along without us inviting them. We pop the port battle and everyone starts joining but a couple of the randoms get in leaving a few of our clan members out. We can't sink them or force them out. We can't lock it so only clan members or friends can join. What recourse do we have towards this type of griefing.

Thanks in advance Devs. The game is great and I look forward to all the future improvements.

As for my concerns. It would be nice to have a couple settings so only clan, clan and friend, clan ally friend, or anyone can join instanced battles like pve and port battles.

Or at least give us a kick button which while annoying would also solve a lot of issues.

[Justme]

Kick button would be abused just like in every other MMO they are in.

[ove bababoke]

Yeah, looks like clans do not have much senses.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

If someone is intentionally denying you boarding or interfering with same, screen shot and use Tribunal.  Take enough screen shots that it's obvious what they're doing.  In my personal opinion, intentionally ramming a friendly with a mind to prevent them from boarding is green on green damage and should be actionable.  If they're shooting your target despite you asking them to stop, well, that's unfortunate.  There is no current rule against that.

 

Port Battles are not meant to be dominated by a single group.  Do your best to get everyone in, but be aware that everyone has the right to access content and some of you may not get in.  In that case, use the extras to deny potential defenders access to the instance by blockading it.  There's more than one thing that needs to be done, and a coordinated group should be able to find more roles than just being inside the battle.  Going to a port battle is not griefing, they're open to everyone.

 

Kick buttons, as mentioned, are too open to abuse.

[Puppet]

The kick button would only be given to the person who iniated the port battle or combat. Not like Bob who joined third could kick everyone out.

So a clan works their butt off to get all the required ships, practice line formation and such, buy the flag, plan and strategize and their told to bad so sad anyone can piggy back on your hard work and potentially ruin it. Sounds like a bad philosophy that will end up turning off Clans.

Why are port battles open to everyone. Everyone didn't pay on the flag. Port battles are THE clan vs clan draw right now mechanic wise. Aren't small and large battles the open to anyone and all feature. That seems like a bad philosophy to adopt for a game.

As for your first paragraph Henry wouldn't that create alot of he said she said. How does one determine if said vessel is your target or their target. What if one person wants to sink it and another capture it. Does the person who initiated the battle get priority in that situation? Just seems like unneeded drama and grief potential to me.

I can tell you right now what will happen if it becomes a problem with our port battles. We will open up another Nation and recruit a secondary fleet. Then we will sail around together and use the other fleet to kill the randoms. Players will find solutions to problems but is this really what we want to see. Much better just to allow us to select who we would like to join us in battles.

You wouldn't have Captains disobeying the Admiralty during this time going into other fleets engagements. Think what would happen if US fleet one went to take Port X and random Captains tagged along with permission. They would be stripped of command. Ship taken away. Court martial ed.

Henry is that your opinion or the stance from the Devs that you wrote?

[maturin]

A kick button would be really handy when I get ganked. Just have my teammate Kick me out of the fight. Free lifesaving teleport!

[Puppet]

You'd only be able to kick people within the start timer of course not after the fight starts and not be allowed back in. I wouldn't normally respond to troll post like that but someone probably take him serious. Come on people of course you wouldn't be able to do that. It blows my mind some of the statements that are written on here. Then again welcome to the Internet I guess. Can we keep this to a constructive discussion.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Puppet

[Sir Texas Sir]

Sorry the kick button or locking to one clan in Port Battles can get very abusive.  I seen whee mega clans tend to do all the battles and lock every one else out cause they have recruited all the good players and get all the rewards cause they won't let any one else in.   This game isn't about just your clan, it's a nation support game.

[mirror452]

Maybe just change the rules like this:

A fleet ATTACKING a port has to be grouped. This way clan and non-clan players can attack a port, but they have to be in the same group, either when the flag is bought or when entering the port battle.

As defender anyone can join.

 

Edit: Maturins post is not trolling. It's a genuine concern about a possible exploit that has to be addressed.

 

Edit 2: "Grouped" means... The group is not automatically a clan. If a clan attacks and there are still a few slots in the attack group left the group leader (the one who bought the flag) can invite any random player.

 

Edit 3: Probably best to force the group forming BEFORE buying the flag. But it would need an own UI element to make it as easy as possible (So that the leader doesn't have to invite everyone personally, but opens a Port battle group where everyone can enter. And here the kick button would be appropriate.

Edited January 28, 2016 by mirror452

[LeeUK]

I don't see the issue with clans being able to create a Clan Assault Fleet, I am not even in a Clan myself yet but I can see why that would be a good thing and not a bad thing.

Players are free to buy their own flags and organise port assaults, why should they be allowed to invade on a Clans actions? This isn't the game where we have a few hundred online anymore, it's a lot bigger now, there are plenty of ports to assault and plenty of opportunities for players to join or create their own assault fleets.

Being in a Clan and working together to acheive things, funding your own assaults etc is a great draw for players to be in Clans and create a more competitive game.

Sailing all the way to an enemy port, only to have some scallywag steal one of your Clan members spots leaving him pissed off and possibly not wanting to waste more time sailing to port assaults with his CLAN that they funded.

Surely you can see why Clan only assault fleets would be a positive thing for the game? It is not blocking out anyone else from taking part in Port Assaults as they are free to create their own whenever they like, with a shit ton of ports to target.

[Puppet]

Sorry the kick button or locking to one clan in Port Battles can get very abusive. I seen whee mega clans tend to do all the battles and lock every one else out cause they have recruited all the good players and get all the rewards cause they won't let any one else in. This game isn't about just your clan, it's a nation support game.

There are tons of ports. No mega clan would be able to lock every port down. This game isn't just for randoms or they wouldn't have added the clan mechanic. I can't disagree with you more on that notion. Why should random Bob leech off of a clan who has put a lot of hard work into being able to attack a port as a clan and fight another full clan for that high level highly skilled and coordinated port battle? There is absolutely nothing stopping Random Bob from joining port battles where Clans can't field 25 or where other Randoms purchase a flag to engage in a port battle.

I don't understand the leech mentality and the I should be able to piggy back on others hard work. Anyone can get their own flag and put their own port fleet together.

What will end up happening is second nation fleets will be created for screening purposes or Clans will just go pirate cause their tired of people messing with their planned events. All the Clans going pirate or having a second nation fleet killing the randoms in their main nation to clear the field will be worse for the game in the longterm than a clan only option.

-----

+1 for the Port Assault Fleet idea.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Puppet

[Puppet]

BTW all you have to do is check out the Tribunal to see some of the things I raised in OP are a problem and happening. People sinking ships other people are trying to capture. People intensively griefing people in their faction because green on green isn't allowed.

[Justme]

Yes OP, because clans have it so much harder than solo players.

[Puppet]

Yes OP, because clans have it so much harder than solo players.

Here is a thought. Play solo if you want to be a solo player. Don't Grief Clans when they run clan events and put all the time and effort in.

[ykrupert]

Yes OP, because clans have it so much harder than solo players.

 

Here is a thought. Play solo if you want to be a solo player. Don't Grief Clans when they run clan events and put all the time and effort in.

 

 

I think his point is it's not a clan event, it's an event that effects everyone in the attacking or defending nation.  I'd agree with you more if the invasions were prohibitively expensive, but being relatively cheap and with repercussions that effect everyone in the game world I think it's good they're open to everyone.

[Fletch]

An instance represents a small area of the sea.

No one owns it ! Its not your private playing field, even if you initiate an attack on anything causing the area to instance. The enemy ships inside do not belong to anyone they are on the open sea.

If you want real privacy take your clan to an obscure part of the map or play an obscure faction miles away from anyone else.

If you meet someone who quite clearly wants to board a ship from under your nose that you have spent quite some time prepping to board your self, ram him or the ship being boarded. Problem solved.

[IronClaw]

Port Battles are not meant to be dominated by a single group.  Do your best to get everyone in, but be aware that everyone has the right to access content and some of you may not get in.  In that case, use the extras to deny potential defenders access to the instance by blockading it.  There's more than one thing that needs to be done, and a coordinated group should be able to find more roles than just being inside the battle.  Going to a port battle is not griefing, they're open to everyone.

 

In that case, please make it so that whoever joins the battle automatically "chips in" by paying 1/25th of the conquer flag's cost to the flag carrier. 

Because very often the flag gets paid for by a group of people who start the conquest. It's then kind of sad if these players can't even join the battle they started and paid for, because freeloaders take up their spots.

 

However, I would prefer it if the port-battle was simply locked and only players who are in the flag carrier's group could join. You want in? Then get an invite from the flag carrier. 

On very busy servers we will get the situation where random people will just sail to a port as soon as they see the conquest flag is crafted for the sole purpose of joining port battles without having to pay for it.

[Johny Reb]

As a leader of one of the largest clans I feel that I should give our perspective.

 

1. I'm not interested in protecting Clan participation per se. I'm interested mostly in the group that organizes the PB, be that my clan or a mixture of many clans and pugs. I think groups that organize for the purpose of the PB event should be awarded with entry into the battle first. How that is done can be debated.

2. Port Battles often take long periods of time to get organized, funded, and the fleet relocated. Being locked out of a battle that you spent upwards of two hours achieving, because a solo player that just happens to be in the area, is not on comms, has never run with your group before, and has the potential to keep the battle caller out of the fight is an unacceptable way to moderate the game.

3. I'm not against pugs joining our matches. In fact I invite them to. It is good if they learn the ropes from a group that knows what they are doing. I just suggest a mechanic to protect the slots of the organizers.

4. The easiest way would be a PB group that can be as large as 25 guys. If the group is only 10 then the PB will protect 10 slots for the flag carrier's group. The rest can be filled with pugs.

 

The balance is this: Large clans like mine, TDA, SLRN and others can often field one if not many full groups of 25. These clans act strategically when they choose to flip a port and whose port they flip. Its imperative that the nation works together so that relationships with other nations are stable and negotiations can have meaning. If a clan or group of clans presume to lead the nation in its expansion and wars and they convince the populace to go along with their strategy then the only ports that will get flipped are the ports that the leading clans choose to flip. What can happen here is that the only players that get to participate in the port battles are the members of these large leading clans. This really isn't fair to the solo player that still wants to be involved or even the smaller clans. Pugs are more likely to try to squeak in on a PB under these circumstances and I understand them trying.

 

I suggest pugs speak up. Small clans speak up. I can only speak for my group but usually if one group organizes the PB then their members get first dibs. The extras act as guard. Many times the best fights are the ones on the outside of the PB not the inside. PBs can be expensive. If you help contribute to the cause then the clan in charge of the flip is likely to guarantee you a spot without you having to sneak in. Also, port battles are happening almost everyday in every nation. If you are a solo player and want to be involved then ask about them in chat. Learn how they work and talk with the folks doing the flips every night. The more people we can get involved in the flips the stronger our front lines can be.

 

Clans make it easier to organize and communicate but not being in a clan does not make it impossible to do so but if your gonna do that then please try to talk with those that are already on the front lines. A lot of effort goes into the behind the scenes work and flipping the wrong port at the wrong time could spell catastrophe or a very ill advised war. The front line groups would be more than willing to guide you toward ports that work well with the overall plan and to fill you in on that plan. Can you imagine how bad it would be for Sweden if Swedish pugs attacked ports in Danish, British, Dutch, and French territory in one night. Their organized counterparts could wake up to a war with 4 nations. That wouldn't go well with them.

 

Every action has an opposite and equal reaction. If the US takes a pirate port tonight then I guarantee the pirates will try to take one or two the next day or in the hours following. Don't take a non-neutral port if you aren't able to defend against the backlash in the hours after it.

[Justme]

It's sad that a group of "special snowflakes" think it's ok to deny content that everyone has access to and paid an equal amount of real money for.

Got to love the elitism of some of the people here.

[Johny Reb]

I don't know why you would feel so jaded about what is being said Justme. I think the OP is just sharing frustration about 1. Players acting like bad apples and 2. a mechanic that allows a group to spend hours and resources for something important to then be locked out of it at the last minute by a random.

 

Do you really think these are such foul concerns that you have to throw around names? I don't really see where anyone is denying anyone content. You have just as much power to raise a group for the same purpose. If you ever actually did that then you would understand why the OP brings this issue up the second you find yourself locked out of the action that you organized.