Map location indicator needed. Realism

[Prater]

I like the fact that Scotty can beam my ship back to the Capital every 3 hours, but having a marker on the map to indicate the position of the ship would be unrealistic.

 

They had navigators, charts, sextants and every officer knew how to find their position. This was realistic. Teleportation was not realistic.

 

Also, we don't have to ration the food, worry about crew wages, punish or reward the crew, pull ropes to hoist the sails, enter towns by getting into the longboats... etc.

 

Not knowing position on the map is both unrealistic and annoying. It's also very frustrating when trying to link up with friends and trying to find them on the map.

 

The teleport is for people who get lost or stuck in shallows.

[Robaroo]

+1

 

Seriously the game is already a huge time consumer and will no doubt cost the community alot of players (devs alot of money). Travel time alone just looking for resources etc is pretty crazy. (traveled over 1hr yesterday just to sell resources).

 

If a marker (optional) can save people valued gaming time then give them the opportunity. Those of you bitching for authenticity have the right not to click the option.

[Balsafer]

As you get better at navigating it will get faster trading at different ports.  People gotta keep in mind this game is trying to balance between realistic and those that are more casual, what you have is the in between.  Imagine if it were realistic? You would be sailing for hours just to get to Kingston to Port Morant.

[Robaroo]

TBH..i feel like im sailing for hours on end as it is for little gain.....

[Valetudin Arian]

This game is neither perfectly realistic nor is it arcady but more importantly it is not finished, I have no idea though what would be ideal for naval actions mapping system. I do not mind the way it currently works but I will use whatever map I can.

[Admiral 8Q]

I admit at first I was annoyed that there was no indicator on the map. But after awhile it became thrilling trying to figure out were I was! It get's tense heading out to the deep sea and losing sight of land! It's a unique concept to this game that I hope they never change. Maybe a few navigational tools, but no indicators on the map!

Modern society is just too spoiled and lazy today with GPS.

If you're really starting to panic because you're lost in the game, use the teleport thing.
Personally I don't think I'm ever going to use it. 
If you have a general idea where you are, then head towards land.
If you have absolutely no clue, then head West. You'll eventually hit land somewhere. Then follow the coast until you find a town.
Find the town on the map. Bingo! Now you know where you are!

Cheers,
Admiral 8Q

[Sir Cloudsley-Shovell]

There are plenty of Navigational aids on the internet,maps that will allow you to lay in a course and it will give you the Heading and the Distance.

[VonVolks]

its good as it is, and it actually makes new overseas journeys exciting, as there is the threat of ill winds and getting lost.

 

No need to change. You soon get used to navigating as well as recognising landmarks in your areas....

[Thomas Sailaway]

I like the game just the way it is!

 

I don't want any kind of dot on a map to show me where I am, nor show where other players are.

 

It's great fun navigating on your own and set the direction yourself.

[TheBudmonkey]

I would like some chart instruments such as ability to draw on map and plot courses - 

 

 In map screen we should have A) compass watch/clock C) Ruler/ability to draw

 

 these tolls should be the very least we should get 

 

 

 Personally i think that we should have  a 'skill' based ability to plot our current location on map ( sextant and accurate watches made accurate navigation possible at sea by this era- map course and location plotting was an essential skill for most sailors in this era and its unrealistic to not have that ability in game)

 

 I think this could work if you had a location circle on map that decreases in size as your navigation skills increase ( could be an exploration based skil maybe  etc) it would make life easier and introduce another 'skill ranking' system into game which i think people could enjoy

 

 I also think that eventually they will have to introduce some kind of 'auto pilot' function into game - plot your course and tell your junior officers to follow it - i am personally already sick of the LONG travel times spent staring at nothing desperately not wanting to miss  a tiny island way out to sea - 

 

the long travel times and inability to plot location and courses is my main dislike in the game  - I dont want  a magic marker on map - it should be something that either involves real skill or is an improvable skill you can rank up with real work in game 

 

does anyone agree?

[TheBudmonkey]

This Wiki article shows very nicely what a challenge it was to get an accurate position in those times.

 

The article points to some background information worth reading and shows very dramatically how nicely the current map in Naval Action does capture the historical context.

 

I have had quite a few funny discussions with my groupmates about finding our correct position on the map within close vicinity of our capital.

The missing marker does add to the atmosphere when the weather turns extremely bad. Ever tried finding your mission or even the next island in one of those storms.

With a position marked on the map the whole exploring and adventure thing of sailing just disappears.

What is the next step after adding the position?

I want markers for all ships in my vicinity? Add their size and nation too, so I can stay on the map and never bother to actually think for myself.

 

In my opinion it already is easy enough to find out your position on the map as soon as you can see any kind of land.

The uncertainty of your position away from any land should be kept as well. It does add to the feeling of accomplishment when you cross a larger stretch of open sea and make landfall close to where you planned and expected to.

 As a qualified sailor i can tell you that the navigational instruments we have to use when studying and taking exams are exactly the same as those used in this games era - sextant and watch and calculation charts - ( granted we have more accurate watches now but not by much ) - they were perfectly capable of plotting very accurate positions ( they were fully aware of tidal influences etc)  the only problem they would have run into was lack of clear skies to take a midday position - however in the Caribbean thankfully thats really not a problem for extended days at a time 

[maturin]

 As a qualified sailor i can tell you that the navigational instruments we have to use when studying and taking exams are exactly the same as those used in this games era - sextant and watch and calculation charts - ( granted we have more accurate watches now but not by much ) - they were perfectly capable of plotting very accurate positions ( they were fully aware of tidal influences etc)  the only problem they would have run into was lack of clear skies to take a midday position - however in the Caribbean thankfully thats really not a problem for extended days at a time 

I imagine most smaller and poorer vessels would be stuck with wretchedly inadequate chronometers. Your pocket watch would be worth its weight in gold.

 

 

By the way, is an accurate latitude observation a noon-only thing, or can you sight some stars at night as well? And are there any instruments that estimate longitude in absence of a chronometer?

[la Touche-Treville]

Actually only thing missing is some charting tools on the map with a way to measure distance covered based on speed measured.

Stilll is a fuzzy calculation as winds change direction => speed of ship changes but if you want to stay in the cabin keeping track on the map, you can.

 

Add that and I'm a happy sailor

[Rubble]

Personally I would never want the dot to be there all the time, that would take all the fun out of navigating.

 

If there was ever going to be a dot, I would prefer that it was not entirely accurate and maybe implemented using some sort of crew function so it wasnt on the map all the time, but exists to give you an idea of your position rather than a gps like position.

[Leviathan]

At first it may be a little cumbersome when you first start the game, but honestly it's pretty easy to use the in-game map to see where you want to go and then adjust your course using the compass. On top of that we have free cam so you can zoom over to a port off in the distance to see the name and verify your position. I think long voyages would become extremely dull if we had instant location available and nothing to worry about.

 

If you make it an option then it forces everyone who's serious about PvP to use it as well to not be at a disadvantage.

[Tilron]

Play something else, as said earlier it's a skill base game.

Saying that there is a MAP made by Shrouded Recluse.

It is Accurate plus down the right side has ALL the ports Coordinates, then you F11 to get current CORDS.

Simple.

If not you may need to find a group to sail with to help you.

 

You play something else, in a game that we can magically port back every 4 hours and magically dock our ships without getting into long boats, magically get max crew again after a fight and magically raise and lower sails by a push of a button... Stop with this realism nonsense.... just stop

 

We should be able to mark up the map as they did in real life, they did place their ship in a location on a map and move that location as the shipped moved... That is all we are asking.

[Tilron]

We should be able to mark up our own map and save them.

We should be able to trade/sell our maps to other players

 

The no dot on the map is fine if we can manually add our location to a map and track it.

 

This game has so many features that are unrealistic to the time period already, I really do not see an issue with a marker on the map for our location.

 

Remember this is a GAME, not reality.

[Bach]

One of the advantages to not having ready made maps is that it will tend to make players more territorial and localized. In short, there is more value in controlling a specific area you are familiar with. It also gives you a bit of a home court advantage over invaders. Not a huge one but some. Not having a map makes what you do know more important.

Nothing is stopping players from printing out the game map and making their own compass notations and charts.

I think making maps and locations to readily available or easy is going to take away from the game a bit. If you get lost then you get lost and teleport home. The teleport feature is already there as a get out of jail free card. It's really not that hard to dead reckon directions and such.

[Quineloe]

Simple:

If something makes the game easier, there are two arguments:

- you can't have that, it would make the game unrealistic.

 

and if that doesn't apply, because it is realistic, the argument becomes

- you can't have that, it would make the game too easy.

 

and I wonder if getting F11 coordinates is really intended to GPS your position after all.

[FlyingRoss]

I am finding I am wasting a lot of time trying to find locations and getting lost and giving up due to having to rely on compass and  guess work, and not really knowing where I am on the map. In reality a Captain was rarely lost and logged his location on his charts. He was able to do this because he had a sextant to shoot the stars/sun. This game is about being as close to reality as we can have. To not be able to see our position on the map is not realistic to the times. If the game mechanics were able to replicated a sextant type system great, but of course this would be far too complicated. In order to accurately reflect the historical reality and for the very same reasons Captains needed it, can we please have our location marked on the map with a dot/ship icon.

honestly dead reckogning is not that hard.

 

1. At a port, or a land mass you know you are at

2. look to where you want to go

3. drawn an imaginary line

4. determine where it would lay by cardinal direction ( compass rose), ie Line goes somewhat NW but more N so just aim to the right of NW.

5. set sail and do not change course unless wind is right in front of you

6. scan horizon looking for land 

7. arrive and boom

 

 

using this technique I have sailed for over a hour on open water and have arrived with the port right in front of me. 

[FearTheAmish]

I must admit i rather enjoy learning how to navigate in this game.... it is very refreshing how little NA holds your hand.

[Admiral 8Q]

Aww! FlyingRoss, that takes some thinking, I don't want to think. 

[Hatred]

Love everyone that claims realism as their defense to not add a feature that brings the game more in line with the age in which they sailed.

 

Realistically captains knew where they were and how to get where they were going.

 

If you are clamouring for realism, then I think some other things need to be adjusted for the sake of realism.

 

REMOVE the teleport button, pretty sure at no time in the history of humankind has anyone be able to teleport ever. Pretty far removed from realism.

Make it so it takes months to get from point A to B, since you know that is how it REALLY happened. Pretty sure you can't sail from the upper east coast of the U.S to Brazil in 2 hours of sailing. Pretty far removed from realism.

Crafting a ship, I think it took months if not years to craft a ship of any notable size, instantenous crafting pretty god damned far removed from realism.

 

All you people not wanting certain features for realism, yet love all of the other non real things in the game remind of the bible thumpers that hate gays cuz the bible makes some obscure reference to it, yet eat, seafood, pork, and have tattoos.

Only take the parts that pertain to you and the hell with everyone else.

[Ghroznak]

The elitist approach to map location in this thread is surprising and disappointing. Telling people to deal with it or GTFO (though not quite as harshly, but you convey the exact same message) is really not acceptable.

 

Simple fact; this is a game.

Simple fact; this game contains many unrealistic features added for the sake of gameplay, i.e. teleport to capital, not needing to worry about food and water, being able to sail hundred of leagues back to port despite being about to sink when you managed to escape a battle. I could go on and list numerous other unrealistic features which are in the game for the sake of making the game enjoyable.

 

Another fact; every officer was trained in finding the location of their ship using the sextants, charts and stars. This is realistic.

 

We have no way to estimate our positions in the game as we have no sextants or stars to navigate by. We have faint outlines of islands in the distance and a rough guesstimation of where we are based on where we think the last port is at. Navigating near islands is less of a problem since you can just sail until you find a port, then verify with the map. However, sailing for long distances, or trying to find mission areas, or even your friends so you can actually group and play the game rather than play hide-and-seek for 45 minutes is simply frustrating and negatively impacts the enjoyment of the game for the average gamer.

 

That all said...

 

Here is what I propose.

 

Knowing your location on the map is dependent on in-game factors.

 

The quality and training of your officers (if they add a feature where you can hire crews of varying quality / skill)

The current weather.

The quality of your current equipment, such as sextants, charts, maps et.c.

 

The better your officers are, the better the weather is (clear skies etc) and the better quality you have on your equipment the more accurately you can find out your position.

 

Your position would never be a pinpoint pixel telling you exactly where you are. Your position on the map would be shown as a circle indicating that you are, most likely, somewhere within that circle. If you have a well trained crew and good equipment and blessed with fine weather the circle with be smaller, ergo more accurate. If you have a cheap, shoddy crew fielding rubbish equipment while it's overcast, then your circle would be much larger... to the point where it might simply cover half the map and it doesn't help you at all.

 

This way it is up to YOU as a player to ensure you are able to find out where in the blazes you are, or you simply rely on visually seeing islands as you sail from island to island to get to where you need to go.

 

This also provides a money sink in the game (buying equipment and crew) which is something I think the game needs.

 

Again, to stress the point... you would never have a pinpoint location of your ship. It would, even with the best of crews, be a rough indication of where you are.

 

That would be both realistic, and it would meet the requests from average gamers to have a way of knowing where they are without it being an unrealistic GPS system that breaks the immersion for those wanting a more hardcore mode.

[FlyingRoss]

I understand everyone's point in having it and not. But honestly, I have never been lost, and even when you get lost do the same thing you would do in real life in the woods, go back to a known point and replot. 

 

If anything, the ability to chart a course on your map and have it show up on your compass would solve both the "realism" and the " I am lost " factors. But hey, that's just my 2 cents.