Broadside accuracy

[B24LIBERATOR]

This has perplexed me for a while now...

 

When firing single shots you can wait and your guns zero in on the target. If you fire the shots off one by one, they stay narrowed.

 

Now, if you fire a broadside you get accuracy of within 100' of where you're aiming.... Why is this? Presumably the guns have been aimed already as you have the narrowest arc of fire, why would the cannonballs go flying off in some random direction? Does the crew just decide they're going to point the cannons in random directions when you yell fire?

 

I would like to propose that the "shotgun" effect of broadsiding be subdued substantially (but not removed).

 

Thoughts?

Edited February 7, 2016 by B24LIBERATOR

[maturin]

If you use Unlocked Auto mode, each shot from a broadside will strike as close to the reticule as possible.

[jodgi]

Do you run without Pellew's?

[TommyShelby]

Please let's not go into the pellew's sights discussion again Jodgi..

My opinion is that we leave things as they are now. Accuracy is good as it is. 

[B24LIBERATOR]

I've never tried locked sector.

 

I have an exceptional quality Pellew sight and it makes no difference during a broadside.

[Red Jack Walker]

Probably this isn't the right topic to ask this but anyway...What's the difference between locked & unlocked sector focus auto?

[BungeeLemming]

locked sector will have your guns point towards a parallel line where your aim marker is showing the distance to.

 

When you unlock the guns your gunners will aim at the point where your aim cursor is pointing at. At least the gunners try to within their sideway aim possibilities.

You can unlock the sectors to 250 and 150 which means that the cannon balls will converge at 250/150 meters.

[Red Jack Walker]

Thank you BungeeLemming

[jodgi]

I've never tried locked sector.

 

I have an exceptional quality Pellew sight and it makes no difference during a broadside.

You should play with locked/unlocked sector heavily until you get a feel for how it works. Simplified: Locked sector for targets that are stationary-ish relative to you and unlocked sector for targets that move with you. It's not that simple, though, and you need to play with it to know when to switch.

When I shoot at long range Pellews make a big difference:

[B24LIBERATOR]

locked sector will have your guns point towards a parallel line where your aim marker is showing the distance to.

 

When you unlock the guns your gunners will aim at the point where your aim cursor is pointing at. At least the gunners try to within their sideway aim possibilities.

You can unlock the sectors to 250 and 150 which means that the cannon balls will converge at 250/150 meters.

 

Maybe that's what's causing my problem, cause I don't play with locked. The cannonballs firing all over isn't a constant occurrence, so maybe me moving my view around while broadsiding is making the gunners fire sporadically?

[maturin]

You should only fire a broadside when the transparent gunnery arcs have had time to become narrow and focused. Try to refrain from moving your reticule around, especially while turning, as this prevents your gunners from focusing.

 

It's a very irritating feature, generally speaking, but one can hardly complain when our guns are so accurate otherwise.

[Alex Connor]

Gunnery is way too accurate as it stands...

 

The players with most practiced aim can fire an entire 1st rate broadside into a 10ft x 10ft target at over 1000m using rolling fire (such that the shot appears to be passing in a concentrated stream through your rigging), and even a fairly mediocre shot like myself can land an entire broadside on an enemy hull at that range with little difficulty.

 

There should be much higher dispersion at range.

[Alex Connor]

Much higher dispersion at range and limited ammo...

 

I'd love to try this, would bring a very interesting dynamic to battles. Get close or go home. No point even trying to wear people down from beyond effective range, waste too much shot in this fashion and you won't be able to finish them off even if you have the advantage in ships/numbers. Close, brutal fighting relying on skill in tactics and maneuver.

[B24LIBERATOR]

You should only fire a broadside when the transparent gunnery arcs have had time to become narrow and focused. Try to refrain from moving your reticule around, especially while turning, as this prevents your gunners from focusing.

 

It's a very irritating feature, generally speaking, but one can hardly complain when our guns are so accurate otherwise.

 

I'm not stupid, I know how the aiming system works (as I explained exactly what you're talking about in the first post.)

 

My problem is about 30-40% of the time my cannonballs will fly off in random directions. I don't have a picture of this happening, so I'll emulate what I see with a drawing. This is with little heel, fully calibrated aim, and with Pellew sights.

 

 

 

That is roughly what I'm witnessing happening during a broadside, is it due to something that I'm doing or is it a feature of broadsides to just have a seizure sometimes? I've noticed it ever since OW came out, never saw it once in Sea Trials.

Edited November 30, 2015 by B24LIBERATOR

[maturin]

Half of your gunnery arc isn't covering the target.

[Prater]

I'm not stupid, I know how the aiming system works (as I explained exactly what you're talking about in the first post.)

 

My problem is about 30-40% of the time my cannonballs will fly off in random directions. I don't have a picture of this happening, so I'll emulate what I see with a drawing. This is with little heel, fully calibrated aim, and with Pellew sights.

 

 

311310_screenshots_2015-07-10_00002.jpg

 

That is roughly what I'm witnessing happening during a broadside, is it due to something that I'm doing or is it a feature of broadsides to just have a seizure sometimes? I've noticed it ever since OW came out, never saw it once in Sea Trials.

 

Look at those arcs.  They aren't settled.  You aren't giving enough time for your gunners to re-aim their guns after moving them.  If you give it several seconds without the arcs moving, they will settle and you will be more accurate.  You have to make sure your arcs stop moving.  Just because you stop moving your mouse doesnt mean the arcs have stopped moving.

 

Locked and unlocked is very tricky to master.  I haven't mastered it.  Basically locked sector shoots straight ahead and unlocked sector converges the shots.  I usually sail with unlocked but there are times where unlocked will mostly miss and so you need to change it to locked.

[jodgi]

Naderenom is a bit derpy, tho. Gotta let it snap "on target" before shooting.

[B24LIBERATOR]

 I don't have a picture of this happening, so I'll emulate what I see with a drawing.

 

Nothing in that screenshot has anything to do with the problem other than I needed a picture from a broadside to draw on.

[AKPyrate]

If it's that spread out, check if you have unlocked at a certain range set.  For example, if you have it set for unlocked at 150 yds, and are firing at 400 yds, then your shots will converge at 150 yds (fairly close), and be spread all over at 400 yds.  I've caught myself sometimes accidentally changing the range settings and not noticing it until after a scattered broadside.  

[Prater]

Please get us a screenshot of your "fully calibrated aim."

[admin]

Gunnery is way too accurate as it stands...

 

The players with most practiced aim can fire an entire 1st rate broadside into a 10ft x 10ft target at over 1000m using rolling fire (such that the shot appears to be passing in a concentrated stream through your rigging), and even a fairly mediocre shot like myself can land an entire broadside on an enemy hull at that range with little difficulty.

 

There should be much higher dispersion at range.

 

I have just read the constellation frigate gunnery practice handbook and it says a good gunner must be be able to accurately place the shot into the target 800 yards away in calm seas. Or maybe i am reading it incorrectly or maybe it is because its a book from 1870

https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=AXlk5AAACAAJ&dq=constellation+gunnery&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y 

[maturin]

Compare a breech-loading rifle from 1870 to a Brown Bess musket from 1775, and you'll see what happened in the intervening century.

[Captain Lord Cochrane]

I have just read the constellation frigate gunnery practice handbook and it says a good gunner must be be able to accurately place the shot into the target 800 yards away in calm seas. Or maybe i am reading it incorrectly or maybe it is because its a book from 1870

https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=AXlk5AAACAAJ&dq=constellation+gunnery&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y 

 

Yes this is true, but much like the modern military qualification standards, they are done in a controlled setting while no one is shooting back at you.

The things I would rate as affecting consistent tight shot groups of multiple cannon aboard ship, from most affecting to least, are thus:

 

1. Someone shooting back at you

2. The seas

3. The natural variation in powder loads

4. The natural variation in burn rate

5. Fatigue and adrenaline

6. Variations in the skill of the individual gun crews

Edited December 1, 2015 by Captain Lord Cochrane

[AKPyrate]

Yes this is true, but much like the modern military qualification standards, they are done in a controlled setting while no one is shooting back at you.

The things I would rate as affecting consistent tight shot groups of multiple cannon aboard ship, from most affecting to least, are thus:

 

1. Someone shooting back at you

2. The seas

3. The natural variation in powder loads

4. The natural variation in burn rate

5. Fatigue and adrenaline

6. Variations in the skill of the individual gun crews

 

I would add (not necessarily in order):

 

7.  The temperature of the cannon as well, as quicker firing heated up the barrel causing the ball to be looser and thus less accurate.

8.  The rate at which you're firing the broadside.

9.  The visibility of the target prior to aiming/shooting (especially for lower decks with an enemy sailing fast in the opposite direction).

10.  Quality of the cannon (so far I haven't seen any varied quality of cannons in the game).

Edited December 2, 2015 by AKPyrate

[Alex Connor]

I have just read the constellation frigate gunnery practice handbook and it says a good gunner must be be able to accurately place the shot into the target 800 yards away in calm seas. Or maybe i am reading it incorrectly or maybe it is because its a book from 1870

https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=AXlk5AAACAAJ&dq=constellation+gunnery&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y 

 

The period of Naval Action ends at 1820, correct?

 

From 1820s onwards there was a revolution in naval gunnery, led by men such as Captain Broke of the Shannon. From this point formal training of naval gunners was introduced (beyond simply how to fire the gun), along with significant changes to equipment such as dispart sights for cannon, director fire, flintlocks for all guns (making firing delay more reliable) and the practice of marking elevation/range on the mechanism of the gun.

 

So although the basic weaponry and ships did not hugely change, the standard of gunnery was massively improved compared to War of 1812, Napoleonic era and earlier.

 

In addition, as other people have mentioned, firing a single aimed gun and firing a broadside is quite different. With a broadside the first guns to fire will blind the rest, then you have timing with guns in the same broadside firing at different parts of the roll etc.

 

So the upper limit of effective broadside fire in Napoleonic era is probably about 400 yards, at this range you might have 25% accuracy or so against an enemy hull due to vertical dispersion. At 800 yards to hit the enemy at all would be good shooting (or lucky). The Royal Navy (with one of the best gunnery standards at the time) liked to fight at 100 yards or closer, at this sort of range a broadside aimed at the weatherdeck of a SoL would roll down so that the last shots hit the enemy's waterline. Or if you fire on the uproll like the French the last shots would hit a fair way up the lower masts. Only this close was it possible to make every shot count.

 

To give some hard figures, 10m vertical dispersion at 100m range and 45m dispersion at 400m would be fairly realistic for broadside fire (and single fire should reset aiming arcs so people cannot game the system by spamming individual shots). Horizontal dispersion is not as bad as vertical dispersion, for a gunner it's much easier to get bearing right than range, perhaps 2-3 times current values would be correct.

 

I know changes like this would be a big shock, but 1) this is realistic, and 2) this would solve the longstanding problem of balancing fleet actions and small battles, because reduced effective range would greatly reduce the number of ships that can be doing damage to the same target. Instead of 8-12 ships in line firing on one enemy you'd have 3-4 maximum, which is much easier to balance with 1v1 and 2v2s etc.