Johny Reb Posted November 16, 2015 Posted November 16, 2015 I have been for 15 years now been dreaming about making a model of a sailing ship but not any model. I have high ambitions for this one. First it would be large. Probably in the neighborhood of 4 to 5 feet. The reason I want to make one so large is the really ambitious part and I hope that I have the skill to finish. I have never completed a wooden model kit to date so my experience is low. I want to make this model fully remote controlled. I mean I want every sail independently controlled and able to be lowered and raised. I want to be able to raise the gun ports and run out the guns. I may even want to have the ability to fire each cannon once. (saw that on youtube). And by the way, I'm not stuck on Naval Actions timeline as long as its a sailing ship and not a steam/sail ship. Where I need help is deciding which ship. I want to make it an American ship and have narrowed it down to the following of which I have the basic plans for each already. Constitution - Looks to be an easier build, but has already been recreated in model form a million times and is therefore slightly cliche. Unremarkable, but no one would ever fault me for recreating old ironsides. Of course I could name it the President or the United States and whalla a new ship. The down side with building a frigate is the amount of room for all the servos and the cannon mechanism but the upside to the Connie is the detail that I could add to it because I can go visit it on any day off I have. I get free airfare . Will the size be enough? The Constellation - Probably more difficult then the Connie to build but with the same positives and negative concerns. 74 Franklin - The guns would be the problem in any of the SOLs since it would require more room for the guns and servos for their operation. The positive is that there is a lot more room in a 74 for all the sail servos. Its also an historical ship that was actually launched and served time throughout the world. Independence razee - The Franklin was an Independence class 74 but the Independence had problems and couldn't open its lower ports in anything but calm seas. It eventually was razeed in 1838 I believe to a 54 gun large frigate which was know as the fastest ship in the American navy. It was huge and quite a pretty ship imo. Pennsylvania - Obviously the largest of all American ships should be on the list. It would afford plenty of room for the servos and would definitely be a conversation piece and an educational tool. I considered the smaller ship. Schooners as well as some brigs that made a name for themselves in the War of 1812 would be nice and there are some great sloops of war that I would love to build but I'm concerned about the space. So I figured I get the opinions of the community. What do you think. Feel free to propose others if you have a good reason.
maturin Posted November 16, 2015 Posted November 16, 2015 5 feet long is huuuuge. Can space for servos really be a problem at that scale? (I have no idea how it works, do you manipulate the braces using motors beneath the gundecks?) From that list, I would recommend Constellation in her Quasi-War configuration. Purely for aesthetic reasons, although I suspect our tastes differ, if you're willing to even consider the early American 74s. If it were me, I would choose a privateer clipper like Prince de Neufchatel, or one of the Continental Navy frigates like Randolph. The 1770s were a sweet spot for vessel appearance, in my opinion, with attractive stanchions and rails instead of quarterdeck barricades, and tasteful amounts of adornment.
Young Posted November 16, 2015 Posted November 16, 2015 not on your list but might you consider the USS United States http://www.modelshipmaster.com/products/tall_ships/uss_united_states.htm
Johny Reb Posted November 16, 2015 Author Posted November 16, 2015 not on your list but might you consider the USS United States http://www.modelshipmaster.com/products/tall_ships/uss_united_states.htm Thanks for this. I thought about this ship but its not in my group of plans which covers about 200 American made ships before steam came into play. I'm surprised. Until just now I didn't realize that the President was a different design then the Connie. I thought it was just a slightly larger version. Now I learned something. Ill consider it but I don't know if I like the look of the quarter deck. It reminds me of the old old old ships that had castellated platforms at either end but it would be a unique ship to build. 5 feet long is huuuuge. Can space for servos really be a problem at that scale? (I have no idea how it works, do you manipulate the braces using motors beneath the gundecks?) From that list, I would recommend Constellation in her Quasi-War configuration. Purely for aesthetic reasons, although I suspect our tastes differ, if you're willing to even consider the early American 74s. If it were me, I would choose a privateer clipper like Prince de Neufchatel, or one of the Continental Navy frigates like Randolph. The 1770s were a sweet spot for vessel appearance, in my opinion, with attractive stanchions and rails instead of quarterdeck barricades, and tasteful amounts of adornment. It may not be that long. 4 feet may be enough. The larger it is the harder it is to haul around. I havn't done anything but preliminary planning so the final size is not determined although a large model would be impressive. I figured for one sail i needed at least 4 servos? One to furl the sails, one to pull the corners down, 2 to control the boom. That would mean I would need 44 servos for just the square sails. Another 4 for the spanker, and another 8 for the jibs. So now 56 servos. I would probably avoid the staysails, then again maybe I wouldn't. And add at least one servo for the ports per side and one for each row of guns. So 60 servos without the staysails. Thats why I'm worried about room. Now that I think about it i think I could reduce that number by a third at least. I thought about a smaller ship but I think the smallest that would interest me would be a sloop of war like the Hornet. I've already built a 24 ft schooner I don't need to make another one Ill look at the Randolph. I do have plans for it.
Malachi Posted November 16, 2015 Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Out of the ships already mentioned, Randolph. Sweet looking ship and a very interesting history to boot. If you´re worried about space for all the servos, then Bonhomme Richard. There´s an amazingly detailed monograph about her, published by Ancre. For style points, I´d go with one of the lesser known frigates, like Confederacy, Virginia or the John Adams (not as built, but as the corvette conversion). My personal choice would be L´Insurgente/USS Insurgent. This one would need a lot of research, but it would also become a very 'personal' ship as a result. Edited November 16, 2015 by Malachi
NorthernWolves Posted November 16, 2015 Posted November 16, 2015 We should talk on TS about this as I am in the hunt and almost having the exact same choice dilemma as you haha.
Johny Reb Posted November 17, 2015 Author Posted November 17, 2015 Ill come over to your TS as soon as I get a chance. Im operating the graveyard shift for the week so I'm gone by 5 PM. Maturin and Malachi... I was looking at the Randolph this morning as well as the Confederacy. I think I favor the Confederacy. Its prettier. It was interesting doing some more research on the Randolph. I had never heard of the boat until this conversation. I didn't realize that the Americans had a frigate that blew up in combat.
NorthernWolves Posted November 17, 2015 Posted November 17, 2015 The Randolph would be an excellent choice, she was the first ship Joshua Humpreys help build and his first use of Live Oak. She was the prototype of his later famous designs. Btw I'm reading Perilous Fight now, excellently written.
Johny Reb Posted November 17, 2015 Author Posted November 17, 2015 Interesting. That does make the ship more attractive since I prefer one with historical significance or uniqueness. Ill reconsider. I'm reading The American Sailing Navy by Howard Chapelle. It has over 200 ship plans in it but some of them post date the game. Didn't you say one of your members was trying to compile American plans? If so, make sure he knows about this book. From the reviews it sets the standard. I imagine hes heard of it but just in case... As I was looking over the Confederacy I ran into another consideration that I am undecided about. Both ships have open midsections to the gundeck, do they not? That could prove a minor problem if I want my servos hidden competely while on display, not to mention the reduced space. I got to think through that as well.
Loukhaashj Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 Wow nice, i also had those ideas . I even made plans how to load and fire guns multiple times, when i was a kid. But if i where you i would take the smallest ship possible so your scale would not be too small even when its a 5 foot long vessel. Because of the fact that the cannons will need a lot of detailled work especially when you want to be able to raise and lower them. ( u will also need to make 3D plans for it and be 1ble to forge them) I must suggest if you never have build models before or little mechanic pieces, you must first try smaller models to increase your skills and learn that those projects can take like around 5 years to complete... (trully) What u also could do is firST build it the simple way and then after if STill not satisfied, you could modify it as you wish. I sencerelly hope you would find a way to build it and complete it, becaus there arent that many projects in this world. I only occupy myself with ww2 models and wooden ships. Maybe when i am a bit older i will do a project like yours because i already made primitive plans for it
Johny Reb Posted November 18, 2015 Author Posted November 18, 2015 Ty Louk. I will not be troubled if it takes me a couple years to make. I hope once I get going a year will be enough but I have some plans for controlling the ship that could complicate the task and greatly increase the cost of the project. Although I'm not proficient with models I am handy enough with wood projects. I've built my own schooner, and I'm quite competent with a lathe so the cannons shouldn't pose a problem for me. Running the cannons out can be done quite easily in my opinion using one of two methods. The only complication would come from the possibility of firing them since I haven't studied up on how to do that just yet. The running out of the cannon can be done two ways. First, all cannon are mounted vertically on a rod inside the ship. Rotating the rod "runs" the cannon out by rotating them to a horizontal position. The second way would put the cannons on a slider. The first one conserves space probably but the second looks more realistic in motion.
Loukhaashj Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 Ok greath! And by schooner do you mean a model or a real live one? Eather way you seem to know the art then. And u could put the rod onto a slider/s. Combining them could be an option. And the gun ports u can atatch strings so that they open up and close auto when cannons are turned out
Johny Reb Posted November 18, 2015 Author Posted November 18, 2015 I built a full size but probably the smallest schooner ever made. Its a day sailor. Its called a Bolger Light Schooner if you want to look up pictures of its "class" Its 23 1/2' long at the waterline. The doors on the American frigates from the Constitution onward are a problem. Instead of having the conventional single door that swings upward at the pull of a rope, the American frigates and rates have half doors. Half of the door swings up and the other half down. The top half is easy enough but the bottom half will be a challenge I think. Just another hurdle that makes the project fun.
Loukhaashj Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 Do it like the hermione replica, build the doors insiede, so mechanics wobt be visseble
Johny Reb Posted November 19, 2015 Author Posted November 19, 2015 I've really been considering the Randolph but I just read that it is highly unlikely that Humphreys designed this ship.
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