Ship Types

[Hassie]

Are there plans to add other ship types,  besides purely sail propelled ships? I was thinking in regards to the galleys that pirates used, as I do not believe they are in the game currently. I believe the Barbary Pirates used galleys to great success. I also think Captain Kidd used a Galley Frigate, of some 30 something guns, with sails and oars, that made it extremely agile in battle. 

I also don't think there are any Xebecs in the game currently, though I could be wrong on this as well. They often times did have oars as well, and lateen sails, but they often had many more guns than that of a Lynx or Cutter. 2 or 3 masts I think as well. I always like Xebecs for pirating in games, as they are generally the fastest ship of the Frigate size ships, and could almost always dance around frigates, corvettes and the like. They were also used by merchants when not in war time, as they sailed well. 

[Captain Comery]

If you can produce evidence that such ships existed during the era Naval Action is based in along with images and possible blueprints you could submit the request on the forum.

[BungeeLemming]

Well for galleys I am pretty sure they wont be included. Timeframe is 1680 until 1820.

The only place you would find galleys in that time is the mediterran sea. But we are in the caribbean and such fragile vessels are not made to withstand big waves.

 

On the Xebec thing I can give you this post which is quite old by now:

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/987-work-in-progress/?p=107309

 

In the background to the buccentaure screenshot you can see a Xebec without rigging ,)

[Hassie]

Yes. In reference to Galleys, I was thinking mostly about the Galley Frigate and I thought Captain Kidd had a Galley Frigate, and he indeed did, though he sank it after years of service, at Madagascar, when it started to show it's age. I guess it is considered an "Oared Frigate." It is known as the Adventure Galley, and the remains were just recently thought to have been located at Ile Saint Marie. Supposedly could travel 3knots under oar power with no wind, and 14 knots with wind powering her.

 

 I suppose my request for both an oared frigate, and xebecs, stems to, give as many options as possible for people. In the case of wars between nations, and clans, giving numerous options, gives people the chance to find ways of fighting that suits their skills, as well as what they find the most fun. Maybe only 1 in 50 people would want a xebec, but the more that can be added to this game of historical value, the better.

[hoarmurath]

http://www.algonet.se/~hogman/navy_o_army_fleet.htm

 

http://gerard.delacroix.pagesperso-orange.fr/galere/plaquette-e.htm

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galley

 

Also, there were no xebecs in carribeans either.

[Malachi]

Supposedly could travel 3knots under oar power with no wind, and 14 knots with wind powering her.

 

 

I´d love to know where the info regarding the 14 knots is coming from. Only a couple of frigates in the 18th /early 19th century reached that speed (the Lowestoffe, some of the Alarms and Livelys, Endymion and maaaaaaaybe the Renommée). But a pirate vessel?

[IonAguirre]

Malachi, don't forget the Spanish frigate Diana and her sister ships.

[Malachi]

Mea culpa, IA

 

I´m slowy digging my way through 'Las Fregatas de Vela 1650 - 1850' with google translate and my books and plan collection are a wee bit francocentric, so my knowledge outside the Royal Navy/ Marine Royale is rather limited.

[maturin]

http://www.algonet.se/~hogman/navy_o_army_fleet.htm

http://gerard.delacroix.pagesperso-orange.fr/galere/plaquette-e.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galley

Also, there were no xebecs in carribeans either.

Some American privateers operated xebecs in the Caribbean. Ultor from Baltimore, for one.

The Swedish used them in the Baltic as well.

[Hassie]

I don't necessarily think that the amount that were used in the Caribbean should matter that much either. They put Sweden as a starting nation in the game, although Sweden only had a passing  stake on St Barthemy, and Gustavia after buying it from the French, and there is no Portugal in the game, which it can be argued had a much greater presence in the area, especially Brazil. I know this game is supposedly set in a time period where Sweden did control the Port of Gustavia some many years, but Sweden also made the port a free port, and allowed all nation's traders to enter. Sugar was the commodity of choice for many of the empires, and yet I do not think it is even something that can be bought currently.

 

  So there were not straight Galleys that were operated in the Caribbean according to all known records? Well maybe not, but if there were more Galley Frigates (Oared Frigates) like Captain Kidd's Adventure Galley, perhaps more captains would have used them for how agile they were in battle and the ability to move in a headwind, or no wind. None of us were captains back then, and if we were, and had the power to do so, maybe we would have taken a completely different approach to Naval Affairs. I do not think that everything should come down to, what was used the most often, by the most countries, and anything that was more niche, or only saw limited action, not allowed in the game. 

 

 The admins want a somewhat historically accurate depiction of being a captain, where we rarely see other ships outside trade lanes, and we aren't given events from the crown. There is only so much that is known about those times in this area. To say that the governor and his lackeys didn't constantly send ships on patrol for whatever, or that there werent thousands of private ships throughout the caribbean, fishing, whaling, crabbing or whatever, seems nonsensical. 

 

 I would like to see Xebecs partly because they are a stronger, faster pirating ship compared to the other fast ships. I would like to see private merchants, in business for themselves, or their company, sailing them to earn profit selling their plantation of sugar to the Swedes. I would like to see all recipes that require Iron Ore, to also accept Swedish Iron, because if you think about it, it isn't some magical stuff that can't be used in ship construction, so historically speaking, it should be able to be used in those recipes.

[maturin]

I´d love to know where the info regarding the 14 knots is coming from. Only a couple of frigates in the 18th /early 19th century reached that speed (the Lowestoffe, some of the Alarms and Livelys, Endymion and maaaaaaaybe the Renommée). But a pirate vessel?

Don't forget L'Abenakise (HMS Aurora). And why only 'maybe' for Renommee?

Anyways, please share any sources you have, because this is the kind of information I've been hoarding.

Here is every sailing quality report I've been able to find:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-pwrC9JR7ahbkdwTThIX1VLSVU/view?usp=sharing

[DeRuyter]

AFAIK oared vessels were not necessarily more agile in battle, plus that's a lot of crew taken away from the guns. The main advantage of an oared warship in this period was in areas with tricky wind conditions or a lot of shoals and shallow water. Hence the advantage for pirates of getting into a hidden spot up a river, etc. Oared ships were certainly used in the US, in particular on the lakes and in Jefferson's gunboat navy before 1812. Gunboats with 1-2 guns mounted on pivots or on the bow. However Practically speaking for NA the devs have already stated they are not going to models no wind or light wind conditions (rare in the Caribbean anyway). Plus I am sure the oars would be a prime target for ramming...

[Malachi]

And why only 'maybe' for Renommee?

 

 

Renommée sailed 11 knots close-hauled under double topsails and 13 knots reaching during her sailing trials.

However, the captain 'was sure she would do 15 knots [...] with a good wind 2 points abaft the beam and a full sail'.

So there´s no official confirmation for 14 or 15 knots, just the captain´s guestimate.

 

And I didn´t know that there was a sailing report for the Aurora, although I`m not surprised that she was that fast as Lowestoffe was built to her lines.

 

 

Here is every sailing quality report I've been able to find:

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

 

Is this the only page or is it me just being stupid

[maturin]

No, I copied the wrong link:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-pwrC9JR7ahfkpKOGVYYUlCMU13OTFjNlRsaEVTSE10djYzR2xYWlUydXFEWDVPOEhDbW8&usp=sharing