Ships inherent characteristics.

[admin]

Ship characteristics descriptions

 

Wood types

Fir - faster ship, weaker hull

Live oak - stronger frame (+ planking), +1 class of armor quality, less speed

Oak - stronger frame (+ planking) - no speed effect

(need feedback on more timber types if they are needed in the timber qualities topic http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4636-timber-types-used-in-ship-construction-request/)

 

Characteristics

Stiffness - heel; from less reduction to more reduction

Speed - speed; from low to high

Crew space - crew size; from lower to higher

Planking - structure leaking; from more to less

Build strength - planking amount; from less to more

Rigging quality - sails up and down speed/ yard turning speed; from less to more

 

 

If you think more inherent characteristics please propose in this topic.

[jodgi]

Thanks for letting us know.

[TommyShelby]

Very nice Admin. Thank you! 

 

Also, just because someone will ask for it, you should add teak.
Teak - Faster ship, no effect on hull. ^^

[SteelSandwich]

Characteristics

Planking - structure leaking; from less to more

 

If you think more inherent characteristics please propose in this topic.

Shouldn't it be: From more to less?

i mean, it prevents leaking more with an exceptional than with a basic one.

[inferno8]

I wonder wath Teak will give as a bonus :-).
Just crafted myselve a Teak NavyBrig.
I would say more speed and same hull?

[hoarmurath]

for teak, as it is very durable, may i propose a speed advantage (slower hull deterioration at contact with saltwater), and a heel reduction (stiffness of the wood)?

[Yankee jack]

Ship characteristics descriptions

 

Wood types

Fir - faster ship, weaker hull

Live oak - stronger frame (+ planking), +1 class of armor quality, less speed

Oak - stronger frame (+ planking) - no speed effect

(need feedback on more timber types if they are needed in the timber qualities topic http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4636-timber-types-used-in-ship-construction-request/)

 

Characteristics

Stiffness - heel; from less reduction to more reduction      

Speed - speed; from low to high

Crew space - crew size; from lower to higher

Planking - structure leaking; from more to less

Build strength - planking amount; from less to more

Rigging quality - sails up and down speed/ yard turning speed; from less to more

Explorer - open world speed; standard OW speed buff

 

If you think more inherent characteristics please propose in this to

 

 

Stiffness:   I always understood this to be a ballast and weight placement issue?  (Not so much what type of wood is used?)  More weight low down makes a "stiff" ship.  Higher makes a "tender" ship.  Also, "gamewise", a stiff ship is nice, in reality a ship could be "too" stiff.   (Violent, quick rolls.  Danger/damage to masts and rigging.) 

Crew space:   Hmmm?   These ships were built for one thing........   Crew, "Creature comforts" were historically unimportant and minimal.   If you are going on a "boarding mission" build more crew space?

Planking and Build Strength:   These kinda go together.  They could all be made watertight.  "Double planking" would make them much stronger and more watertight at the expense of speed and much higher weight.  Fir rotted quick.  Live oak didn't.  Maintenance issue.  

Rigging quality:  "Sails up and down, etc"  - Don't know much about this?  isn't this more a crew quality/training issue?  

Edited September 17, 2015 by Yankee Jack Tar

[akd]

No heel reduction for teak. Teak-built ships should have strength similar to oak (but less than live oak) and due to its better resistance to deterioration either a speed bonus over oak and / or a bonus durability point.

Suggest changing "Stiffness" to simply "Stiff." I haven't really heard "stiffness" or "tenderness" used in the description of sailing characteristics, e.g. "exceptional stiffness" sounds odd, but "exceptionally stiff" sounds right. Might be wrong on that.

If we assume that a ship without the "stiff" build quality is balanced between being exceptionally "stiff" and exceptionally "tender," then a build characteristic of "tender" ("tenderness" if you must) could be added exclusive of the "stiff" characteristic (can't be both) with increased heel plus some bonus (sails closer to the wind? more responsive turning?). However, if a ship without the stiff characteristic is considered tender, then we can assume that Fine stiffness is the average, but my impression is that a ship without the characteristic is not particularly prone to heeling and just has "base stats" for heel.

[Hassie]

Ship characteristics descriptions

 

Wood types

Fir - faster ship, weaker hull

Live oak - stronger frame (+ planking), +1 class of armor quality, less speed

Oak - stronger frame (+ planking) - no speed effect

(need feedback on more timber types if they are needed in the timber qualities topic http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4636-timber-types-used-in-ship-construction-request/)

 

Characteristics

Stiffness - heel; from less reduction to more reduction

Speed - speed; from low to high

Crew space - crew size; from lower to higher

Planking - structure leaking; from more to less

Build strength - planking amount; from less to more

Rigging quality - sails up and down speed/ yard turning speed; from less to more

Explorer - open world speed; standard OW speed buff

 

If you think more inherent characteristics please propose in this topic.

 

Well I could think of some random things that could add characteristics to ships.

 

Something like say. . .

"Higher Crows Nest: Better cannon accuracy, from less to more" (Idea being your man up there can give you a better distance to target

"Oar holes: Against wind speed bonus, some to more than some" 

"Large cannon holes: Increased cannon vertical/horizontal aiming, less to more"

"Bow Figurine: Morale bonus, less to more"

"Bow breaker: Increased ramming damage, less to more"

"Larger Triangle sails: Increased side wind speed, less to more"

 

I could probably come up with a dozen more random things. I was also thinking of officers, and the amount any given ship could have, and was looking at regular and permanent upgrades. Perhaps a ship could have a number similar to those, when built. 

[BlueEagleGER]

It is not like wooden warships had a artillery director with rangefinders in the mast tops, Hassie.

Great, finaly some info about those ship characteristics, we can stop guessing now.

[Brass Monkey]

Just some ideas:

 

Was thinking the harder the wood the more labour hours to construct the framing.

If the weight of the frame affects the top speed then it should also affect the acceleration.

Were some wood types more resistant to fires initially, like hard woods, but more difficult to extinguish once the fire was established. Others more flammable. 

Dose the Definition of "a Stiff" ship mean better performance with the wind at an acute or obtuse angle off the bow.

Dose different framing offset the speed penalty for taking a heavier armament. Or restrict the cannon class or increase it for some decks.

 

Could it be possible for a ship to develop a negative effect once a durability is lost. Ie leaking corking or excessive working of the timbers leading to more leakage, more heel, Rot leading to less armour rating. Build up of barnacles on the hull leading to loss of speed. etc. Different timbers could provide resistances or more susceptibility to the likelihood of such adverse effects occurring.

[maturin]

Teak wood type is already in the game, isn't it? Does it just have no effect?

 

 

I don't like the speed effects of different wood types. Live oak construction should maybe have a very small speed penalty because of weight, but that's it. The British builts tons of Leda-class frigates in oak, fir and teak. None of them were noticeably faster than the others, or at least no one could notice the effects of different timber type.

 

Alternate idea for Fir wood type:

-40% Ship construction labor hours

-1 Durability point

-1 Armor class

-30% OW repair kit effectiveness

Automatic Stiffness upgrade of varying quality

Automatic Acceleration upgrade

 

Live Oak wood type:

+30% repair kit cost

[Catfish Quinn]

Teak does seem to have a speed increase without a penalty to hull. On my teak cutter I built, I received blue speed, blue heel, and something grey that was a minor deal, can't remember and I'm at work now.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Catfish Quinn

[maturin]

Teak does seem to have a speed increase without a penalty to hull. On my teak cutter I built, I received blue speed, blue heel, and something grey that was a minor deal, can't remember and I'm at work now.

Pretty sure that was just luck of the draw. Wood type effects are built into the wood type 'mod.' They don't spawn separate ones.

[Hassie]

It is not like wooden warships had a artillery director with rangefinders in the mast tops, Hassie.

Great, finaly some info about those ship characteristics, we can stop guessing now.

No, but perhaps they had a seasoned sailor with a spyglass up there, that even in heavy seas, could give you much better ranges then you could gather 40 feet below. And if you have seen any of the upgrades, and the percentage increase they give, mostly 10% at mastercraft, I think a well seasoned sailor could give you ranges out on the sea at least 10% better  when given a nice spyglass, and a height advantage where his view wasn't constantly obstructed by waves.

[DeRuyter]

No, but perhaps they had a seasoned sailor with a spyglass up there, that even in heavy seas, could give you much better ranges then you could gather 40 feet below. And if you have seen any of the upgrades, and the percentage increase they give, mostly 10% at mastercraft, I think a well seasoned sailor could give you ranges out on the sea at least 10% better  when given a nice spyglass, and a height advantage where his view wasn't constantly obstructed by waves.

This would be more of an OW benefit. You would have a lookout at the masthead searching for sails as opposed to fighting top where your horizon view would be obstructed by sails and rigging. Once at engagement range guns were sighted manually from the deck.

As for the wood it was really all about the density/hardness and longevity of the different types and the only speed factor would be the weight difference. If I recall correctly the British built fir frigates because they were cheaper and quicker to build (also oak was becoming scarce), but they didn't last as long in service.

[Hussar]

what do the colours represent  please  anyone

[TommyShelby]

Quality Level 1, Basic, Grey.

Quality Level 2, Common, Green.

Quality Level 3, Fine, Blue.

Quality Level 4, Mastercraft, Purple.

Quality Level 5, Exceptional, Yellow.

[Hassie]

This would be more of an OW benefit. You would have a lookout at the masthead searching for sails as opposed to fighting top where your horizon view would be obstructed by sails and rigging. Once at engagement range guns were sighted manually from the deck.

As for the wood it was really all about the density/hardness and longevity of the different types and the only speed factor would be the weight difference. If I recall correctly the British built fir frigates because they were cheaper and quicker to build (also oak was becoming scarce), but they didn't last as long in service.

I understand what you are saying. I was not trying to say that what I said had to be specific, I was trying to make the point that I prefer many more upgrades, permanent and regular, as well as many more characteristics, and many types of officers. I prefer diversity, and as many ways to play the game as can be thought of. Perhaps with an abundance, numerous great builds could be found, and a few best, with some that happen to counter said builds. I think this type of cat and mouse game for battles would make clan wars much more fun. 

[Catfish Quinn]

Pretty sure that was just luck of the draw. Wood type effects are built into the wood type 'mod.' They don't spawn separate ones.

Ah okay, I guess that makes sense, eh? Thanks

[NorthernWolves]

Ship characteristics descriptions

 

Wood types

Fir - faster ship, weaker hull

Live oak - stronger frame (+ planking), +1 class of armor quality, less speed

Oak - stronger frame (+ planking) - no speed effect

(need feedback on more timber types if they are needed in the timber qualities topic http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4636-timber-types-used-in-ship-construction-request/)

 

Characteristics

Stiffness - heel; from less reduction to more reduction

Speed - speed; from low to high

Crew space - crew size; from lower to higher

Planking - structure leaking; from more to less

Build strength - planking amount; from less to more

Rigging quality - sails up and down speed/ yard turning speed; from less to more

Explorer - open world speed; standard OW speed buff

 

If you think more inherent characteristics please propose in this topic.

Updated ideas

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4636-timber-types-used-in-ship-construction-request/?p=133291  

and    

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4636-timber-types-used-in-ship-construction-request/?p=133296

[Crankey]

Ship characteristics descriptions

 

Wood types

Fir - faster ship, weaker hull

Live oak - stronger frame (+ planking), +1 class of armor quality, less speed

Oak - stronger frame (+ planking) - no speed effect

(need feedback on more timber types if they are needed in the timber qualities topic http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4636-timber-types-used-in-ship-construction-request/)

 

Characteristics

Stiffness - heel; from less reduction to more reduction

Speed - speed; from low to high

Crew space - crew size; from lower to higher

Planking - structure leaking; from more to less

Build strength - planking amount; from less to more

Rigging quality - sails up and down speed/ yard turning speed; from less to more

Explorer - open world speed; standard OW speed buff

 

If you think more inherent characteristics please propose in this topic.

 

A little worried about MAGIC sneaking in the back door here on a couple of points.

 

Explorer. I really think this needs rethinking.

     You are giving a serious game advantage with no negatives.

     A lot fewer crew, long range stores so heavier ? would seem to me to have the adverse effect and slow the ship down.

Suggest: Explorer =  Build a spotting platform at the mast heads (Not unkllike the whalers had) increasing your spotting range in the OW whilst also severely increasing the Heel effect of the ship.

 

 

Crew Space.

     Sailing vessels were already economical with ship design and crew space. 18" was allowed per man for a hammock with 2 watches sharing the same space.  With High Morale and a famous ship it may be possible to cram extra crew and use a 3 watch system perhap.

Suggest 1: Famous Ship rather than crew space. Higher recruitment numbers.

Suggest 2: Crew Space, something else would have to be taken off of the ship to make more crew space. eg a pair of cannons etc

 

 

Rigging Quality

     Is as someone else posted, crew and officer quality. Not quality of the setup leaving the shipyard, as the naval boats would have their masts, yards, standing and running rigging setup by  its own officers.

     This should be one for your officer introduction and crew ability. (Pressed, Landsman, Able Bodied.etc)

Suggest: Rigging Quality is perhaps having the best materials at hand when assembled which is slightly more resilient to damage effect during battle (Small reduction in rigging damage under fire), Slightly less reduction to speed during adverse weather(Storms). Eg stronger running rigging, less susceptible to wear and tear (Slightly cheaper repairs).

 

 

New Suggestions for your list

 

 

Add Final Build Quality as a variation on intended design Quality.  Allow higher Quality earlier to crafters with higher chances of lower Final Build Quality the lower rank they are.

 

     A shipwright and yard may have the same drawings but do they do a good job of producing the ship, regardless of materials used.

Suggest: Final Ship Build quality is reflected in small deviations from the ships design caused by different factors. With exception being - True to Drawing being an exceptionally produced example and Basic being a rushed sloppy job. Effects could vary from inherant leakage susceptibility to heel and handling effects.

 

     Luck and other factors such as Crafting level, Dockyard facilities will combine to effect the chance of whether a ship is an exceptional or basic copy of the planned vessel. Once produced the ship is labelled with its Final Build Quality.

 

Flintlocks

     An improvement on the Linstock used to apply a burning rope to the touch-hole. Effect is less delay between command to fire and cannon firing. Thus also slightly increasing the reload rate as a result.

There is a good argument for this to be an upgrade module rather than a build quality.

[jodgi]

I prefer as much transparency as possible so I wish the exploration thing goes away. 

 

This might be an unpopular opinion:

I actually want speed mods to go away. It's the first and foremost thing to use so just about everything else is secondary to it by such a margin it would be better without it.

 

To (over)simplify:

 

Since the start there have been two types of ships in the game: Those with speed mods and those without.

 

Without speedmods we might come a step closer to a game with ships of various "personalities" instead of just a binary toggle for speed.

[Spork]

I'm pretty okay with speedmods as long as they aren't to previous over the top levels and carry penalties in other areas. Incremental gain at incremental cost and all that. Stripping for speed is done and has always been done in sailing vessels. I'd love to be able to choose between a stripped down greyhound with few teeth and a pitbull with arthritic knees.

 

I am with you Jodgi, I want different ships to feel different and have differening, useful roles in combat. That point of view sends me to liking the explorer and all other attributes as long as none prove to be stupidly OP. 

 

I'd like to see more attributes, with some tied to specific vessels and classes.

[maturin]

I'm inclined to agree with Jodgi. Right now we have ships that are modded for speed and ships that are modded to be slower.

 

What if we only have the latter type? Then the default ships would be the fastest, and some captains would choice to apply mods (turning, HP, etc) with speed penalties. Pretty much the same result, without the newb-killing arms race that results in ridiculous SoL cigarette boats.

 

 

I would also be fine with speed mods if they weren't allowed on the fastest ships (Trinc, Lynx, Merc, etc).