Why I believe this game would be better as an Arena MMO

[Principe]

 

Curious as to the logic behind mentioning LoL and Dota when they are completely different games? World of Warships and Robocraft are far better examples, but I beg to differ that the game would decline if it was Arena based combat MMO. Oh and talking about being first, Naval Action would be the first one to do it for the Age of Sail genre if Game-Labs decided to go that route. As TommyShelby pointed out earlier, there has not been an Arena based Age of Sail MMO game yet so it would not be an "1000th copy" and I also fail to see how it would be anymore costly than its current development model.

 

 

If you think that then obviously you haven't played an Arena game before. From my experience they are quite good at keeping players interested. "Grind to santi" doesn't really make sense because if this was to become an Arena MMO (which it currently is not) then there would need to be lots more ships, new game-modes and features added. You are painting a picture that it would be exactly just like the original Sea Trials which is not a fair comparison since Sea Trials was not a complete game.

 

Please don't bring your rudeness to this thread. The discussion has managed to be civil so far and I would like to keep it that way.

I don't think I've forced my ideals, I simply shared my opinion which is formed from my long experience in the gaming world and speculated a little.

 

 

Yes, but I don't think you do. Arena MMO's can be much more than "only deathmatch mode" (I only mentioned Trafalgar as an example btw).

 

 

Funny you should say that. I remember the original poll for the Open World and I was one of the people who voted for it. But I actually think less people would be in favor for it now compared to last time due to the initial disappointment many people have expressed.

 

I think you missed the point of what admin was trying to say. He meant that they don't want to create yet another arena game (like LoL or WT) but with an age of sail skin. Plus there is one Nautical 18th Century Arena Deathmatch, it's alive but I have forgotten the name of it. Anyways my point is that, barely anyone like age of sail to be truthful to you and making such a big risk by getting rid of all the hardwork put onto OW and turning it into a basic arena deatmatch game is simply stupid. 

 

Yeah they're good at keeping people interested for a few weeks or so -- that's for the casual players -- but after that? Nada, no more. I have to keep emphasizing the 21st century attention span don't I? And you're a good example actually, you can't even wait for the development of this game 

 

Do try another poll, you'll see yourself at massive disadvantage. The OW offers much much more enjoyment and hours than a basic age of sail skinned arena "MMO". 

 

 

 

Most of us has that assumption by the way; the fact that you can't even wait for development process; the fact that you're simply telling the dev to abandon OW for the sake of Arena (I would be insulted if I was a Dev), the fact that you're simply thinking in one view-point -- that is yourself. Sorry but, as you can see with the replies, your suggestion won't be taken quite well by the community; heck if the dev do that, many people would quit and they would dub this game "A typical Early Access Money Grabbing Trash".

Edited July 20, 2015 by Principe

[OlavDeng2]

no, if that happened i would ask for a refund in a sec, i bought this game for the open world.

[ptisinge]

Same here, I wouldn't want an arena MMO, I would ask a refund if the OW would be scrapped for that.

 

I remember when War Thunder appeared - some people in the combat flight sims community told me that it was a necessary compromise for flight sims to make money and attract a new crowd, but that thanks to realistic modes and single player campaigns I'd still find it to be a great flight sim etc. Instead, I discovered a horrible business model hidden behind a terrible grind, and there was no way to play War Thunder in a way that provided an immersive historical experience. It wasn't long before I stopped playing it and I won't go back to it. I don't want to see the same thing applied to a greatly promising naval sim, no thanks.

Edited July 21, 2015 by ptisinge

[OlavDeng2]

Same here, I wouldn't want an arena MMO, I would ask a refund if the OW would be scrapped for that.

 

I remember when War Thunder appeared - some people in the combat flight sims community told me that it was a necessary compromise for flight sims to make money and attract a new crowd, but that thanks to realistic modes and single player campaigns I'd still find it to be a great flight sim etc. Instead, I discovered a horrible business model hidden behind a terrible grind, and there was no way to play War Thunder in a way that provided an immersive historical experience. It wasn't long before I stopped playing it and I won't go back to it. I don't want to see the same thing applied to a greatly promising naval sim, no thanks.

War Thunder is a great thing to keep an eye on, as it is a perfect example of how something that used to be good, the developers made shit by simply just the business model and then kept on digging and digging.

[Robert Danforth]

Funny you should say that. I remember the original poll for the Open World and I was one of the people who voted for it. But I actually think less people would be in favor for it now compared to last time due to the initial disappointment many people have expressed.

 

The only disappointment there is in open world is that it isn't open enough, from everything I've seen posted. There are a very small number of people who believe, like you do, it should just be combat trials forever, but if anything people want the OW to be even better and are excited about it.

 

I really don't understand people who condemn something that's not even in beta yet. There's so much more coming.

[Justme]

My issue is that I am more interested in OW than arena, but with only about 90 mins a day gaming time I won't be able to do much in OW.

[Leviathan]

The progression in open world really isn't a time killer in regard to XP and rank. It's looking for PvP that is that time killer, but I feel that most of this frustration will fade away once the map is full of people.

[Robert Danforth]

My issue is that I am more interested in OW than arena, but with only about 90 mins a day gaming time I won't be able to do much in OW.

 

I only play for about 2 hours a day during the week, it's doable.

[ajffighter86]

I'm just getting back into it (last night, actually), having not played since maybe a month before OW keys went out, and I say that it looks amazing and my head is filled with thoughts and ideas about its potential. I'm not discouraged about OW's future. I'll certainly agree that it's ambitious for such a small team of developers, but too early to judge it negatively.

 

It's anecdotal, but one reason I quit playing earlier this year was that I just got bored sailing around in circles in a shrinking white circle (I guess what you call an arena). Granted, the 50+ ship battles back in January were exhilarating (understatement of the year), but after a while the community started to shrink, I think, because once you unlocked the Santi a lot of folks seemingly stopped playing and started waiting for OW.

 

Maybe I should preface this by saying it's just my opinion:

 

There's a problem with grinding/unlocking type games such as World of Warships or WT: There's not really any underlying purpose. They don't hold interest that well, and they seem to only survive as new players join in and yet the old ones fade away. I'd rather see a game that interests new players enough to join in, and yet holds the interest of the veterans in the community so that the community actually grows instead of breaking even. Can the developers pull that off? Let's hope so.

 

MMO arena gets stale after a while, and especially after you unlock the biggest, meanest ship and get bored with it, there's not much to go back to. There's no restarting and saying, 'this time I'll try a life as a trader, or smuggler, etc.' You can try your hand as a different nation, but essentially it's the same concept. Just try to get to the top unlocks as fast as you can and . . . then what? —There's less replayability, I think I should say.

 

I believe OW will extend the life of this game, if they can do it well (it is still early development). "I have a dream!" of an open world where I could conceivably only ever make it to a 4th or 5th rate ship, have an absolute blast during my career as a captain, maybe never even progress to the point of buying a 1st rate ship of the line and yet still feel as though I've had a very fulfilling game. By comparison, War Thunder didn't do that for me. I felt like there was always this 'teaser' effect to drive you to want to get to the next tier, and then when you got there you realized it wasn't as awesome as you expected and then the novelty wears off rather quickly after that. Maybe it was not that way for everyone, but it was for me.

 

The biggest problem I see facing the design now is the lack of sufficient quantity of online players at any moment, and there's not much to do in open world yet. They drastically increased the size of the world but haven't cracked the gate open enough to at least let a few new players trickle in. But it is still very early, and I understand their reasons for not wanting to go open on Steam at this time. OW does feel very empty but I understand that it is far from finished.

 

As for open world as I envision it further into development:

 

Having dynamic (ever-changing) goals, and objectives for players to work (together) toward that can potentially have a dynamic impact on the entire game world, when they include that, is going to prolong the life of the game. It's no longer, "ugh, this map again? Okay boys, you know the objective. Let's destroy those tanks like we did the last five rounds. I'll get the bombers when they spawn in five minutes from now. Oh, that guy is camping right above the flag again, he does that every match!" Please don't make this game into War Thunder or WOT/WS.

 

EDIT: I'm remiss:

 

Big thanks to OL Salty for getting me back up to date with some of the new features yesterday. It just reinforces my belief that the quality of the community is what will ultimately make or break this game.

Edited July 22, 2015 by ajffighter86

[jodgi]

Dear Game-Labs.

I promise to pay 10 dollars for each of these "I quit!" and "I want a refund!" extortionists as long as there is good PVP in the game. Arena, OW, eco, loss whatever! All that is secondary to glorious PVP.

[admin]

ROE encouraging PvP will be addressed in depth after boarding, basic crafting, and port battles. 

[Axralis]

Helloo to all here gentlemans,

 

First i want to make a plea to Moderators to close this topic asap,nothing good will amerge from it  and there is nothing to achive here for benefit of the game or its development.

 

@ Sir Madoc,

-edit offences to the OP-

 

It is clear that you are impatient and that you dont want to wait for 1 year -2 years that game is fully finished and that you and many others want to play the game now wich is not possible becouse the game is not finished. And once more i have to say that we that are given the game are here to test it and to give feedback to the developers and not to play the game just for your own fun that comes second.

 

If you dont like the game at its current state and you dont want to be a tester then simple dont play it and wait for couple of months to give it another try and this kind of post that you made can only be made when the game is full relesed and not before or atleast when it goes live in open Beta.

 

To me your post only make sence if you can prove to me and the rest of community that you are some kind of Seer/Prophet and can see in distant future things that will happen if you can manage that i will withdraw everything i said here kneel and apologize to you dear sir Madoc.

 

 

 

Kind regards to all,

 

Captain Axralis RAE

Edited July 24, 2015 by BungeeLemming
edit offences towards OP

[karacho]

lol,

all threads with a criticism should be closed?

that would be great forum managment!

[BungeeLemming]

Everyone on the forum has the same rights than the others.

As such its his rught to exress his feeling towards the game.

Keep that in mind and stay calm when you feel personally involved.

[Axralis]

lol,

all threads with a criticism should be closed?

that would be great forum managment!

I did not say in my post that all threads with criticism  should be closed and that no one can express him self here on forum and give his/her opnion i dont get how did you conclude that i was clearly refering to only this topic and his pimmary statemnt wich is if you read careffuly not at criticism at all its his way of pleaing the developers to gain what he wants and what he thinks its better for him becouse he can speak only for him self not for anyone else here.

Further more there is nothing wrong with his statemant or his plea or his suggestion its not clear what it is ... What is wrong and what i mention in my post is that it is not the time to make that kind of statemant not by a long shoot he is clearly living in distance future where he is playing open Beta or fully finished NA game if that is the case then as i said i will withdraw everything i said and apologise to him and any other who feels offended.

[Kookaburra]

We've kind of discussed that game in another thread, but it seems the we and the devs of that other game currently have a bit of a conflict going on. 

[Lady Athena]

First and foremost I'd like to say this post may come across as pessimistic but please bare with me and consider the points I am about to make.

 

I had high hopes for Naval Action when I bought the game during the Sea Trials period. It was really nice to be able to fight other age of sail ships and there was always enough people online to play consistent competitive matches that were really fun and the game was addicting. I was always aware that they were going to release some kind of "Open World" aspect to the game, but as I was having so much fun in Sea Trials I never really thought about what that could mean for the future of the game.

 

Some people are probably going to disagree with what I'm about to say, but I believe it needs to be said.

 

In it's current development model I don't think this game will succeed to become a popular MMO. I believe the Open World model is a mistake and think that Game-Labs should reconsider the model before it's to late (aka released on steam). I believe Naval Action as an Open World MMO is just too ambitious a project for the small team that's working on it. If they kept it as an Arena MMO it would actually be far more commercially successful on steam (just look at games like world of warships for example who follow this same model) and it would free up more time for the devs to work on adding new ships and other stuff.

 

You might say that they have spent too much time on the Open World and it would be a waste for them to scrap it and revert back to an Arena MMO like Sea Trials was, in which I would disagree. Everything they have done to this point would not be wasted, they could use the scenery etc for Arena maps and the game would be far more closer to being finished. What they would lose is the GUI work and stuff. IMO Open World online games should be done properly or not at all. I've seen enough games that have tried to be Open world and really failed at this.

 

I know the game is still in very early Alpha but I am not going to sugar coat it. When I first tried the Open World I was sadly disappointed and I think other people felt the same way (just look at the numerous disappointment threads the mods have locked). Yes you can say the full game will not be like it is now, but lets be honest it's not going to be completely different. There will be features added and improvements made but it will still essentially be the same. My prediction is if they follow the current model the game will not be commercially successful and the game won't have many players at all apart from a small group of really loyal forum users.

 

Naval Action was a game I was really looking forward to but unless they scrap the Open World RPG stuff I think I will my Captain hat will be in World of Warships only (that game is alot of fun, just think what Naval Action could be like if it followed the same model). It's certainly not too late for NA to change its game model. I think its good that the Devs have ambitious ideas but commercially trying to make this an Open World RPG with a small dev team doesn't make much sense.

 

The way I see it is like this Devs:

 

A: Continue following the Pirates of the Burning Sea model and have the game be a commercial flop

 

OR

 

B: Follow the World of Warships/Robocraft model and have the game be a huge success.

 

 

Mods feel free to move the topic if its the wrong section.

 

This is a very narrow minded point of view. No offense. While your arguments are sound up to a point, it's still overwhelmingly narrow sighted/minded. 

 

A proper Open World old ship sea game hasn't been done well in a LONG time. There are old contenders such as Age of Sail, and another awesome one I forgot the name of, but they are old. Hardly known by today's gamers.

 

What the game industry needs above all else is developers like Game-labs. Instead of sticking to the same old same, cookie cutter games, such as Arena's, etc. They decided to place their bet, that they could create a modern day version of old games that were mind blowing for their time.

 

If done right, Game-labs could make an exceptionally epic game. Will it be the most popular? of course not, good games, with good depth, great and challenging gameplay, and worth sinking every second of your day into rarely are the most popular. Despite the unfortunate irony, they decided to attempt to bring a game which the game industry is severely lacking. An open world classic ship game.

 

I for one, completely support them on it.

 

But I've gone off on a tangent slightly, because there's some massive points you fail to acknowledge.

 

1) This open world is in its extreme infancy. It is by all means so close to an Alpha stage, it practically is. Huge necessities, and plans they've had for it are not even remotely in Open World yet.

 

2) Judging ST vs OW when OW is at probably around 10% of its completion is beyond ignorant, especially if you fail to acknowledge all the devs have planned for it.

 

With this mentality why do anything new in gaming? Let's make every game that has to do with planes, ships, or vehicles in general an Arena style, cuz #faillogic 

[Lady Athena]

The progression in open world really isn't a time killer in regard to XP and rank. It's looking for PvP that is that time killer, but I feel that most of this frustration will fade away once the map is full of people.

 

Exactly. However what people don't understand is that people congregate near the trade lanes. Go to an active trade lane, especially the English/French Route that runs down the middle of the map, and you'll get tons of battles, and even PvP battles galore, doesn't take long to get there either.

 

However if you're like me, and some days you want to avoid potential players, and strike just merchant ships, you can go to the edges of the maps, go to the South of North America, or the shores of Central America, or South America, and just wail on merchant ships with little worry of meeting a player that can out strip you.

 

Choice is yours, and the freedom the huge  map gives is not only essential imo, but awesome. If I want go get some quick hard PvP in? I teleport back to the main trading lanes and have a blast again.

[Balsafer]

There are to many arena type games out there anyway I wan't Open world that NA is trying to offer

[PIerrick de Badas]

First of all I spent around half an hour to read this topic in English wich is not My native language as you probably notice. Thanks all to make my rainy day past faster.

The main issue I read here is that many of you are speaking about a "game".

I don't remember to have read anywhere I spent 40€ for a game. If I remeber it well, I spent 40€ to have an early acces as A TESTER on NA.

Devs could have split the ow to make us feel more in a smaller area. We could have play just in Mexico bay or Bahamas and many problems given in this thread may have been solved. But we are there to test the things....

We are there to report the bugs, and you know they are legion, and that, all around the map. How to test shallows if we can t acces them?

So we are now in a big sea and we are not enought to have really awesome battles.

It's a time question. If people there feel bored with NA I suggest you to not rage about it or how " it should be".

The games actually doesn't t suit for you and you may have to wait to get the games you want. Don t past a bad time on it, use it on others games you like, follow the forum and come back when you think the games reachs the points that were Missing for you.

Arena or not arena is not the real question. The question is about impatient to play. NA is in test, not even in beta, maybe in alpha or pre alpha.

You probably all buy games on steam tagged as beta that are not as finish as NA is. I prefer to see few whining now and many enjoying it on steam than reverse.

People is arguing about arena because it was almost finished. Consider now you acces an early alpha. If you can t deal with that, be patient and spend your time other way waiting the best times to come backs.

90% players I used to play with in arena left the games after have reach the santi. Atm 1 left since ow, 20 to 30 are still there. It's less grateful, maybe a bit more boring, but it's how it should to become the games it seems we all want.

Ty to read it and to try to understand my English ^^

[Iñigo Montoya]

All I know is that I felt playing the Arena much more than I feel playing the OW. Somehow the superspeeds and yet long and empty sailing got me uninterested earlier.

 

What do I do? I read the news and wait

[Sir Madoc]

There are to many arena type games out there anyway I wan't Open world that NA is trying to offer

 

And how long will it be before we have a fun game?

[Theuerdank]

(not only probably) more than a year, its Alpha, and Alpha is not Beta, and both are normally no funny games or usable products, and clear alpha is before beta comes. Testing the foundation of mechanics is momentary necessary, not polishing grafics or satisfying entertaining tastes. Perhaps sad, but its told from beginning by the devs if 'someone' (you) want to play a nearly playable game, then wait until its something funny to play.

If you moving-in a house before the roof is finished you should also not critisize that it is bad built, it's not finished.

So, you don't critisize NA you only showing impatience for something which is absolutely not a playable game. Probably because it will be developed for open world it's nothing for you? But there exist many other games, most are nothing for me.

[Blackjack Symons]

"In English, the noun 'alpha' is used as a synonym for 'beginning.'"

 

NA has come a long way, and there's still a long way to go. We're not even in Beta yet (which is usually the last testing phase before full release), so I'd recommend waiting until Beta - at least - before you start judging the final product. 

 

I'm going to diverge from some posts on here and point out that, as alpha testers, criticism and feedback is exactly what we should be giving. Constructive, admittedly, but nevertheless our opinions as testers should count. To dismiss Madroc's post out of hand would be irresponsible. That said, I'll reiterate: don't judge this as a final product.

 

This post presumes to know what the end result of NA development and release will be, and it provides feedback as if this were a finished product.

 

I racked up a good sixty hours+ of gameplay in Naval Action in less than a week and though there were frustrations (it's a steep learning curve if you don't read the guides ) I haven't tired of this game. At all. Let me repeat: I've played the better part of one hundred hours of a game that's still in alpha, a game I paid good money to play, and I do not in any way feel as if my money was wasted. This is much closer to a full release than any other alpha I've played, and knowing that they're still pouring their time and love into it (with conservative estimates of full release in a year) fills me with confidence.

 

I respect your opinion, Madoc, as a fellow tester, but I disagree.

 

Regards,

Capt. Blackjack.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Blackjack Symons

[Amendus]

I personally think they should keep the sea trials open. I had alot of fun and sometimes I just want to fight instead of grind