Question for the Admin about Current sail setting models

[Ryan21]

I was just wondering how exactly the current animation for sail setting works?  One of my concerns is that in order to set anything above the topsails you have to set the topsails first, sheet home, hoist the yards, and then the topgallant can be set, and so on.  The courses on my vessels were usually set last.  I dont know if the animation for yards being actually hoisted into the set position is even possible or probable.  But if that can't be achieved it would still be very good to have the sails setting in the correct order.  With a big crew you can set both masts at once, lets just assume thats the case. 

 

The order of sail setting on Lady usually goes, topsails, topgallants, fore topmast staysail, and then the fore course or the spanker, being a merchantmen Lady doesnt have standing royals, so we have to send those up from deck and they are rarely set because we cant use them with public on board.  I think even just having the correct order if you couldn't have hoisting yards would make it feel much more authentic.

 

If the only animation that can be achieved is having the yards already hoisted and the sails sheeted down, try to make the sheeting animation a little uneven, not super smooth, with jerks here and there simulating people actually hauling on the lines.

 

One of my biggest pet peeves about Empire TW is that the sails all at once just flash out, perfectly smooth, and it just has no feel of realism after actually sailing these ships.  Just little details could make this game unbelievable.   I have already posted this video somewhere else but for the benefit of this topic it really illustrates what im talking about, that its humans powering these ships, not machines.

 

[tater]

Nice vid. One thing to remember though is that warships could do the evolutions seen (both in sail handling and maneuvering the ship (tacks, for example)) far faster than a merchant ship. A warship would have men aloft on the yards (several per yard), not all on deck hauling lines.

 

Ryan, is that in SF bay? We end up taking a vacation in SF nearly every year (it's a short hop from here in NM), and a square rigger is absolutely on my list of things to do while there.

[Ryan21]

No thats, morro bay, Ca.  Nice place.  Warships were certainly faster at maneuvers mainly due to manpower, and better hull shapes, Niagara tacks like a ferrari.  On warships after loosing sail during sail setting, usually only one man remains aloft on each mast, they stay up there to kick the foot of the topsails off the fighting top because it gets stuck often, and to make sure the sail sets well in general.  Sometimes more topmen remained stationed aloft on the top platform depending on the size of ship.  You dont go near the yard when its set though, when it's hoisted its considered less safe because its not being supported by the lifts, just the halyard.  So safe practice is to avoid laying onto the yard when it's hoisted unless something is urgently needing to be fixed, and in that case usually only one man would do the job.  There were also very strict rules in the Navy about skylarking aloft.  In every period Navy manual I have ever read it clearly states that after every evolution aloft, everyone except the topmen specifically stationed aloft upon completion of the task is to lay down to deck immediately, this reduces risk for the crew, spend to much time up there, especially without a harness and some people get careless. 

 

We were all up on the yards, I just started recording the video after we layed back to deck and prepared to set, on Lady the topsails are pretty small and dont usually have problems in setting so no one needs to remain aloft.  Niagara's huge topsails had to be booted off the top every time, and I relished doing it because it meant a couple minutes of "semi skylarking" aloft

[Ryan21]

Fun fact.  On Lady it usually takes 2 to 4 people to furl the tops decently, ideal is 6.  On Niagara there are about 12 people minimum on the topsail yards for furling haha.  It was amazing my first time furling big topsails.  Also the larger and heavier the ship is generally the longer it takes to set sail generally, simply because everything has more purchase due to weight and takes alot longer to sheet topsails and haul the halyard.  The saving grace in the Navy was you had enough men to set both masts at once, usually on lady we have to do them one at a time, but it goes pretty quick becuase the halyards only take very minimal time to haul.  On Niagara you had 12-15 people hauling one topsail halyard.  Lady the same operation requires two.  Sigh, I feel like I'm trolling this forum now because every time I talk about tallships I have to write a bloody novel hahahaha.

[tater]

Fascinating stuff, though.

[admin]

We used this book as a reference for setting sails.

http://www.amazon.com/Seamanship-Age-Sail-Man---War/dp/0870219553/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393185223&sr

 

But would like to say that our current goal is fun and interesting combat and stability of technology.

Animations and some visual bugs - like sails sometimes going through the shrouds - are lower priority. 

 

PS. 

Changing sail animations is actually not very time consuming. During testing you can pinpoint inaccuracies in the current model chosen by us. 

[maturin]

PS. 

Changing sail animations is actually not very time consuming. During testing you can pinpoint inaccuracies in the current model chosen by us.

Really? Unity must be a very nice engine, or you must have some talented people. Fantastic news.

[Ryan21]

Your using my bible! Haha I have nothing to worry about then, seriously looking forward to playing this

[admin]

Really? Unity must be a very nice engine, or you must have some talented people. Fantastic news.

 

sail animations - we meant sail plans. 

 

Individual sail animations (reefing, lowering, luffing) are extremely expensive and time consuming (due to optimization) they are possible on 1 ship, but kill FPS when other ships are around.

[maturin]

Hmmn, maybe other vessels should change sails with simplified sprite animations?

 

Will there be any detailed animations that we can experiment with in focus testing?

[admin]

Hmmn, maybe other vessels should change sails with simplified sprite animations?

 

Will there be any detailed animations that we can experiment with in focus testing?

 

there are 2 animations now.. raising and lowering. 

Any intermediate positions are not current priority. Combat and finalization of the technology is what we are finishing right now. + some experiments in with the open world. 

[Marion van Ghent]

Of curiosity, to the topsail yards (and higher) raise and lower as those sails deploy and furl? Or do the yards stay at a fixed height and just the foot of the sail rises and falls?