Arcade or Simulation, the poll

[Elysion]

There are already games for that. They made it clear they were targeting a niche market and going for long term growth and stability rather than a short term profit surge and 'broad appeal'

 

The question really isn't should it be 'simulatory', its what can we streamline to make the game less of a drag with out detracting from the experience of realism.

[Kngsbrg]

Wow! Glad to see people caring for simulation!

 

One thought, though:

 

A true simulation needs features and mechanics, most of whom need space on the GUI and/or a button. Some good simulations can get away with only very few buttons, e.g. Silent Hunter III. Others need every button there is inkluding Shift+Alt-modifier! What I am trying to say is, keep the control surfaces somewhat limited.

 

I would not mind giving up certain simulation aspects for the sake of gameplay, though. After all, gameplay makes or breaks a game.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

 

 

Sorry guys, but the reality is, unless you are prepared to devote your life to the game, full simulations are not fun.  Anything more difficult than what we currently have in game is going to turn off the vast majority of player who might otherwise have gotten involved.

 

Some of us have devoted decades to a handful of simulator games and they still survive to this day. Do not ever question the commitment of a player that strives for and plays for realism. We do go to great lengths to fuel our fun. Which is not necessarily the same as yours.

 

That being said, realism can be dropped for the sake of gameplay. In any case you won't be able to have ALL types of players in the game. Aiming for middle ground is even worse so I always hope new age developers to design innovative ways to bring both world together with as little compromise as possible.

 

e.g. - NA can compromise the full realistic sail management but keep gunnery at a demanding/realistic level.

 

But NA is not even close to being a simulator. It is a fairly interesting game because there aren't games like it since old Man'o'War and even more interesting it becomes due to being open world instead of a arena mosh pit ad infinitum like the last decade "oh best game ever" types.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Hethwill_Khan

[arthurwellsley]

I guess this will be a commercial decision, and in today's day and age with short attention spans expected from the majority of customers, games tend to be "arcadey".

[admin]

 

Honestly I am not sure why the devs are having this poll now.  They need a much, much larger player base in order to get any sort of realistic results.  I mean lets face it, right now the player base mostly consists of hardcore age of sail fans and they naturally are going to be be drawn to wanting the game to be very much a simulator however, the vast majority of people who might end up playing this game, aren't going to be in to that.  Most are going to to want to relatively casually have fun.

 

 

This is the user initiated poll. 

 

We said several times that NA is not a simulator. It is a beautiful and realistic age of sail combat game. 

[Sir Cloudsley-Shovell]

Simulations can KILL gameplay.Its all too easy to get bogged down with minutiae.For me NA has the right Balance between Simulation and Regular game styles.NA can only get better when the Open World and its proposed elements get introduced.For me i cant stand the Run n Gun,button bashing games.I like to have a game where one has to think before doing as well as having a good Tactical awareness,rather than a "Super Cannon" and ships with Teflon coated hulls made out of Titanium!

[montyrattus]

The ideal would be an equal balance, those wanting a true simulation need to remember that battles often took place over hours, sometimes days as they slowly manouevered into position while balancing the weather gage, do you really want that?

[Brigand]

The ideal would be an equal balance, those wanting a true simulation need to remember that battles often took place over hours, sometimes days as they slowly manouevered into position while balancing the weather gage, do you really want that?

 

While it may be hard to imagine for some. Those people who vote for a simulation typically want a simulation. Especially the simulation crowd is typically well aware of how long it could take before a battle happened. They just have a different preference to what some other people on the forums. This discussion and the disbelieve on both sides prompted this poll: it is intended to help people realize what other people want. In the case of the simulation fans, this includes sailing hours on end and playing the manoeuvring game long before battle ever happens. Just because you cannot image it being fun, doesn't exclude it from being the ideal gameplay for somebody else.

 

~Brigand

[montyrattus]

While it may be hard to imagine for some. Those people who vote for a simulation typically want a simulation. Especially the simulation crowd is typically well aware of how long it could take before a battle happened. They just have a different preference to what some other people on the forums. This discussion and the disbelieve on both sides prompted this poll: it is intended to help people realize what other people want. In the case of the simulation fans, this includes sailing hours on end and playing the manoeuvring game long before battle ever happens. Just because you cannot image it being fun, doesn't exclude it from being the ideal gameplay for somebody else.

 

~Brigand

Sure there are people that want this, but is it in the best interests of the game itself? Pure simulations are usually a very niche market with a small but dedicated group of players, DCS is a good example of this. DCS is a great game that offers unique gameplay but it is never going to be a money maker like some of its more arcadey rivals, you have to strike a balance or take a big risk, which way the game goes is up to the devs and how much they want to get paid.

[Theuerdank]

One aspect is clear, main preferences of the community are on historical simulation game, i think for those people its not important if any sailor with scurvy will be 'simulated' as sick or not,   more essential is the entire direction of game development, and there are obvious veryvery fewer arcade wishes.

For me also, i want a historical simulation 'game', means its still a game and not an education programm for coming "real" captains.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Theuerdank

[PrezesOi]

Could use an experiment - for some time completely turn off external camera and UI (just like current ctrl+h option), then watch as 1337 hardcore realism lovers  are changing their opinion

[Elysion]

In total realism its your gunners who would be aiming the guns, you would just tell the ship what direction to point in and who they should try to shoot at.

 

I would like to look down from the quarterdeck and manually nod to initiate a flogging.

[Theuerdank]

In total realism its your gunners who would be aiming the guns, you would just tell the ship what direction to point in and who they should try to shoot at.

 

I would like to look down from the quarterdeck and manually nod to initiate a flogging.

Thats it, and if 'you' are killed, you would be 'perma'dead .

 

For that i differ also between naturalism and realism, realism is more a believable behaviour, a seems to be 'realistic' effect, (reality dont need to be relaistic, its real by itself) naturalism is the actual effect. In other words if you paint par example a tree 1:1 in details and colour, then its naturalistic, if your interpret only shapes or paint a tree only from memory it can be realistic but is never naturalistic, not a copy from nature. A realistic story can be fictive, but a naturalistic explanation may never be fictive.

So realism in a game with conversions of the 'real' world is for me ok, but i see in many games that many folks want 'realistic' gameplay for scifi and fantasy srories, for historical background fantasygameplay. So finally nearly all games are fantasy or scifi. Also fantasygames with those bazooka magic spells are only in appearance different to scifi weaponry and equipment.

 

But thats the reason i want a realistic historical sim, not a navy training programm. I want to see believable realistic behaviour still playable as game. Thats not easy to create, but thats what i want and wish .

[Brigand]

Could use an experiment - for some time completely turn off external camera and UI (just like current ctrl+h option), then watch as 1337 hardcore realism lovers  are changing their opinion

 

More or less exactly as proposed by some :-)

 

~Brigand

[kang]

In a perfect world, I'd kind of like both.  Balanced for arena pvp and such.  Then maybe more realistic in OW.

 

The other thing, if it hasn't already been mentioned, is that the folks participating in this conversation probably skew more towards the extreme than the eventual general population.  So the devs kinda have to find a happy medium between the avid fans and the bulk of the people who'll end up buying the game.  Unless they want to go niche which is ok by me too...

[swheels1242]

I am really wanting a really detailed sim experience, I am thinking currents, Navigation, Ammunition supplies, Food and supplies for crew, Detailed and living Market (If anyone has played EVE they know what I mean).

 

Also I know it is a massive ask but more detail on the damage model like dead crew members, broken cannons on the deck and the chance of snapping a mast with chain etc etc. 

 

However for those who do not want to go into such detail can simply use a matchmaking mode or something along those line just to jump straight into the action more arcade style, but open world should be quite "Hardcore in my opinion"

[Arnaud Arpes]

I'd definitely like to see this become the EVE Online for the Age of Sail. The complexity, the player driven world, the realism are all reasons I'm interested in this game. I can see myself playing it for many years to come if this is the case.

I fully welcome and support the addition of an arena-matchmaking type combat offering separate of Open World though. It would not only serve those who wish to jump straight into the action, but it would also allow for training, learning, etc. the aspects of Age of Sail combat.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Arnaud Arpes

[BigJimJack]

I am not a player yet.  However, I have been playing the new ship title from Wargaming and that one (while the ships look great) is an arcade game all the way.  Very low skill ceiling and after playing for the last few months I can tell you that I am bored with it.  I think based on the polls thus far you guys are on the right track to develop something more than just battle after battle.  Just grinding to get to another ship gets is not very rewarding, unless your a pokemon freak and have to have them all.  Just my 2 cents from another perspective.  BTW the game looks beautiful.  

[Sinbad]

Well constructed poll brigand,good choices reflecting a number of tastes,and worded very well.

[Brigand]

Well constructed poll brigand,good choices reflecting a number of tastes,and worded very well.

 

Well, I'm surprised the poll is still open and attracting votes :-)

 

This poll was created a long time ago, mainly to get some data backing up the various claims in the discussion running across several topics at the time. As with most internet discussions, opinions quickly divided themselves between "nobody is interested in a full fledged simulation" and "nobody is interested in arcade" (it turns out there is one person interested in that too).

 

What is the most interesting is that the vote distribution now is still pretty much the same as it was after the first week. By now, the poll has, of course, collected a much larger number of votes and, as a result, a better statistic confidence level.

 

~Brigand

[4535jacks]

I for one would love to see a detailed simulation in this genre since for me, the sailing would be as important as the fighting. I would happily sit behind my PC for a couple of hours in a long chase trying everything and constantly trimming my sails in order to close with my quarry. I would also be content spending hours jostling with the enemy just to get the wind gauge.

In my opinion, enthusiasts play 'games' like Naval Action to experience things that simply can no longer be experienced in real life or are unachievable for most. Therefore, a detailed and historically accurate simulation will best achieve this.

Just my two pence worth!

Jacks

[maturin]

I for one would love to see a detailed simulation in this genre since for me, the sailing would be as important as the fighting. I would happily sit behind my PC for a couple of hours in a long chase trying everything and constantly trimming my sails in order to close with my quarry. I would also be content spending hours jostling with the enemy just to get the wind gauge.

In my opinion, enthusiasts play 'games' like Naval Action to experience things that simply can no longer be experienced in real life or are unachievable for most. Therefore, a detailed and historically accurate simulation will best achieve this.

Just my two pence worth!

Jacks

 

 

This won't happen.

 

Not unless we all support NA in its balanced 'fun realism' concept. Then after it wins all the Indie Game of the Year awards we come back and ask for mod tools with dedicated server support.