Wrong place wrong time

[5KnuckleChuckle]

I have noticed something and wanted to get your guys input. By no means am I a navel strategy genius but in PVP matches there always seems to be a ship or two that sit on the parameter taking pot shots into the melee. In my opinion, this has to be the worst possible strategy if you are a "significant" ship in the match. My thinking is that once the call has been made for close quarters fighting people in significant ships who stay on the outside are a waste of space and lose the match for the team.

 

Without fail the ships are sunk at close quarters because they are over matched due to part of their team being on the parameter shooting ball. The parameter ships are then systematically hunted down. They either fail to realize they have lost the match for the team or they just don't care and are just concerned about the dmg points.....dunno. I have been playing matches today and in one our SANTI was doing this...couldn't believe it . In multiple others we had consti's doing this. Once close quarters was called and when I had a chance to look around from within the wood chipper it was only me and another guy who actually went in close with 2 of our big ships staying on the outside. Anyways, just wanted to do a check to see if this is an epidemic or just my piss poor luck? Is this actually a viable strategy (if so I have never seen it work) or is it just a bonehead move?

[Austrum]

It depends on how you look at it.  Often the first ship in is the focus of enemy fire and your game ends rather quickly so by staying at the outskirts you let someone else be that focus.  Also by coming in later, generally the enemy already has a predator's focus on another ship and not you, meaning you can fire a a lot of broadsides without taking significant return firepower.  Basically it is a "Soloist" way of playing that generally works in the favor of the soloist who is trying to maximize their individual performance.    This unfortunately occurs because there is no disadvantage to winning or losing currently in game.  I mean as long as you get high damage numbers, winning or losing doesn't matter. 

 

On the other hand, I think games are more enjoyable when winning or losing doesn't matter mostly because YOU CAN individually have a great game despite your team utterly failing.    Other games I have played, World of Tanks for example, make it so miserable to lose that just a few bad games can ruin your entire night and cause massive frustration and stress so I am not sure what the answer is.  Basically you can make winning matter, thus forcing more people to play a team game but then suffer the consequences of being on a bad team or you can just deal with the fact that solo progression is more important than winning.  Not sure if there is a middle ground. 

[ThePandanator2]

As I am usually in a smaller ship, I try to take on the role of staying outside and lobbing chain or ball at the big scary Victorys and Santis and Trins.

 

That being said, I expect the bigger ships to take on the blunt of the enemy. My role is to assist in whatever way possible, but I also want to stay alive. If I fling myself into that kerfuffle, I'll be shaking Davy Jone's hand in minutes, and I'll be less of a help than if I kept my distance. 

 

So, in my personal opinion, people with the bigger ships, bigger guns, and most of all, bigger experience, should be the ones duking it out in close quarters. Giving the enemy the ol' one two if you catch my drift. Let us little ships nibble at them from a distance eh 

[Joe]

These are the same people who like to play snipers in other games (though really they are acting more like a DMR). I don't mind others playing their way, it's cool with me. Maybe they are just trying out a new style and using long guns, it's a just a game and we have enough rules to put up with in real life that I'm not going to piss all over someone else's tactics if they like it.

Will it help me or hurt me....meh depends on how the games going but I don't like it when some yahoo is telling me how to run my ship and I won't do the same to another player. Just my 10 cents.

[5KnuckleChuckle]

I guess I just figure when you are playing as a team then you should use the strategies that are best for the team rather than the individual. The same attitude I have when I block a stern rake of a team mate by sacrificing my starboard or port armour. I'm not trying to tell people how to play just that if they are selfish and can't play as a team then maybe they should stick to PVE or duels. Ultimately for now it's not a big deal as we are just alpha testing but just wanted to discuss to see if I was missing something. Obviously I wasn't and the strategy is as I figured, ill-suited to team play. 

 

Yes Panda I agree with what you are saying...to a degree. This is why I added the part about "significant" ships, those being the larger, heavier damage dealing vessels. Why I only agree with you to a degree is that a smaller ship does very little damage to a larger ship from a distance using ball ammo so in a smaller ship you are being far less helpful then if you were protecting the stern of your bigger ships or stern camping their bigger ships. Your damage would be much better served hitting larger ships with double in their weakest point and harassing them at the same time. For Joe I'm not telling Panda how to play rather just discussing strategies in hopes that I can be more effective and maybe offer suggestions to help someone else be a better player but whether they try it or not is their prerogative.  By the way, I'm always a sniper if the option is in a game but different games call for different strategies.

[Prater]

These are the same people who like to play snipers in other games (though really they are acting more like a DMR). I don't mind others playing their way, it's cool with me. Maybe they are just trying out a new style and using long guns, it's a just a game and we have enough rules to put up with in real life that I'm not going to piss all over someone else's tactics if they like it.

Will it help me or hurt me....meh depends on how the games going but I don't like it when some yahoo is telling me how to run my ship and I won't do the same to another player. Just my 10 cents.

In FPS I like to play a sniper. There are no snipers in this game. Long range combat is ineffective. If someone is sitting at range "sniping," they are letting their team down and they aren't being a team player (unless the whole team is doing it and that is the plan). It also doesn't score them points with others or help them make allies.

What I don't get is people who get upset when more experienced players say lets do it this way, or do it that way. We could keep our mouths shut and keep our hard earned experience to ourselves and not try to help people improve their game.  But, this is a team game.  Sometimes that means helping newer players.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Prater

[Grim DeGrim]

Generally speaking, a good opposing team has 1, maybe 2, primary targets (depending on the size of the engagement). That means I can be a sniper from near to point blank range most of the time. Doing triple the dmg... Maybe even 4x if I'm using double. And I'm not taking damage either.

If I'm one of the unlucky 1 or 2 to become primary, I take my licks for the team while dishing out damage. I flip broadsides and take more lickings on the other side, and I cycle out of the battle repairing. This might use up 2 reps in the process. My opponent finds a new primary while I snipe from the edges. Once they've changed to a new person, I push back into the fray "selectively"...

Meaning I don't push right into the middle unless absolutely necessary, but definitely into double shot range... And with my choice of broadside facing the enemy (this might be my best BS, or it might be the weaker BS because I want to take 1 volley before flipping to the good side).

In short... Sniping from the edge is not as effective as Sniping from in close

Edited March 9, 2015 by Grim DeGrim

[Prater]

Yes, it always depends on the situation.  Sometimes you have to go to the edge and remove yourself from enemy focus because you have done your part in sharing damage with the team and dishing out damage, and to stay afloat and keep fighting for your team you have to do that.  Just to clarify my comments  

 

The always on the edge, always "sniping" doing ineffective fire, not sharing damage with your team, nor playing with your team, is the action I'm speaking against.  You can't get better playing that way, and you let your team down.  I had someone tell me yesterday that it doesn't matter, that this isn't a team game, that this is alpha testing and doesn't matter.  Safe to say this player was ridiculed by friend and foe alike for not being a team player.

 

And no offense to anyone, but if you don't want to be a team player and play a team game, go fight solo pve.  Obviously you don't want to play a Team Death Match pvp game so don't ruin it for the rest of us.

 

People have to get used to being a team player.  If you are not one, it won't get you friends, and will ensure that you have enemies.  In open world, you are going to need friends.  You will not survive otherwise unless you are a neutral, and what fun will that be?

Edited March 9, 2015 by Prater

[Kaaru62]

the ones that hang on the perimeter engaging at range are usually the same ones that turn and flee when their side loses and make you chase them for 20+ minutes.

[StuffinBeard]

These are the same people who like to play snipers in other games (though really they are acting more like a DMR). I don't mind others playing their way, it's cool with me. Maybe they are just trying out a new style and using long guns, it's a just a game and we have enough rules to put up with in real life that I'm not going to piss all over someone else's tactics if they like it.

Will it help me or hurt me....meh depends on how the games going but I don't like it when some yahoo is telling me how to run my ship and I won't do the same to another player. Just my 10 cents.

  

I guess I just figure when you are playing as a team then you should use the strategies that are best for the team rather than the individual. The same attitude I have when I block a stern rake of a team mate by sacrificing my starboard or port armour. I'm not trying to tell people how to play just that if they are selfish and can't play as a team then maybe they should stick to PVE or duels. Ultimately for now it's not a big deal as we are just alpha testing but just wanted to discuss to see if I was missing something. Obviously I wasn't and the strategy is as I figured, ill-suited to team play. 

 

Yes Panda I agree with what you are saying...to a degree. This is why I added the part about "significant" ships, those being the larger, heavier damage dealing vessels. Why I only agree with you to a degree is that a smaller ship does very little damage to a larger ship from a distance using ball ammo so in a smaller ship you are being far less helpful then if you were protecting the stern of your bigger ships or stern camping their bigger ships. Your damage would be much better served hitting larger ships with double in their weakest point and harassing them at the same time. For Joe I'm not telling Panda how to play rather just discussing strategies in hopes that I can be more effective and maybe offer suggestions to help someone else be a better player but whether they try it or not is their prerogative.  By the way, I'm always a sniper if the option is in a game but different games call for different strategies.

I agree with both of you.

On one hand people need to have fun the way they want. I remember being in a guild in EQ2 and some people were making up all kinds or rules that for me took the fun out of the game because they had some idea how they thought things should be. Maybe some of these people playing on the outskirts either are playing the way they thought they should or just don't have the experience yet to be able to maneuver a larger ship yet and are trying to learn the ropes before barreling in and messing with others strategies.

I do like the team play of course and think it is more important then solo play. You moving in to protect another player shows a great understanding of the armor and the vulnerability of team mates! I guess you can only lead by example and hope others can learn by watching you play. Chances are people will take on your style of play once they see the fun of the game and not the need for points. I enjoyed playing war thunder for a while and yes trying to progress to the next plane was fun but I found it way more fun to take on certain roles and try hard to do what's right for that vehicle. Like protecting a bomber to his targets or as a bomber trying to attack targets as a team and head back to reload.

At any rate I just can't wait to come play! 8)

[SYN_Bloody-Bandy]

...Other games I have played, World of Tanks for example, make it so miserable to lose that just a few bad games can ruin your entire night and cause massive frustration and stress... 

 

And here I thought it was only me reacting that way...     WoT is the crack of MMO's, and before I realized that, introduced it to my son.  What a bad move... 

[Joe]

This game is in its infancy so the portion we are allowed to play really is just a small taste of what to expect. Losing is so far painless really, I'm sure that in the finished game we will we more of the roles each player can fill and losing might carry more weight but as of now I'd say it's cool to try all kinds of crazy tactics just to see how the game works.

Damage model 4.0 will change the game again and we will learn more of what to expect. All the various types of players will join and we will see how things work. If the devs balance the game well then everyone will fit in no matter how they choose to enjoy it. Time will tell how things shake out but as of now I'd say just keep trying new things, experimenting is fun.