justMike247 Posted October 20, 2024 Posted October 20, 2024 21 minutes ago, Urst said: All you have to do is NOT sail straight into the mass and you literally *cannot* lose that fight with how many 5" guns I had as secondaries on all 5 of my ships.) **whisperin** you're forgetting the A.I's secret weapon, specially fitted to all sub-par hulls to explain away unbelievable engagement results... "What's the secret weapon?" I hear you say?? nothing more than the traditional "I phart in your general direction...!" deadly at 5000yds or less... wind direction irrespective, apparently 1
justMike247 Posted October 20, 2024 Posted October 20, 2024 can anybody explain these post-battle results for me, cos... I'm buggered if I can figure this out... 3x identical BB's (102.7k ton) with 12x 16" Mk3 rifles expending their entire (or at least all of the 55% normal ammo loadout) stock of Heavy projectiles against one solitary 136.6k ton BB. Gun accuracy is 68%, 57% and 60% respectively... Total combined damage is a whopping 56pts. That's... irrespective of whether projectile is H.E. or A.P., shell weight either 1.7 or 2.2 metric tons, impacting at between Mach 1 and Mach 1.5... merely chipping paint with each hit. How on earth is that possible?? Another "how is that possible" question... Target BB apparently has superstructure armour at 487.5mm thick... Krupp 3... How on earth is that thing able to sail without capsizing in anything above sea-state 1? (metacentric height rediculously high). To clarify.. if this behemoth ever crossed the wake of any other vessel, the resulting instability would cause it to capsize. If it ever saw wind in excess of 3kts, the combination of rediculously high metacentric height and sail area would cause it to capsize. Have schools given up teaching physics thesedays? Impervious to A.P., impervious to H.E., impervious to torps (22 hits for a total of 2.45k damage)... I sunk the bugger, but I'm damned if I know how...
jw62 Posted October 20, 2024 Posted October 20, 2024 The campaign just really doesn't work this way. There is no mechanic to force a war if the other side can just refuse it, while that would be nice in real life, this is my game, I came here to blow things up. what's the point of making it easier for me to aggro a nation if they can just block the war from starting. I'm also not in Beta, these changes are way too extensive for the game itself, this was relatively playable a little while back, please revert most of it or do something and then make your big changes in Beta
brothermunro Posted October 20, 2024 Posted October 20, 2024 2 hours ago, justMike247 said: can anybody explain these post-battle results for me, cos... I'm buggered if I can figure this out... 3x identical BB's (102.7k ton) with 12x 16" Mk3 rifles expending their entire (or at least all of the 55% normal ammo loadout) stock of Heavy projectiles against one solitary 136.6k ton BB. Gun accuracy is 68%, 57% and 60% respectively... Total combined damage is a whopping 56pts. That's... irrespective of whether projectile is H.E. or A.P., shell weight either 1.7 or 2.2 metric tons, impacting at between Mach 1 and Mach 1.5... merely chipping paint with each hit. How on earth is that possible?? Another "how is that possible" question... Target BB apparently has superstructure armour at 487.5mm thick... Krupp 3... How on earth is that thing able to sail without capsizing in anything above sea-state 1? (metacentric height rediculously high). To clarify.. if this behemoth ever crossed the wake of any other vessel, the resulting instability would cause it to capsize. If it ever saw wind in excess of 3kts, the combination of rediculously high metacentric height and sail area would cause it to capsize. Have schools given up teaching physics thesedays? Impervious to A.P., impervious to H.E., impervious to torps (22 hits for a total of 2.45k damage)... I sunk the bugger, but I'm damned if I know how... You’re probably coming up against a ship with a very high resistance which is reducing any incoming damage to near zero.
justMike247 Posted October 20, 2024 Posted October 20, 2024 13 minutes ago, brothermunro said: You’re probably coming up against a ship with a very high resistance which is reducing any incoming damage to near zero. yupp... that's exactly what it is... just had a repetition, but this time I closed the range to just 4km... more hits than ya can shake a stick at... zero damage... I believe the correct technical term for this is... utter unadulterated horsechit... A 2.5 ton kinetic penetrator impacting at pretty damned close to Mach 2.5 is gonna induce significant emotional events of near biblical proportions... Rediculous superstructure armour aside, my BB's suffering this nerfage have pretty damned close to the same level of armour, but Modern 2 rather than Krupp 3... flagship's getting opened up like a frikkin sardine can. It's nerfage like this that makes absolute nonsense of any good features of the game...
brothermunro Posted October 20, 2024 Posted October 20, 2024 Resistance pops up as an issue every now and then. Still think the best option would be for the devs to cap the damage reduction it can give at a value lower than 100% - then they don’t have to do repeated fixes or fiddly busy work like adjusting the values in parts
Nick Thomadis Posted October 20, 2024 Author Posted October 20, 2024 Uploaded optimized x3 version including: - More adjustments and improvements on the tension mechanics based on your recent and very helpful feedback. There was an expected behavior to cause tension even from fleets which were not particularly large, so there have been some necessary changes to the logic, to please, hopefully, most if not all players with the result. Tension should be triggered when ships are at sea. When nations are in positive relations they can receive a very slight increase in relations if they keep their forces out of port in a reasonable number. - Fixed issue causing the new alliance/war events to be auto-answered wrongly sometimes, and not given to the player for deciding if he wants a war or an alliance. You need to restart Steam to get the update fast] 4
justMike247 Posted October 21, 2024 Posted October 21, 2024 5 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said: - Fixed issue causing the new alliance/war events to be auto-answered wrongly sometimes, and not given to the player for deciding if he wants a war or an alliance. that explains why I'm in a war without any warning... Thanks for the clarification 1
justMike247 Posted October 21, 2024 Posted October 21, 2024 (edited) No warning, I'm in 2 wars... but 2nd war ends as quickly as it starts despite ongoing conquests. First war, mid conquest, suddenly half my blockading fleets aren't being seen as "involved"... but this is turn 4 of 7 and I've other fleets nearby. Next turn, conquest over/failed... edit.. Conquest failed because war's over... no warning, no reparations, no nothing... I know I'm not doing drugs, but someone sure as hell is. re-edit... Before I can complete moving fleets back to port, "the gub'ment" wants to go back to war against the same 2 countries we just STOPPED fighting... Utter lunacy... Edited October 21, 2024 by justMike247
JaM Posted October 21, 2024 Posted October 21, 2024 Its never-ending wars again... tried to play as Japan 1890.. in 1895 war against Austria-Hungary (HOW? WHY? i have no ships in their waters and so they), after two years France threatens me with war as well.. I cant pay them off, because im barely scrapping by, being VERY BEHIND technologically, and small budget while keeping just under 40 ships (2BBs 24 CLs, and some TBs).. Anyway, entire Austrian fleet comes into Japan sea, which i engage and defeat somehow.. yet my fleet in there increases tension with China which declares war against me soon after (i just cant pay 50-60mil at that point, would instantly go bankrupt) Mind you - this is NORMAL difficulty, with Fast Campaign.... would say its pretty much impossible survive while playing smaller nation... difficulty is completely broken.. its either smooth sailing if you play let say Germany, or completely impossible if you play Japan, or Spain or some other smaller nation... I would understand such tough gameplay if I was playing on Legendary, but Normal seems to be quite harsh... BTW, How is AI able to recruit so many people for their navies??? i have a problem to get sailors for small fleet, yet some nations have 200-300 ships and building a lot of new ones.. Also, one of the things that are quite annoying is the fact that everybody fights everybody... In my example - France is at war with China, declares war on me, then few turns later, China declares war on me as well... thats completely bonkers.. There should be obvious "enemy of my enemy is my friend" rule somewhere.. so these perpetual wars would at least make sense...
MDHansen Posted October 21, 2024 Posted October 21, 2024 (edited) These are the numbers I am running with with the latest live build, 1.6.0.9 opt3 -(sea)Regions without fleets (at all), gets a positive 1.0 every turn, for each nation in each empty theater. This makes sense, and can over time make up for the proper tensions done by fleets through the game. -In regions where fleets are active, for one or more nation, there are negative tensions in the region of -1.0 to -4. -Numbers below might not be the only triggers, but I can consistently and reliably get what I want by tweaking these. That being said, I have also decresead by many times the "relative power for various estimations" in shipTypes, maybe down to 1/10 of original value. (A PP in the 100s of millions range doesnt make sense) I urge the devs to play around more, and test them with a single 1 year run in campaign mode before releasing a "clear fix", please. (vanilla) province_income_tension_modifier,0.001,,,,,,,, (0.0001) negative_tension_threshold,1,,,,,,,, (0.5) tension_power_threshold,0.5,,,,,,,, (1.25) power_projection_modifier,0.00002,power projection modifier,,,,,,, (0.00001) power_shiptype_factor,1,influence of ship type to power projection (exponent),,,,,,, (1.25) power_displacement_factor,0.7,influence of ship displacement to power projection (exponent),,,,,,, (0.55) power_range_factor,0.7,influence of ship range to power projection (exponent),,,,,,, (0.5) power_speed_factor,0.3,influence of ship speed to power projection (exponent),,,,,,, (0.55) power_firepower_factor,0.8,influence of ship speed to power projection (exponent),,,,,,, (0.55) power_projection_limited,0,"modifier of power projection for ships at ""Limited Mode""",,,,,,, (0.5) power_projection_defend,0.1,"modifier of power projection for ships at ""Defend Mode""",,,,,,, (0.66) power_projection_at_sea,1.5,modifier of power projection for ships at sea,,,,,,, (2) Edited October 21, 2024 by MDHansen
Nick Thomadis Posted October 21, 2024 Author Posted October 21, 2024 18 minutes ago, MDHansen said: These are the numbers I am running with with the latest live build, 1.6.0.9 opt3 -(sea)Regions without fleets (at all), gets a positive 1.0 every turn, for each nation in each empty theater. This makes sense, and can over time make up for the proper tensions done by fleets through the game. -In regions where fleets are active, for one or more nation, there are negative tensions in the region of -1.0 to -4. -Numbers below might not be the only triggers, but I can consistently and reliably get what I want by tweaking these. That being said, I have also decresead by many times the "relative power for various estimations" in shipTypes, maybe down to 1/10 of original value. (A PP in the 100s of millions range doesnt make sense) I urge the devs to play around more, and test them with a single 1 year run in campaign mode before releasing a "clear fix", please. (vanilla) province_income_tension_modifier,0.001,,,,,,,, (0.0001) negative_tension_threshold,1,,,,,,,, (0.5) tension_power_threshold,0.5,,,,,,,, (1.25) power_projection_modifier,0.00002,power projection modifier,,,,,,, (0.00001) power_shiptype_factor,1,influence of ship type to power projection (exponent),,,,,,, (1.25) power_displacement_factor,0.7,influence of ship displacement to power projection (exponent),,,,,,, (0.55) power_range_factor,0.7,influence of ship range to power projection (exponent),,,,,,, (0.5) power_speed_factor,0.3,influence of ship speed to power projection (exponent),,,,,,, (0.55) power_firepower_factor,0.8,influence of ship speed to power projection (exponent),,,,,,, (0.55) power_projection_limited,0,"modifier of power projection for ships at ""Limited Mode""",,,,,,, (0.5) power_projection_defend,0.1,"modifier of power projection for ships at ""Defend Mode""",,,,,,, (0.66) power_projection_at_sea,1.5,modifier of power projection for ships at sea,,,,,,, (2) The only thing that does affect the new tension is province_income_tension_modifier, which you made it 10 times bigger, so in certain cases medium fleets may not cause any tension at all, if your fleet is inside your own sea region which has a big income and justifies its presence there. But can be tested, if the intention is to make tension milder. All other of your edits will affect raiding outcomes and auto-resolve, not tension, with unpredictable or bad results, if they are not tested by your side. 1
brothermunro Posted October 21, 2024 Posted October 21, 2024 Just so I’m clear privince_income_tension_modifier decreases tension the larger the value? If it is set to a very large value does that cause fleets to not cause any tension at all? If set to a very small value does that cause a lot of tension? Further negative_tension_threshold & tension_power_threshold do not affect tension at all, only raiding and such? (I’m Trying to figure out how the tension system operates)
MDHansen Posted October 21, 2024 Posted October 21, 2024 (edited) Fair enough. Granted I have been tweaking raiding and autoresolves aswell. All in all, I appreciate the clarification province_income_tension_modifier, this makes sense, and is what the last time I tweaked the numbers, was the only one I was increasing/decreasing drastically to provoke a tension reaction I consider the work I do quite thorough, without understanding all the values ofc. edit: I will return the powerprojection numbers back to vanilla since I have a clearer picture of what does what now 👍 Edited October 21, 2024 by MDHansen
JaM Posted October 21, 2024 Posted October 21, 2024 Restarted the campaign, this time, Japan 1900... game on medium difficulty is definitely easier.. so seems to be strictly 1890 start which is challenging due to limited funds/economy player has
Nick Thomadis Posted October 21, 2024 Author Posted October 21, 2024 20 minutes ago, brothermunro said: Just so I’m clear privince_income_tension_modifier decreases tension the larger the value? If it is set to a very large value does that cause fleets to not cause any tension at all? If set to a very small value does that cause a lot of tension? Further negative_tension_threshold & tension_power_threshold do not affect tension at all, only raiding and such? (I’m Trying to figure out how the tension system operates) The larger the value the larger the fleet will be accepted in a sea region and not cause any tension, to say in a few words. Older tension values had an effect but were disabled now. tension_power_threshold is still used but is better to be kept as is, reducing lower than 1 will work oppositely to privince_income_tension_modifier changes and will confuse you in trying to find a different balance, it is a ratio check. 20 minutes ago, MDHansen said: Fair enough. Granted I have been tweaking raiding and autoresolves aswell. All in all, I appreciate the clarification province_income_tension_modifier, this makes sense, and is what the last time I tweaked the numbers, was the only one I was increasing/decreasing drastically to provoke a tension reaction I consider the work I do quite thorough, without understanding all the values ofc. edit: I will return the powerprojection numbers back to vanilla since I have a clearer picture of what does what now 👍 Good, we still check what most players want. There are players who want to have more wars, others want a more relaxed game. We will see what else we can do to satisfy both. 2
Nick Thomadis Posted October 21, 2024 Author Posted October 21, 2024 7 minutes ago, JaM said: Restarted the campaign, this time, Japan 1900... game on medium difficulty is definitely easier.. so seems to be strictly 1890 start which is challenging due to limited funds/economy player has 1890 start has some early challenges for Japan and Spain, which are historically based. The only way to avoid getting dragged to war early against USA or China, is to force yourself to be extremely weak, maybe, I am not sure what other players do for those nations to survive for longer without premature wars. There are also random events which can cause unexpected relation drop vs other nations.
MDHansen Posted October 21, 2024 Posted October 21, 2024 Dont get me wrong, I dont mind wars but understanding the values and numbers, it makes it easier to understand what to do, and not, to provoke tension, or "lay back"
Suribachi Posted October 21, 2024 Posted October 21, 2024 31 minutes ago, JaM said: Restarted the campaign, this time, Japan 1900... game on medium difficulty is definitely easier.. so seems to be strictly 1890 start which is challenging due to limited funds/economy player has 18 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said: 1890 start has some early challenges for Japan and Spain, which are historically based. The only way to avoid getting dragged to war early against USA or China, is to force yourself to be extremely weak, maybe, I am not sure what other players do for those nations to survive for longer without premature wars. There are also random events which can cause unexpected relation drop vs other nations. What I typically do is limit myself to CAs that take up half my naval funds at the beginning. Oversimplified example: If I have $50 million of naval funds at the beginning, and my CA design costs $5 million, I will only build 5 CAs. No other ships. I will then put those ships in Limited as soon as the campaign starts. Typically, this can buy me a few years while the economy starts to ramp up and I can afford more and better ships.
justMike247 Posted October 21, 2024 Posted October 21, 2024 19 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said: 1890 start has some early challenges for Japan and Spain, which are historically based. That might be historically accurate, but it's a country mile away from how the game reflects this. 1890 start as US, before you've done anything, relations with Spain are at -75%, Spain has a respectable (if unremarkable) Navy, design options for US are mere variations on a clown-car theme, and it takes at least 3 years of workin like a one armed paper hanger to dig out from under this mess. Meanwhile, relations with Germany, China and Austro-Hungary are spiraling steadily downwards. I daren't try to use politics to improve things because every unsuccessful attempt costs -5 prestige, and I need all the prestige I have to squeeze every last nickel and dime I can out of the gub'ment... Still very early into a new campaign using latest rev... Tension is marginally less strung-out than it was last night, but unrest seems to be pretty rampant after year 1 of campaign start; dozens of attempted uprisings already. I don't wanna put a hex on anything, but... thus far, this "feels" slightly more playable than any of the last 4-5 updates.
MDHansen Posted October 21, 2024 Posted October 21, 2024 (edited) so apparently the ai will just buy themselves out of a war, and we can't do anything about it? This happens every time I get close to -100. Also, we don't get zeroed out either, but -79 everytime. Is it connected to events relation? event_attitude_mult,0.2,multiplier for delta relation in event's answer to convert to attitude add,10,,,,,, I'll try and cancel this one, that might force a war? Edited October 21, 2024 by MDHansen 1
justMike247 Posted October 21, 2024 Posted October 21, 2024 12x attempts to fight the same battle.. 12x game crash just minutes before I've sunk the last couple of opposing CA's... Ran out of patience; hit Auto-resolve to move on... lost my entire fleet of 7x BB's. I don't expect to go into battle and dominate without picking up so much as a scratch, and I'm quite prepared to accept some proportional losses. This however... is nutz.
JaM Posted October 21, 2024 Posted October 21, 2024 What happened to economy events?? Fresh campaign 1890, Japan again, not a single "economy" event for almost 8 years...
brothermunro Posted October 21, 2024 Posted October 21, 2024 (edited) 4 hours ago, MDHansen said: so apparently the ai will just buy themselves out of a war, and we can't do anything about it? This happens every time I get close to -100. Also, we don't get zeroed out either, but -79 everytime. Is it connected to events relation? event_attitude_mult,0.2,multiplier for delta relation in event's answer to convert to attitude add,10,,,,,, I'll try and cancel this one, that might force a war? I think this is the pre 1.6.0.9 behaviour (it’s triggering the ‘someone has declared war on you’ event) it’s just that previously we wouldn’t know about the ai picking the ‘buy them off’ option (relations would just go up). Edited October 21, 2024 by brothermunro 1
MDHansen Posted October 21, 2024 Posted October 21, 2024 6 minutes ago, brothermunro said: I think this is the pre 1.6.0.9 behaviour (it’s triggering the ‘someone has declared war on you’ event) it’s just that previously we wouldn’t know about the ai picking the ‘buy them off’ option (relations would just go up). Makes sense. I got the war eventually. Netherlands ended up getting the "N@N" error in Naval Funds after paying me off for 7 turns straight
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