Dave P. Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 (edited) I'm wondering if there's maybe something wrong with the AI's ship scrap/upgrade/replacement and R&D logic? In my current campaign it's 1938 and I'm fighting nothing but pre- and semi-dreadnaughts. They did at least _some_ R&D at some point (they've got nickel-steel armor and mk2 guns mostly) but it's like they stopped funding research in 1900-ish. Also their fleets are huge. So it's like the AI is prioritizing ship maintenance and construction over research. Edited October 23, 2024 by Dave P. 1
Thramoun Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 I've started a new campaign and I got to say I love that you can now see other major nation's naval invasions - it really adds to (your) peacetime when you see the other nations are actually doing stuff on the map, besides being told from events. That being said, I think the game still would profit from a lot more variety in peacetime events! Preferrably some that will let you take some of your ships for a spin, if possible... Though I understand that may not be practical. Someone talked about a more in-depth information system before, where you would get tidbits as to what the other nations are currently designing or building, or what they've already got in the water - to be able to react. Gun stats, armor values, speed values etc... 1
Shornaal Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 Verified files on Steam and started a brand new campaign, I still have no territory changes when minors win a rebellion.
justMike247 Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 35 minutes ago, Thramoun said: That being said, I think the game still would profit from a lot more variety in peacetime events! Peacetime?? What is this mythical beast?? I've had nothin but 3-5 fleet v's single TB, fleet v's single CL etc for the last 10 freakin years... non stop... That said.. my clown cars are in no fit state to face a fleet action.... eesh 2
Thramoun Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 14 minutes ago, justMike247 said: Peacetime?? What is this mythical beast?? I've had nothin but 3-5 fleet v's single TB, fleet v's single CL etc for the last 10 freakin years... non stop... That said.. my clown cars are in no fit state to face a fleet action.... eesh I've not had that particular experience, though I did catch britain with their pants down (their entire fleet was protecting overseas territories - I parked my fleets around the isles and won the war before the british fleets passed Gibraltar). It's the only war I've had so far, and it lasted just under a year, though I'm only a few years in at this point. I did also take some portuguese colonies in west africa, but that didn't escalate.
JaM Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 AI loves to form huge fleets, and sends them all on looong voyages... hard to say why, 100k invasion requirement maybe? not sure.. anyway, i think it would be better if invasion requirement was based on army size in the province.. instead of fixed 100k ton requirement... makes no sense if you are invading some small islands and you need to gather such fleet...
Thramoun Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 4 minutes ago, JaM said: AI loves to form huge fleets, and sends them all on looong voyages... hard to say why, 100k invasion requirement maybe? not sure.. anyway, i think it would be better if invasion requirement was based on army size in the province.. instead of fixed 100k ton requirement... makes no sense if you are invading some small islands and you need to gather such fleet... I completed an Invasion at 100% with about 7k tons, where did you still need 100k?
justMike247 Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 May... 1905... Fleet condition is making first tentative steps away from initial clown car options for fleet construction, hampered greatly by every other new hull available being utterly useless... can't built with it cos either the main guns won't fit the hull, or the weight offsets are so rediculous that I can't null them despite grotesquely asymetric armour plans. Thus far, I've beat down the Spanish, and the Germans, the Chinese are following their model, i.e. deploying assets piecemeal rather than attempting to have a fleet action. Nearing the 300 count for these piecemeal engagements... rapidly losing the will to live... Fort... I say FORTunately... there's pizza... Kinda compensates for no end in sight to this muppetry. Thing I can't figure with the current Tension settings... Every country (excluding myself) is at war with between 2-5 other countries, and it's been that way since about 1892... Constantly beating three shades of fertiliser outa each other. With just one exception (again, exclusing myself), the GDP for all the other countries is heavily negative, their entire navy size would barely be comparible with a pair of my fleets, and yet, they keep on keepin on. Question is... Why?? What the hell is going on that keeps driving Tension constantly downward? They say the definition of insanity is repeatedly smacking your head into a wall in the hope that next time the outcome will be different. That's the level of intelligence the A.I.'s displaying right now, where despite hundreds of engagements, not a single one of the ships sent against me has returned home, yet still... they persist. Seems to me "that boy's got a mind as sha'p as a sackfulla featha's"...
Aendos Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 8 minutes ago, Thramoun said: I completed an Invasion at 100% with about 7k tons, where did you still need 100k? I believe you need a fleet of 100k tons in the area to be able to start a naval invasion. Then you don't have to send all of them there.
justMike247 Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 12 minutes ago, JaM said: instead of fixed 100k ton requirement... makes no sense if you are invading some small islands and you need to gather such fleet... if only that was all that was required...
JaM Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 8 minutes ago, Thramoun said: I completed an Invasion at 100% with about 7k tons, where did you still need 100k? you need 100k fleet to Naval Invasion option to populate in Politics..
justMike247 Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 1 hour ago, Thramoun said: I completed an Invasion at 100% with about 7k tons, where did you still need 100k? I believe you're confusing "minor nation hostile toward us" with invading another major province. The former merely needs a fleet that meets/exceeds the stated requirement. Invasion however, requires 100k just to get your foot in the door, and probably a hellova lot more.
Warspite96 Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 (edited) Can research be the next thing that gets looked at on this patch? Quite frankly the time needed to research new tech, particularly battleship guns, is extremely painful. I started a US 1930 campaign, it is now 1942 and I still don't even have Mk4 16 inch guns when historically the United States had already completed at least 4 modern fast battleships armed with the 16"/45 gun at the point of my campaign. There was a thread on this forum that had a good suggestion for how main gun research should work instead of the current system. Edited October 23, 2024 by Warspite96 1
lrdplatypus Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 I'm stuck in 3 never ending wars watching my transports drop 5-10% per turn. I have colonies all over the world so its impossible to protect everything. There's not even a clear indication of how to stop the bleeding. The war mechanic feels really bad. If I'm winning by a lot, and I offer peace to the enemy, why would they not accept it? And if the answer is that I'm just the head of the navy, I'm not my nation's leader, then why would my nation's leader want to prolong a war that's bleeding us dry on transports? I really think the game should give up the idea that we're not leading the nation so we don't get to make decisions. If I click "peace treaty" then I expect it to be accepted if the other nation is losing! The "War continues because of failed negotiations" feels really bad when it happens every other turn. 1
Aendos Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 (edited) 21 minutes ago, lrdplatypus said: I'm stuck in 3 never ending wars watching my transports drop 5-10% per turn. I have colonies all over the world so its impossible to protect everything. There's not even a clear indication of how to stop the bleeding. The war mechanic feels really bad. If I'm winning by a lot, and I offer peace to the enemy, why would they not accept it? And if the answer is that I'm just the head of the navy, I'm not my nation's leader, then why would my nation's leader want to prolong a war that's bleeding us dry on transports? I really think the game should give up the idea that we're not leading the nation so we don't get to make decisions. If I click "peace treaty" then I expect it to be accepted if the other nation is losing! The "War continues because of failed negotiations" feels really bad when it happens every other turn. My game is also been in a state of global total war from about 1895 onwards....no one has any GDP at all. Autoresolve is out of control. I would like to know who is the captain of these superhuman AI torpedo boats that can sink my battle line all by themselves. I'm also about 0 (zero) for 20 in small destroyer actions that I autoresolve. Really? Even if the AI ship is so vastly superior (they arent) I would be able to get one once in a while.... Edited October 23, 2024 by Aendos 1
Urst Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 2 hours ago, justMike247 said: I believe you're confusing "minor nation hostile toward us" with invading another major province. The former merely needs a fleet that meets/exceeds the stated requirement. Invasion however, requires 100k just to get your foot in the door, and probably a hellova lot more. I've conquered colonies of enemy major powers with fleets of less than 50k, but yes you still need at least 100k in the region to initiate the invasion. As an aside, It'd be great if we could right-click on a territory and get the related options for that faction instead of needing to go into the menu.
dbs1701 Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 With all of the time it CAN take from one battle/war to the next for the player, it would be helpful to know if the player's naval development is keeping up, especially when everyone is about average. SUGGESTION: Let the player see the "Naval Intelligence" cards for all designs in the game. The player can click on any ship built (we can already see them in the turn log) by scrolling and clicking on the game log. This would pull up the screen. While the card does not show technology level directly, it will show the player speed, some armor, and armament. This would simulate spying, officer exchanges, port visits, etc... 1
Warspite96 Posted October 23, 2024 Posted October 23, 2024 (edited) To add to my earlier post, I think cruisers need a tower weight overhaul similar to DDs. Late game cruisers can often have 30-40% of their displacement be just on the tower weight. The weight of radar and other fire control equipment was an issue for some cruisers in WW2, but I don't think the superstructure of ships accounted for nearly half the construction displacement. I tried to build a Baltimore style CA on a US campaign, and its basically impossible on most of the Modern Heavy Cruiser hulls because the tower weight is just way too high. The historical compromises of ship design were speed, firepower and protection, in UAD its speed, firepower, protection and tower weight lmao. Edited October 23, 2024 by Warspite96 1
justMike247 Posted October 24, 2024 Posted October 24, 2024 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Warspite96 said: To add to my earlier post, I think cruisers need a tower weight overhaul similar to DDs. It's not just superstructure that needs serious rework... add guns, gun turrets, torpedoes (especially the launchers) and engines are all modeled on some material that makes depleted uranium look featherweight. Case in point... Type 93 Long Lance... the biggest, longest range torpedo of the war weighed a whopping (for a torp) 2,700Kg's each. Stick those into a quintruple launcher, that's 13,500Kg's per launcher... Double that to allow for a single reload and we're up to 27tons... So why does that single system weigh 187 tons? Yea, I know, you need to install pure O2 storage etc, but still.. that's a chitloada lord knows what for a single launcher. I've already had my wrist slapped for pointing out that you could build the entire Chain Home network for the weight imposed on a single BB for installing Gen 3 RADAR. **le sigh** Research... it's a thang... Edited October 24, 2024 by justMike247
Северная Posted October 24, 2024 Posted October 24, 2024 There is still way too much constant war. Everyone is at war with 3-4 nations at once. Tension hits are too severe. A few updates ago it was fine but it’s crazy now. 1
JaM Posted October 24, 2024 Posted October 24, 2024 2 hours ago, Северная said: There is still way too much constant war. Everyone is at war with 3-4 nations at once. Tension hits are too severe. A few updates ago it was fine but it’s crazy now. PLus it has a long term effect - all nations become quite weak.. if you survive initial onslaught, you become too strong, can chose your wars, and when you get into war, enemy usually has just few ships.. which is annoying, because my invasion fleet has to fight single TB or CL every other turn..
justMike247 Posted October 24, 2024 Posted October 24, 2024 9 hours ago, JaM said: PLus it has a long term effect - all nations become quite weak.. if you survive initial onslaught, you become too strong, can chose your wars, and when you get into war, enemy usually has just few ships.. which is annoying, because my invasion fleet has to fight single TB or CL every other turn.. Bingo... I'm in exactly the same boat, aside from facing 3-5 dumb single ship v's fleet actions every month. If these piecemeal pieces were combined into a fleet, then the fight might be worthwhile... but as things are... it's just an endless duckshoot... The only entertainment is guessing which salvo's gonna deliver the kill-shot... Trying to improve relations, politically, 1 chance in 12 thus far of working... only to see results thwarted next turn by the auto-tension mechanism. There's no challenge to this at all. Working around the messed up hull weight offsets, that's commonplace now... So what if half my fleet looks like trawlers rather than fighting ships; I'm merely working within constraints imposed on me... 1
JaM Posted October 24, 2024 Posted October 24, 2024 Yeah, but if you become number 1 country, you can just block the war declaration yourself.. so you can actually pick and chose your wars.. being higher in the ladder over your opponent gives you that option.. Anyway, game just becomes tedious at that point, and i usually start a new campaign.. I wish we had a RETIRE button, where I could just finish the campaign when i want it.. instead of being forced to play till 1965 if I want to see end result numbers (which are not that interesting right now, i wish it was done a bit better) 3
Aendos Posted October 24, 2024 Posted October 24, 2024 3 hours ago, JaM said: Yeah, but if you become number 1 country, you can just block the war declaration yourself.. so you can actually pick and chose your wars.. being higher in the ladder over your opponent gives you that option.. Anyway, game just becomes tedious at that point, and i usually start a new campaign.. I wish we had a RETIRE button, where I could just finish the campaign when i want it.. instead of being forced to play till 1965 if I want to see end result numbers (which are not that interesting right now, i wish it was done a bit better) I am experiencing the opposite of this. I have 3-4 nations demanding $200M from me per turn to avoid war. Havent been able to build a new ship in 5 years.
justMike247 Posted October 24, 2024 Posted October 24, 2024 3 hours ago, JaM said: Anyway, game just becomes tedious at that point, and i usually start a new campaign.. It shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone that the game is singularly devoid of anything resembling a challenge. These days, the only trial is the traditional compromise between mobility, firepower and protection, despite whatever new nerfs have been imposed on the ship construction modules. Even that gets dull eventually. Just imagine how the game could be if the A.I. actually had intelligence, was capable of learning, and evolved tactics to challenge yours. Imagine how challenging the game could be if there were no nerf imposed differences between your fleet and you’re A.I. opponent… where the laws of physics applied equally to both, right across the playing field, where you need a combination of good tech, good fleet strength, and no small measure of wit and guile to defeat a worthy opponent, and that opponent was absolutely capable of kickin your ass should you be found wanting. The game just oozes with so much potential, but rather than work towards realising it, we’re stuck in this seemingly endless round of “improvements” where changes swing from one extreme to the other, with no evident attempt to find some compromise or middle ground that presented a requisite degree of challenge, with a workable degree of control or influence. It’s kinda sad to reflet on playing far more challenging games 30 years ago, where the gameplay was immersive enough to demand forgiveness for the VGA graphics and 8 bit sound. That’s why I’m so critical of the dev’s… there’s no real excuse for the current mess… there’s plenty examples out there demonstrating how good, challenging, immersive gameplay should be, gameplay that didn’t need to resort to truly insulting levels of asymmetric nerfage to give the opponent the ability to survive for more than five minutes. *le sigh*… Best I can hope to do… point out errors as I find them and try to nudge in the right direction. Right now, the only saving grace this Rev has is the ability to say HELL NO when being pushed to declare war every thirty seconds; surely it shouldn’t take too many lines of code to give the A.I. the same ability to assess the strengths, weaknesses and potential offensive capability of its own force projection capabilities, make an educated guess re the capabilities of potential opponents, factor in the financial strengths/weaknesses of its economy and make a rational decision re how far to push tension, and perhaps more importantly, when to back off… When you can do that kinda calculation in your head in less than a couple of seconds, it’s hardly rocket science, right?
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