Suggested gun caliber research dates

[TK3600]

Below are a rework of gun caliber research date rework, based on mix of current game balance and historical precedence. I will explain the key changes and why they are made.

1. Guns 14 and up now unlock at mk3 minimum, instead of mk1.
   • It makes sense in 1911 we do not need to remake 1890 muzzle loaders just to get to new calibers. It will start up to date.
   • Furthermore, it prevent AI from using outdated design, thus improving AI ship building.
2. To compensate for skipping mk 1 and 2, 14-18in guns cost 3x as usual to unlock, 4x for 19in, and 5x for 20in.
   • It also makes sense that increasing calibers takes more effort vs applying new tech to existing calibers.
   • maintains overall research time needed for the tech tree, thus keeps balance.
3. In general, 15in and 16in appears earlier, as per this historical appearance dates.
4. Guns 17-20in appears relatively earlier, but do not unlock at latest mk, unlike 14-16in.
   • Guns 17-20in historically have been difficult to get right, due to extreme pressure it creates. They start at 1 mk earlier than latest tech.
5. 9in guns nerfed, they no longer unlock extremely early relative to others.
   • In current game, mk5 9in unlock at 1925, while 10in at 1930. This makes little sense why applying existing tech to 1 inch higher takes 5 years.
6. mk4 of 15in guns unlocks 5 years later than usual, due to the treaty limitations.
   • This is the only time delaying tech spread to other existing calibers made sense.

 

 

 

[DougToss]

This could be pedantic, but the 1890 guns are all rifled breach loaders. 

[TK3600]

On 7/26/2024 at 8:41 AM, DougToss said:

This could be pedantic, but the 1890 guns are all rifled breach loaders. 

Strange. I was under impression many major powers still used muzzle loader in 1890. The extremely low RoF reflect it. Perhaps UK and Germany starts with breechloaders?

Edited July 27, 2024 by TK3600

[Hopit]

The German Brandenburg class BB's were breech loaders, for their main armament anyway (prolly for the secondary aswell) , and those started being built in 1890

[TK3600]

Yeah. My impression is Germany and UK are the only 2 breech loader user at 1890. Hence their tech lead. Rest still at muzzle loader.

 

I would love more start date tech disparity. If I play Qing I should get ass kicked until mid game.

Edited September 6, 2024 by TK3600

[justMike247]

On 9/6/2024 at 5:50 AM, TK3600 said:

Yeah. My impression is Germany and UK are the only 2 breech loader user at 1890. Hence their tech lead. Rest still at muzzle loader.

The Frenchies were in that party too... makes sense when ya think about it... America wouldn't have been too far behind. According to Wiki, Austro-Hungarians barely made it, their first pre-dreadnoughts being comissioned around turn of the century, armed with Krupp supplied guns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_274_modèle_1893/1896

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_cm_SK_L/40

 

Interesting side-note... Technically, the Krupp guns were QF rather than BL...

[Dave P.]

The UK kept muzzle loaders around longer than most other powers, but even they had switched over by 1890. Except for obsolete ships that were kept around at remote stations. And even most of those got refit/rearmed at some point.

I like the proposed tech tree change though. I mean, Italy was fielding a >16" armed ship in the 1880s. It's dumb that you have to unlock the larger calibers in the first place, and then re-research the same accuracy- and range-boosting techs for each caliber. (Realistically if you can build a 4" Mk5, you can build a 5" Mk5 already, and if you build Mk5 tech for a 2", it may take some R&D to make the same for an 8", but you now know how that tech work and it shouldn't take more time to develop than it took to invent the tech in the first place. Nor should you then have to start from scratch designing the 7.5" version.