NAR Alpha 1 for UAD 1.7

[Maximus Tyberius]

The new nations need desperately territorial subdivisions.

I started a campaign as Chile and after a while I declared war on Argentina, I completely destroyed  their fleet but the game never gave me the option to start a naval invasion, then Argentina launched a land invasion on Chile without an overwhelming superiority (60.000 vs 50.000) and they won...Chile was defeated. 

1. Chilean troops were the best of south america at that time. they were veterans from the war of the pacific, a victory against Bolivia and Perú. so a numerical inferiority when defending is actually an advantage.

2. Attacking Chile from Argentina (and vice-versa) means to cross the second highest mountain range in the world. therefore ALL invasions must fail, always.

3. It's proposterous that the longest country in the world (Chile) can be conquered by attacking a single point.  

4 It's ridiculous that one of the 10 largest countries in the world (Argentina) can be conquered with a single attack...

Conclusion: More territories for the new nations. please.

 

Edited October 6, 2024 by Maximus Tyberius

[flaviohc16]

26 minutes ago, Maximus Tyberius said:

The new nations need desperately territorial subdivisions.

I started a campaign with Chile and after a while I declared war on Argentina, I completely destroyed  their fleet but the game never gave me the option to start a naval invasion, then Argentina launched a land invasion on Chile without an overwhelming superiority (60.000 vs 50.000) and they won...Chile was defeated. 

 

You know how naval invasion work right?

RIGHT???

[Maximus Tyberius]

8 minutes ago, flaviohc16 said:

You know how naval invasion work right?

RIGHT???

Seems like I don't. I thought naval superiority in the area was the trigger. 

[Maximus Tyberius]

With ot without naval invasion the way I was defeated was fcking frustrating...

[flaviohc16]

9 minutes ago, Maximus Tyberius said:

Seems like I don't. I thought naval superiority in the area was the trigger. 

Looool

 

You need 100k tons in the sea region where the nation you want to invade is located.

 

8 minutes ago, Maximus Tyberius said:

With ot without naval invasion the way I was defeated was fcking frustrating...

If you don't know how the game works, it will be frustrating, especially when modded

[o Barão]

5 hours ago, Maximus Tyberius said:

Can I set the national chilean flag for campaign map ports and fleets, but also set that the actual ships still use the naval flag on the prow?

No. You will need to choose. An engine limitation. So if you set the Chilean flag for ports and diplomacy, that will be the only flag you will see on ships. That is why in some cases I prefer to use the Naval Jack. It will be incorrect to see the Naval jack on ports in the campaign map, but will be much nicer to see on ships in battle. But that is my personal taste, anyone can edit the flags.csv to get what they want, or add new flags if they wish.

[o Barão]

34 minutes ago, Maximus Tyberius said:

Seems like I don't. I thought naval superiority in the area was the trigger. 

 

24 minutes ago, flaviohc16 said:

You need 100k tons in the sea region where the nation you want to invade is located.

And need to set the naval invasion target in the diplomacy tab to be applied next turn.

Also, the fleet tonnage requirements for a successful invasion change according to the port size.

[DosMan]

I just installed everything according to the guide and have downgraded to 1.0.6.6 opt4 with melon 6.4 and i think the issue is the TaF file? it has been updated for 1.0.6.7 and i cant get the older versions anywhere i could find ive been trying for hours to get it to work but nothing is helping, any help would be appreciated

[flaviohc16]

I'm going with my USA 1890 campaign, normal difficulty, the year is 1930.

The economy is starting to snowball, but this is fine with 1930 USA, it's what happened after the recession.

 

Some little gripes I have @o Barão:

1) The towers on the modern light cruiser 2 (Cleveland) are wayyy too heavy, like 3000 tons for the primary tower and 2000 tons for the 2ndary turret on a 14000 ton ship.

2) modern light cruisers cost too much: my 13k tons heavy cruiser armed with 12x11' guns cost less than my Cleveland clone (also 13k tons)

3) 2 gun/turret on light cruisers come so late in the tech tree that they get almost outgunned by dds

4) Modern Torpedo boats: Imho you have 2 choices to make: either make them small dds or patrol boat, because right now they feel in the middle:

- with the 1000 tons limit even if I put on min drought and width I can't max the hull ( 1041 tons, but my limit is at 1000 tons), So if you want to do into the "mini DD territory" you could make them also accept 5' single guns (now limited to 4') and after they are unlocked (together with the 2200 tons dds), you could make them increase at the 3000 tons dds tech tier to 1200 tons and with the last dd tier (7500 tons) at 1500 tons TBs, so you can max out the hull if you want.

- If you want to make them small patrol boats, then they need to be smaller, the 1000 tons limit must be with the ship drought and width maxed out, and the size of the torpedo limited to 21'

5) alliances need some work, especially because you can't pullout of them if both nations are still at war. imho that needs to be changed, especially because with 18 nations it becomes a forever war. Ofc you would incur in heavy penalities, like your relations going from +100 to -70 so you are almost at war with them.

[NathanKell]

On 10/5/2024 at 2:17 AM, JeeWeeJ said:

I've also started noticing some weird techlevel stuff. Started a new campaign and was always on "average" with the Brits being the only ones on Very Advanced. (my tech budget has always been at 100%)
Now a massive war has broken out, and suddenly I'm "behind" while Greece, which has a GDP which is 1/4th of mine and 1/3rd the annual naval budget is still "average"? Can anyone explain to me what the logic is behind that? (I thought that the research budget was based on your naval budget, but it doesn't seem to be that simple?)


vs

Also, but maybe this is more of a TAF thing, it seems like those alliances getting dragged into wars is working a bit too well? The AI in my game is in a MASSIVE war with me being the only somewhat neutral party (Dutch gotta Dutch) and it has been raging for years now with both sides (two massive alliance blocks) both sides just keep going at it...but it seems the game never really reaches a point where it makes peace? (or they just get dragged back in due to the new alliance logic, I've seen so many war declarations in this game) At this point my game is like "The year is 1913, and there is only war".

Pretty much all nations look like this (this is Russia for example)

I love that alliances are now actually useful, but this seems to be overdoing it a bit? @NathanKell is that as-designed?
 

Yeah that needs work. Happy to do some hacking if folks (or just @o Barão) figure out what behavior is actually desired.

 

5 hours ago, Fyredrake said:

Running into what I think is another bug, haven't encountered this with any gun system except this in this case so a rather rare one.  But essentially when I created a refit of this ship as shown in the screenshots, I did not select upgrade gun mark, but upon refitting the ship also as shown, it in fact did. Not a really big deal, just messes up the gun positioning on the ships which I then have to go and fix is all.  But it messes up the "aesthetic" of the dreadnought versus modern I suppose xD.  Uncertain if there is anything you can do for this, but I have linked the save file here.   

 

 

 

Please send me a save from before you tried to refit the ship, so I can try to reproduce the problem. Failing that, send me a save where the old ship can at least be refitted again so I can reproduce.

 

And per the TAF thread, the batch ship generator is up. Was easier to do than I feared, I found some nice UI bits I could cannibalize easily.

[Maximus Tyberius]

7 hours ago, flaviohc16 said:

Looool

 

You need 100k tons in the sea region where the nation you want to invade is located.

 

If you don't know how the game works, it will be frustrating, especially when modded

Thank you, but you don't need to be a Jerk about it...

Edited October 6, 2024 by Maximus Tyberius

[Fyredrake]

6 hours ago, NathanKell said:

Yeah that needs work. Happy to do some hacking if folks (or just @o Barão) figure out what behavior is actually desired.

 

Please send me a save from before you tried to refit the ship, so I can try to reproduce the problem. Failing that, send me a save where the old ship can at least be refitted again so I can reproduce.

 

And per the TAF thread, the batch ship generator is up. Was easier to do than I feared, I found some nice UI bits I could cannibalize easily.

I unfortunately dont have a save from before, I do know that I unlocked the new mk3 15" gun whilst the first set of ships was refitting however.  If that can help at least.  Otherwise I'm unfortunately at a dead end 😕 

[Maximus Tyberius]

10 hours ago, o Barão said:

 

And need to set the naval invasion target in the diplomacy tab to be applied next turn.

Also, the fleet tonnage requirements for a successful invasion change according to the port size.

I know that, just didn't know that the trigger for it to be available in the diplomacy tab was to have 100+ tons in the area... the Important issue is if it is even possible to subdivide Chile, Argentina and Brazil in more territories, so they don't die in one blow...

[Maximus Tyberius]

2 minutes ago, Maximus Tyberius said:

I know that, just didn't know that the trigger for it to be available in the diplomacy tab was to have 100+ tons in the area... the Important issue is if it is even possible to subdivide Chile, Argentina and Brazil in more territories, so they don't die in one blow...

My abilities are limited on this matter. I could actually make the map and draw the subdivisions, set the regions names and point out the ports locations and names, but I don't know how to make it work...

[NathanKell]

10 hours ago, DosMan said:

I just installed everything according to the guide and have downgraded to 1.0.6.6 opt4 with melon 6.4 and i think the issue is the TaF file? it has been updated for 1.0.6.7 and i cant get the older versions anywhere i could find ive been trying for hours to get it to work but nothing is helping, any help would be appreciated

Just use 1.6.0.7, make sure AI Designs are on Slow.

3 hours ago, Fyredrake said:

I unfortunately dont have a save from before, I do know that I unlocked the new mk3 15" gun whilst the first set of ships was refitting however.  If that can help at least.  Otherwise I'm unfortunately at a dead end 😕 

As I said, a current save will work as a fallback. Just tell me what the designs (pre and post refit) are.

[o Barão]

10 hours ago, NathanKell said:

Yeah that needs work. Happy to do some hacking if folks (or just @o Barão) figure out what behavior is actually desired.

About the research you don't need to do anything. 

 

 There is a vanilla "aitechmod" (and others) modifier in the "aipersonalities" file that I am almost sure to be the reason why the player is seeing Britain with an advantage even at normal difficulty. 

 

I will apply a generic value for all nations in a future update. 

 

[NathanKell]

2 hours ago, o Barão said:

About the research you don't need to do anything. 

 

 There is a vanilla "aitechmod" (and others) modifier in the "aipersonalities" file that I am almost sure to be the reason why the player is seeing Britain with an advantage even at normal difficulty. 

 

I will apply a generic value for all nations in a future update. 

 

I'm confused, I thought we were talking about alliances? That was the thing JeeWeeJ tagged me about in that post.

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, NathanKell said:

I'm confused, I thought we were talking about alliances? That was the thing JeeWeeJ tagged me about in that post.

Then it is me that got confused. In JeeWee post, he talks about the research and alliances issue.

 

I just mentioned for you to not bother with the research issue, if that was the case, because I am almost sure I already have the solution. 

[JeeWeeJ]

I talked about them as two seperate issues.

(or at least, that was my intention)

Edited October 7, 2024 by JeeWeeJ

[flaviohc16]

4 hours ago, o Barão said:

Then it is me that got confused. In JeeWee post, he talks about the research and alliances issue.

 

I just mentioned for you to not bother with the research issue, if that was the case, because I am almost sure I already have the solution. 

Have you seen my post about the light cruisers and DDS suggestions/issues?

 

19 hours ago, flaviohc16 said:

I'm going with my USA 1890 campaign, normal difficulty, the year is 1930.

The economy is starting to snowball, but this is fine with 1930 USA, it's what happened after the recession.

 

Some little gripes I have @o Barão:

1) The towers on the modern light cruiser 2 (Cleveland) are wayyy too heavy, like 3000 tons for the primary tower and 2000 tons for the 2ndary turret on a 14000 ton ship.

2) modern light cruisers cost too much: my 13k tons heavy cruiser armed with 12x11' guns cost less than my Cleveland clone (also 13k tons)

3) 2 gun/turret on light cruisers come so late in the tech tree that they get almost outgunned by dds

4) Modern Torpedo boats: Imho you have 2 choices to make: either make them small dds or patrol boat, because right now they feel in the middle:

- with the 1000 tons limit even if I put on min drought and width I can't max the hull ( 1041 tons, but my limit is at 1000 tons), So if you want to do into the "mini DD territory" you could make them also accept 5' single guns (now limited to 4') and after they are unlocked (together with the 2200 tons dds), you could make them increase at the 3000 tons dds tech tier to 1200 tons and with the last dd tier (7500 tons) at 1500 tons TBs, so you can max out the hull if you want.

- If you want to make them small patrol boats, then they need to be smaller, the 1000 tons limit must be with the ship drought and width maxed out, and the size of the torpedo limited to 21'

5) alliances need some work, especially because you can't pullout of them if both nations are still at war. imho that needs to be changed, especially because with 18 nations it becomes a forever war. Ofc you would incur in heavy penalities, like your relations going from +100 to -70 so you are almost at war with them.

 

[vscoof]

1. Is it possible to bring back the smokes as a legitimate instrument of maritime warfare in dreadnought era?

The fact is that now even with historical accuracy it's pretty easy to outkill all the enemy CL & DD squadron remnants or aim its capital ships without escorts constantly blinding your all-big-guns.
2. Is it possible to allow unlocking the hulls of a major nation that was disabled by a player (like, on condition of controlling all its core provinces) without editing the vanilla resource files? 

Historically an ex-Austrian CRDA turned to bee one of the prominent Italian ship designers and builders; both Germany and USSR attempted to finish the construction of warships they captured on slipways. So there will be another great drive for a player to paint the map his chosen colour.

[SonicB]

1 hour ago, vscoof said:

1. Is it possible to bring back the smokes as a legitimate instrument of maritime warfare in dreadnought era?

The fact is that now even with historical accuracy it's pretty easy to outkill all the enemy CL & DD squadron remnants or aim its capital ships without escorts constantly blinding your all-big-guns.
2. Is it possible to allow unlocking the hulls of a major nation that was disabled by a player (like, on condition of controlling all its core provinces) without editing the vanilla resource files? 

Historically an ex-Austrian CRDA turned to bee one of the prominent Italian ship designers and builders; both Germany and USSR attempted to finish the construction of warships they captured on slipways. So there will be another great drive for a player to paint the map his chosen colour.

Can't stand the vanilla implementation of smoke in UAD - it's so arcadey and feels out of place. To make it even remotely authentic, you'd have to fix it so that the smoke cloud doesn't travel with the ship, but remains in its wake - or, strictly, speaking, moves in accordance with the prevailing wind direction and speed.

Then you'd have to make sure the AI could understand that and use it intelligently.

I suspect it would be such a tough task to implement without unwanted behaviour that it's better to remove it entirely.

If you think hitting small ships is currently too easy, are you on the 'arcade' or 'realistic' accuracy version of the mod?

[vscoof]

1 minute ago, SonicB said:

Can't stand the vanilla implementation of smoke in UAD - it's so arcadey and feels out of place. To make it even remotely authentic, you'd have to fix it so that the smoke cloud doesn't travel with the ship, but remains in its wake - or, strictly, speaking, moves in accordance with the prevailing wind direction and speed.

Then you'd have to make sure the AI could understand that and use it intelligently.

I suspect it would be such a tough task to implement without unwanted behaviour that it's better to remove it entirely.

If you think hitting small ships is currently too easy, are you on the 'arcade' or 'realistic' accuracy version of the mod?

I use realistic accuracy - yet the survivability of enemy light forces for now is lower than in vanilla game with smoke screens. Maybe it is due to AI changes or more realistic speed limits of NAR...

There were multiple ways to set a smoke screen like smoke generators or just changing  the fuel burning intencity - so the screen is supposed to move with a vessel (dispercing due to wind power and other weather conditions)

[SonicB]

6 minutes ago, vscoof said:

I use realistic accuracy - yet the survivability of enemy light forces for now is lower than in vanilla game with smoke screens. Maybe it is due to AI changes or more realistic speed limits of NAR...

There were multiple ways to set a smoke screen like smoke generators or just changing  the fuel burning intencity - so the screen is supposed to move with a vessel (dispercing due to wind power and other weather conditions)

Just to be clear, I'm saying that the smoke should be *produced* as a vessel moves, but the cloud should remain in its wake, as funnel and gun smoke behaves - not mysteriously hovering around the ship, no matter the speed, and obscuring it from all angles.

[SpardaSon21]

On 10/6/2024 at 2:50 PM, o Barão said:

About the research you don't need to do anything. 

 

 There is a vanilla "aitechmod" (and others) modifier in the "aipersonalities" file that I am almost sure to be the reason why the player is seeing Britain with an advantage even at normal difficulty. 

 

I will apply a generic value for all nations in a future update. 

 

There's a few other modifiers in there to look at such as aiTrainingMod, aiShipyardMod, and aiTrMod.  I don't know what "aiPlayerCounter" does and it seems to have an odd placement with those other modifiers.  There's also the TechMod settings for AI that seem to give boosts or priorities to categories, and the fact the USA gets boosts to torpedoes is hilarious given our traditional disregard there in favor of gunnery action.  Should be switched to gun layout given our innovations there.

Edited October 8, 2024 by SpardaSon21