Regarding historical gunnery accuracy

[GeneralVikus]

Hey guys,

I have been reading up on historical gunnery accuracy. I've found a good article here, which covers US Navy gunnery training in the interwar years, and provides some good figures though not systematically organized. International Naval Research Organization Articles - Evolution of Battleship Gunnery in the U.S. Navy - NavWeaps

 

Does anyone have any good sources pertaining to other time periods, especially with helpful tables? 

 

[Suribachi]

The only one I know of off the top of my head demonstrates how accurate the gun itself was.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7.php

Cavats out of the way:  Yes, this was done with Mark 7 guns which effectively were Mark 5 guns with a chrome lined barrel and a radar at the end of the muzzle to measure the shell velocity for follow up shots.  But the Iowa used this gun so I think it is still valid for the purpose of the game discussion.

TL;DR out of 15 shots fired at a distance of 34,000 yards, 8 shots landed within 150 yards of the center of the bullseye and 14 shots landed with 250 yards.  This means that you had one "flyer" that was outside that circle where all the others were.

Unfortunately, I don't really have anything for the gunnery crews them selves other than, based on the above, the guns were held back by the fire control systems, shell and charge technology of the time frame in a very broad sense.

[ijp8834]

I don't have too much real world data, but ai can go over some historical events. Especially late game tech, on undamaged ships, should be pretty dang accurate.

Denmark Straits had hits within the first few salvos, including a flooding hit on Bismarck, a bridge hit on Prince of Wales, and that magic below the waterline hit on Hood.

The subsequent battle had Rodney bracketed within the first few salvos, and a hit on Bismarck's fire control.

Guadalcanal has several examples of accuracy. Hiei against Atlanta and San Francisco come to mind, as well as Washington's slaughter of Kirishima.

Duke of York scored a hit on her first salvo against Scharnhorst, in a stormy, low visibility conditions.

West Virginia hit Yamashiro on her first salvo at Surigao Strait.

Basically, every major engagement between Battleships in WWII showed exceptional accuracy from one or both sides.

Going back to WWI-

Moltke managed 9 hits on Tiger in the first 12 minutes of Battle Cruiser action at Jutland. During those first 12 minutes at least 3 of the British ships sustained hits.

[SpardaSon21]

5 hours ago, ijp8834 said:

I don't have too much real world data, but ai can go over some historical events. Especially late game tech, on undamaged ships, should be pretty dang accurate.

Denmark Straits had hits within the first few salvos, including a flooding hit on Bismarck, a bridge hit on Prince of Wales, and that magic below the waterline hit on Hood.

The subsequent battle had Rodney bracketed within the first few salvos, and a hit on Bismarck's fire control.

Guadalcanal has several examples of accuracy. Hiei against Atlanta and San Francisco come to mind, as well as Washington's slaughter of Kirishima.

Duke of York scored a hit on her first salvo against Scharnhorst, in a stormy, low visibility conditions.

West Virginia hit Yamashiro on her first salvo at Surigao Strait.

Basically, every major engagement between Battleships in WWII showed exceptional accuracy from one or both sides.

Going back to WWI-

Moltke managed 9 hits on Tiger in the first 12 minutes of Battle Cruiser action at Jutland. During those first 12 minutes at least 3 of the British ships sustained hits.

And that's in hilarious contrast to the Battle of Manila Bay at the start of the Spanish-American War where a 3% hit rate by the USA was considered above-average for the time.

[madham82]

We think of 1890 to 1910s as not that long. But really we are talking 1970s computers vs 2000s computers in terms of the jump in fire control. 

[PalaiologosTheGreat]

On 2/17/2023 at 6:32 AM, ijp8834 said:

Guadalcanal has several examples of accuracy. Hiei against Atlanta and San Francisco come to mind, as well as Washington's slaughter of Kirishima.

 

In fairness Washington vs Kirishima was like 3 miles at night, so it should have been easy with good radar.