>>>Beta v1.1 Feedback<<< [RC 6]

[ZorinW]

45 minutes ago, ZorinW said:

There were also a number of high angle hits to the belt. They didn't trigger a partial-pen or pen either. Always over-pens. When I increased the belt armor to 25mm on the enemy DD then I got over-pens, parrtial-pens and pens depending on angle on the belt, as it should be.

 

Also, these extremly flat angle hits to the deck should result in a ricochet then or is there some hidden stats about those too?

 

And how is this avg pen of 257.8 mm  vs 0 mm (1mm min as you pointed out) to be explained?

 

Another issue, super structure hits. The super structure is also set to have 0 armor, yet the second highest hit pen was vs the funnel!

Managed to get the first partial-pen and over-pen vs 0 (1) mm deck armor. Only took me to increase the gun to 149.9/47 with Dunnite + Cap Ballistic I and a resulting deck pen of 8.2 mm at 1000m.Though most hits are still full pens.

 

And for whatever reason with the gun at 149.9/42 with 652 mm belt pen I just got a full pen vers 0 (1) mm belt armor.

 

This all doesn't make any sense.

Edited January 14, 2023 by ZorinW

[Abuse_Claws]

2 hours ago, TiagoStein said:

Also for some reason their ships miss much more than the player's

The AI seems to have very little regard for weight offset (or at least it used to), that's one of the reasons

Another one is it doesn't seem to invest enough in crew training and there's also a vicious circle: AI loses a lot of ships=> AI crews can't survive long enough to get experience => AI can't hit anything and therefore keeps losing ships

Also I'm not sure AI always selects the best available rangefinder

I'd love to see the AI design better and more powerful ships, but that seems to be an uphill battle for the devs.

While they are working on that, I would prefer the AI to have no more ships than it can effectively control (which seems to be about a dozen I'd say) even if it means limiting the player to 3-5 ships in battle to make fights more challenging.

Maybe even make special random events like 'massive battles', which would pop up on the map and require a certain tonnage, like naval invasions do now. That way epic battles would still happen, but not that often and the player would have the opportunity to skip them (maybe at the cost of some VPs or naval prestige, idk)

[admiralsnackbar]

1 hour ago, ZorinW said:

There were also a number of high angle hits to the belt. They didn't trigger a partial-pen or pen either. Always over-pens. When I increased the belt armor to 25mm on the enemy DD then I got over-pens, parrtial-pens and pens depending on angle on the belt, as it should be.

 

Also, these extremly flat angle hits to the deck should result in a ricochet then or is there some hidden stats about those too?

 

And how is this avg pen of 257.8 mm  vs 0 mm (1mm min as you pointed out) to be explained?

 

Another issue, super structure hits. The super structure is also set to have 0 armor, yet the second highest hit pen was vs the funnel!

I think average pen isn't calculating how much armor was penetrated but how much penetration was achieved at that particular hit. Mouse over your guns and see what the penetration values are at that range. 

So all of those overpens are overpens because you're guns at that range can penetrate ~10 inches of plate [in reality closer to 5] 

There is a minimum and maximum ricochet angle, certain shell types can handle obliquity better than others. This is shown if you mouse over the shells

in the parameters;

 

no_ricochet_threshold	1.5	n-penetration rule: if armor is too thin (n-times smaller than penetration), never ricochet
ricochet_angle_from	30	angle above this to side can produce ricochet (except he shells)
ricochet_angle_to	50	angle above this will give maximal ricochet chance
ricochet_chance	50	i f ricochet is possible due to angle, chance if its happening

[stew]

Turrets: Still some errors. Aft super firing turrets are still rotating in a way that has the barrels are moving through the structure of the tower. I have only noticed this on BB's. Also, the aft super firing turrets are not tracking targets and engaging, seems to be more prevalent on CL's. The cause seems to be when target is beyond the aft super firing turrets firing arc (target is straight ahead). The problem seems to be less consistent, although still present, when the target is on the beam. I have found in my experience so far, the only turret to do this is the after super firing gun in both cases (x turret when in AB XY configuration), no other turret position seems to have this problem.

Torpedo's are also not tracking. I will be in perfect firing position and they just don't engage. However, as soon as I issue a turn order, and sometimes when I change target, they suddenly decide to engage. These actions will also sometimes fixe the turret problems for a moment.

Graphical issues: Some places (might be more than some an I am not paying close enough attention), the land does not line up with the outline of the state. Very noticeable on islands like Hawai'i or Jamaica. Not causing any bugs I can see, just very annoying. Invasion reticules seem to line up with the outline, not land art. The land seems to be offset some distance south of the outline, which is probably why it isn't noticeable around continents. 

Hope this feedback helps. 

[ZorinW]

1 hour ago, admiralsnackbar said:

I think average pen isn't calculating how much armor was penetrated but how much penetration was achieved at that particular hit. Mouse over your guns and see what the penetration values are at that range. 

So all of those overpens are overpens because you're guns at that range can penetrate ~10 inches of plate [in reality closer to 5] 

There is a minimum and maximum ricochet angle, certain shell types can handle obliquity better than others. This is shown if you mouse over the shells

in the parameters;

 

no_ricochet_threshold	1.5	n-penetration rule: if armor is too thin (n-times smaller than penetration), never ricochet
ricochet_angle_from	30	angle above this to side can produce ricochet (except he shells)
ricochet_angle_to	50	angle above this will give maximal ricochet chance
ricochet_chance	50	i f ricochet is possible due to angle, chance if its happening

Maybe I am stupid, but the ricochet parameters don't make sense to me.

Should it not be that anything below 30° will give max ricochet chance and anything below 50° can "produce ricochet"?

[Suribachi]

28 minutes ago, ZorinW said:

Maybe I am stupid, but the ricochet parameters don't make sense to me.

Should it not be that anything below 30° will give max ricochet chance and anything below 50° can "produce ricochet"?

I could be wrong, but this is what I always read them as changing the angle of the two different lines.  What I mean by this:

+% Maximum AP-Shell Ricochet Angle :  Takes away from the "Max chance to ricochet" area from your picture and adds it to the "can ricochet" area by, using your picture, lessening the 30 degree angle area
+80% Minimum AP-Ricochet Angle :  Takes away from the "will not ricochet" area.  Not labelled in your picture, but let's call the next zone following "can ricochet" that by widening the area marked as 50 degree angle and keeping the 30 degree angle area where it is.

Our discussion on this is basically moot though until developers make a post saying how it works.


EDIT:  So as a working example, Semi AP trades overall pen power to receive less ricochet chance and more damage.  Capped Ballistic II's trade overall damage to receive less ricochet chance at extreme angles and raw pen power

Edited January 14, 2023 by Suribachi

[admiralsnackbar]

30 minutes ago, ZorinW said:

Maybe I am stupid, but the ricochet parameters don't make sense to me.

Should it not be that anything below 30° will give max ricochet chance and anything below 50° can "produce ricochet"?

This is how i intepretted it:

Angle A = 30 degrees angle a+b = 50

probability of ricochet > 0 if angle of impact is greater than a

probability of ricochet = max probability if angle of impact greater than a+b

where 0 degrees implies a flat angle

I say this because usually when i see formulas for penetration the angle used is the angle of obliquity. 

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Definition-of-projectile-notations-including-the-angle-of-attack-AoA-obliquity-angle_fig10_259515946

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by admiralsnackbar

[Suribachi]

I think @admiralsnackbar explained it much better than me haha

[ZorinW]

9 minutes ago, admiralsnackbar said:

This is how i intepretted it:

Angle A = 30 degrees angle a+b = 50

probability of ricochet > 0 if angle of impact is greater than a

probability of ricochet = max probability if angle of impact greater than a+b

where 0 degrees implies a flat angle

This would make ricochets basically the default for ranged combat. Especially with standard shells that have no modifier for ricochet angles. Wouldn't it?

 

Also: 

no_ricochet_threshold  =  1.5    n-penetration rule: if armor is too thin (n-times smaller than penetration), never ricochet

 

So having no armor means that shells will never ricochet, yet shouldn't they then still over-pen instead of resulting in a full pen? And why does it only happen with deck hits?

[admiralsnackbar]

4 minutes ago, ZorinW said:

This would make ricochets basically the default for ranged combat. Especially with standard shells that have no modifier for ricochet angles. Wouldn't it?

 

 

So having no armor means that shells will never ricochet, yet shouldn't they then still over-pen instead of resulting in a full pen? And why does it only happen with deck hits?

These are the parameters 

no_ricochet_threshold  =  1.5    n-penetration rule: if armor is too thin (n-times smaller than penetration), never ricochet

richochet_angle_from [30] = angle above this can produce richochet

Richochet_angle_to: [50] angle above this will give maximal richochet chance
richochet_chance: [50] if richochet is possible due to angle, chance if its happening

richochet_chance doesn't say maximal, average, minimal, etc. For example the function might be
richochet chance as a function of angle is 0 if < 30 degrees, interpolate from 0 to 50% between 30 and 50 degrees, and 50% if above 50 degrees. 

the no_richochet threshold means that if a shell's penetration is more than 1.5 times the armor of the target no richochet can happen, in that case it's going to be a pen 


This is my guess:

If deck pen value at range > 2x armor value [at zero armor you still have 1 inch] then you overpen
if deck pen value at range is >1.5 but <2 you will penetrate and not richochet

if deck pen value at range is >1 but <1.5 then you might richochet or penetrate depending on angle and luck

I also think there's a 5-10% chance factor in penetrations becoming partial penetrations and visa versa. 




 

[ZorinW]

57 minutes ago, admiralsnackbar said:

This is how i intepretted it:

Angle A = 30 degrees angle a+b = 50

probability of ricochet > 0 if angle of impact is greater than a

probability of ricochet = max probability if angle of impact greater than a+b

where 0 degrees implies a flat angle

I say this because usually when i see formulas for penetration the angle used is the angle of obliquity. 

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Definition-of-projectile-notations-including-the-angle-of-attack-AoA-obliquity-angle_fig10_259515946

 

Yes, but it is the angle of impact that is determining the ricochet chance or not? 

 

17 minutes ago, admiralsnackbar said:

These are the parameters 

no_ricochet_threshold  =  1.5    n-penetration rule: if armor is too thin (n-times smaller than penetration), never ricochet

richochet_angle_from [30] = angle above this can produce richochet

Richochet_angle_to: [50] angle above this will give maximal richochet chance
richochet_chance: [50] if richochet is possible due to angle, chance if its happening

richochet_chance doesn't say maximal, average, minimal, etc. For example the function might be
richochet chance as a function of angle is 0 if < 30 degrees, interpolate from 0 to 50% between 30 and 50 degrees, and 50% if above 50 degrees. 

the no_richochet threshold means that if a shell's penetration is more than 1.5 times the armor of the target no richochet can happen, in that case it's going to be a pen 


This is my guess:

If deck pen value at range > 2x armor value [at zero armor you still have 1 inch] then you overpen
if deck pen value at range is >1.5 but <2 you will penetrate and not richochet

if deck pen value at range is >1 but <1.5 then you might richochet or penetrate depending on angle and luck

I also think there's a 5-10% chance factor in penetrations becoming partial penetrations and visa versa. 




 

Given your guess, there should not be pens when I fire a shell (that has no modifiers) at 1 km range with 10 mm deck pen value at a 0 (1) mm deck. It should always overpen as the no ricochet threshold rule applies. Or not? 

Edited January 15, 2023 by ZorinW

[PalaiologosTheGreat]

Can we have a readout on the percent chance there will be a flaw on the 'Ship Design' screen?

[Stephensan]

1 minute ago, PalaiologosTheGreat said:

Can we have a readout on the percent chance there will be a flaw on the 'Ship Design' screen?

easy

 

its 

 

"alot of flaws" or zero flaws.

 

thank you for coming to my ted talk

[Urst]

2 minutes ago, PalaiologosTheGreat said:

Can we have a readout on the percent chance there will be a flaw on the 'Ship Design' screen?

I'd also like it if the Flaws stopped being listed once they're fixed by refits.

[admiralsnackbar]

1 hour ago, ZorinW said:

Yes, but it is the angle of impact that is determining the ricochet chance or not? 

 

Given your guess, there should not be pens when I fire a shell (that has no modifiers) at 1 km range with 10 mm deck pen value at a 0 (1) mm deck. It should always overpen as the no ricochet threshold rule applies. Or not? 

All armor has a minimum of 25mm whether you give it any armor or not. I mentioned this before. it's not shown  in game but it is shown in the parameters. 

So that being the case i think the min threshold for no richochet for a surface with no armor would be 1.5x25, but again i don't know if 'pen' means actual armor or effective armor due to angling.

Edited January 15, 2023 by admiralsnackbar

[ZorinW]

56 minutes ago, admiralsnackbar said:

All armor has a minimum of 25mm whether you give it any armor or not. I mentioned this before. it's not shown  in game but it is shown in the parameters. 

So that being the case i think the min threshold for no richochet for a surface with no armor would be 1.5x25, but again i don't know if 'pen' means actual armor or effective armor due to angling.

Sorry, mixed up inchs and mm there.

We really need @Nick Thomadis to clear up this whole issue.

Edited January 15, 2023 by ZorinW

[The PC Collector]

More things which need to be addressed before release: army calculations



Can anyone explain to me how the frick can the french have more army than I do? We have similar GDP, and I have 10 times their population. I can't believe I'm going to need a naval invasion to get that province. I assumed the second I got at war with them, land invasions from both Spain and Northern france would crush southern france instantly. But seems that the game thinks otherwise.

[admiralsnackbar]

25 minutes ago, The PC Collector said:

More things which need to be addressed before release: army calculations



Can anyone explain to me how the frick can the french have more army than I do? We have similar GDP, and I have 10 times their population. I can't believe I'm going to need a naval invasion to get that province. I assumed the second I got at war with them, land invasions from both Spain and Northern france would crush southern france instantly. But seems that the game thinks otherwise.

I don't know how military force is calculated but if it's just a function of GDP and military budget then that might explain it. 
 

name	NavalBudgetMod	GDPGrowthMod	RegionDevelopmentMod	MilitaryPowerMod	UnrestMod	nameUI	nameUIMod
AbsoluteMonarchy	1.2	0.93	0.95	1.13	1.15	Absolute Monarchy
ConstitutionalMonarchy	1.15	0.95	0.99	1.1	1.11	Constitutional Monarchy
NationalistsParty	1.1	0.94	1.01	1.2	1.09	Nationalists Party	Naval Budget
RightWingParty	1.05	1.06	1.02	1.01	1.06	Right Wing Party	GDP Growth
CentreParty	1.014	1.03	1.05	0.98	0.95	Centre Party	Province Income
LeftWingParty	0.98	0.95	1.15	0.95	0.9	Left Wing Party	Military Power
CommunistsParty	0.95	0.91	1.11	1.05	0.82	Communists Party	Unrest

[The PC Collector]

23 minutes ago, admiralsnackbar said:

I don't know how military force is calculated but if it's just a function of GDP and military budget then that might explain it. 
 

name	NavalBudgetMod	GDPGrowthMod	RegionDevelopmentMod	MilitaryPowerMod	UnrestMod	nameUI	nameUIMod
AbsoluteMonarchy	1.2	0.93	0.95	1.13	1.15	Absolute Monarchy
ConstitutionalMonarchy	1.15	0.95	0.99	1.1	1.11	Constitutional Monarchy
NationalistsParty	1.1	0.94	1.01	1.2	1.09	Nationalists Party	Naval Budget
RightWingParty	1.05	1.06	1.02	1.01	1.06	Right Wing Party	GDP Growth
CentreParty	1.014	1.03	1.05	0.98	0.95	Centre Party	Province Income
LeftWingParty	0.98	0.95	1.15	0.95	0.9	Left Wing Party	Military Power
CommunistsParty	0.95	0.91	1.11	1.05	0.82	Communists Party	Unrest

Well, whatever it is, is evident it is a very poor design choice which needs to be refined. Thanks for the reply anyways

Edit: Also, it seems that the bug of damaged ships going to random ports for repairs instead of the closest port is back.

Edited January 15, 2023 by The PC Collector

[The PC Collector]

Seems that the bug of insane population on reborn countries is still lurking around.

[aznfoo]

targeting is still messed up, and my ships are always aiming for the deck despite being within 5 km of an enemy ship, whatever you guys had when you first released the game worked so much better than it does now

[Mundus_Dog]

On 12/21/2022 at 5:13 PM, UncleAi said:

Should be v1.10, not V1.1🤔

that is the same exact thing lol the zero is assumed to be there because thats how decimals work. if i told you i have 12.50 fleets built it would be the same thing as me saying i have 12.5 fleets built. this is version 1.1 or ver. 1.10 the zero does not change anything except for making it longer. i know we dont really do that with money but we arent trading versions of the game and you still can its just that $57.9 doesnt look right to us because we are used to the zero. This isnt meant to be rude just informative sorry if it came across as rude. you are a lovely human keep your head up.

[KAIKAI]

Current beta , Difficulty : Legendary , after China dissolved , a couple of months later it came back again ,  and immediately on the next turn dissolved again , this lasted 5 years  . 

French on the other hand , after dissolved never come back and Spain as well . 

[TiagoStein]

15 hours ago, Abuse_Claws said:

The AI seems to have very little regard for weight offset (or at least it used to), that's one of the reasons

Another one is it doesn't seem to invest enough in crew training and there's also a vicious circle: AI loses a lot of ships=> AI crews can't survive long enough to get experience => AI can't hit anything and therefore keeps losing ships

Also I'm not sure AI always selects the best available rangefinder

I'd love to see the AI design better and more powerful ships, but that seems to be an uphill battle for the devs.

While they are working on that, I would prefer the AI to have no more ships than it can effectively control (which seems to be about a dozen I'd say) even if it means limiting the player to 3-5 ships in battle to make fights more challenging.

Maybe even make special random events like 'massive battles', which would pop up on the map and require a certain tonnage, like naval invasions do now. That way epic battles would still happen, but not that often and the player would have the opportunity to skip them (maybe at the cost of some VPs or naval prestige, idk)

 I think  a small  boost for AI  tech  , or automatically keep their tech investment and crew investment  at near max would be a good start. In my current japan  play I am in 1917, I have 10x 44K ton battleships and 2x 46 K ton ones all with turbo electric engines and krup IV. The next most powerful nation has 12K ton battleships with Nickel armor and  triple expanse engines.

[TiagoStein]

Also , regarding the uphill battle of ship design. Battleships should be rather easy, prioritize development of larger hulls. Set optimal speed, Insert  largest towers. Set best possible engine, best possible fuel best possible funnel tech. Add funnels  til you have 100% efficiency.  Add 2 turrets of the largest possible guns. Add 4 secondaries of 30-50% the caliber of the mains.

Set armor as predetermined by their own gun sizes.

Set all options to max. If ship is overweight reduce each  tech one by one until you make it fit. If in one cycle does not produce, reduce guns .

 

If  there is spare weight add guns, then add speed, then add armor in cycles until all weight is used.

 

That is how I make a ship, at least the first iteration and  it resutls in far better results than the game can.