Chasing the AI

[brucesim2003]

Custom battle observation.

So AI heavy ships ALWAYS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION put you on their quarter. Regardless of the situation, that is what they will do. Even if you are beyond their range to attack you.

With the AI's propensity to build speed boats, this devolves into a chase. It's very predictable and very frustrating, because at long rang there is NOTHING you can do about it.

Can this be looked at with some alacrity please.

[madham82]

I've only noticed the AI do it when it decided it was at a disadvantage, but agree it is a lame tactic due to current rules for custom battles (i.e. sink all ships). It is one thing to run when there is a chance of escape, but since withdraw is not an option the AI just tries to run in circles away from you. Without other changes to the battle rules, the AI needs to fight to the death not run like a coward. 

[Cpt.Hissy]

I've noticed AI that ran out of visual range to turn and start circling my fleet in a gigantic circle somewhere over 20 km away. They give themselves away by constantly appearing smoke "screens" on invisible ships

[brucesim2003]

13 hours ago, madham82 said:

I've only noticed the AI do it when it decided it was at a disadvantage, but agree it is a lame tactic due to current rules for custom battles (i.e. sink all ships). It is one thing to run when there is a chance of escape, but since withdraw is not an option the AI just tries to run in circles away from you. Without other changes to the battle rules, the AI needs to fight to the death not run like a coward. 

I've seen it do it when they outnumber me 2-1. As I said, ALWAYS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

[madham82]

4 hours ago, brucesim2003 said:

I've seen it do it when they outnumber me 2-1. As I said, ALWAYS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

So is this in a custom battle or mission? 

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

Ah, I see I'm not the only one who has noticed this AI pattern...

 

Be it on attack missions, or defend missions, or custom battles... they are always trying to run away, even if they are winning.

There have been cases where I have just exited missions in frustration because AIs have kept running away even when I was 10 hp with 2 engines destroyed and half-flooded, leading the battle to a stall where they ust run away and I can't do anything but to sit there seing how they get further and further away... like, WTF AI, YOUR MISSION IS TO SINK ME, COME AND SINK ME!

[brucesim2003]

18 hours ago, madham82 said:

So is this in a custom battle or mission? 

Custom battle, as I said in the 1st line of the OP.

[Stormnet]

16 hours ago, SPANISH_AVENGER said:

Ah, I see I'm not the only one who has noticed this AI pattern...

 

Be it on attack missions, or defend missions, or custom battles... they are always trying to run away, even if they are winning.

There have been cases where I have just exited missions in frustration because AIs have kept running away even when I was 10 hp with 2 engines destroyed and half-flooded, leading the battle to a stall where they ust run away and I can't do anything but to sit there seing how they get further and further away... like, WTF AI, YOUR MISSION IS TO SINK ME, COME AND SINK ME!

Often than not, when I go pre-dread custom battle, and make a "1 BB, 3 CA, 6/7 CL vs same" battle, the AI turns this into sorta of a boss battle.

It keeps the main battleship as far away as it can while sending the grunts against me. I essentially have to fight the AI grunts (and even they remain at a rather long distance for the 1905 era), and the AI doesnt send them all. It sends 1/2 Cruisers at a time, making sure to waste my time. During the whole time I never even got to look at the enemy BB, always outside the spotting range. 

Its almost like it wants to build suspense and tension up, for the big encounter.

[brucesim2003]

Just had a custom where the AI thought a 31kt battleship in 1914 was a good build.

Any other industry I'd be asking for a refund. I've become more and more disillusioned with this game after each patch. Removed from steam wish list, for what that's worth.

[madham82]

3 hours ago, brucesim2003 said:

Custom battle, as I said in the 1st line of the OP.

🤦‍♂️ 

2 hours ago, brucesim2003 said:

Just had a custom where the AI thought a 31kt battleship in 1914 was a good build.

Any other industry I'd be asking for a refund. I've become more and more disillusioned with this game after each patch. Removed from steam wish list, for what that's worth.

What's wrong with 31K ton BB in 1914? Most were lighter than that IRL. 

 

I would say nerfing the accuracy of ships that do not have direct sight of the target they are shooting at would force the AI to close the range, but I'm not sure there's something else buggy with its logic going on. 

[brucesim2003]

7 hours ago, madham82 said:

🤦‍♂️

What's wrong with 31K ton BB in 1914? Most were lighter than that IRL.

Sorry, I meant 31 knots.

[brucesim2003]

7 hours ago, madham82 said:

I would say nerfing the accuracy of ships that do not have direct sight of the target they are shooting at would force the AI to close the range, but I'm not sure there's something else buggy with its logic going on. 

No, that wouldn't work. They run away even when they're outside of their gun range. Can't nerf accuracy below 0%.

Edited April 27, 2021 by brucesim2003

[7thGalaxy]

On 4/27/2021 at 11:47 AM, brucesim2003 said:

Just had a custom where the AI thought a 31kt battleship in 1914 was a good build.

Any other industry I'd be asking for a refund. I've become more and more disillusioned with this game after each patch. Removed from steam wish list, for what that's worth.

The game's in alpha, not yet balanced because it's not yet feature complete. 

 

I imagine speed in general will be balanced better at some point. 

 

 

[madham82]

40 minutes ago, 7thGalaxy said:

The game's in alpha, not yet balanced because it's not yet feature complete. 

 

I imagine speed in general will be balanced better at some point. 

 

 

They have balanced it multiple times already. It is much better than it was, but now the AI just doesn't armor at all from the battles I've played. 

[Wowzery]

I've had a couple of videos I did where I had to end the recording simply because there was no way for me to chase down the AI ships.  Its actually affected some designs as I design now for speed so I can chase down the AI ships, or I hope for a lucky shot.  Its something I've only noticed since Alpha 11 was released.

[Cptbarney]

5 hours ago, Wowzery said:

I've had a couple of videos I did where I had to end the recording simply because there was no way for me to chase down the AI ships.  Its actually affected some designs as I design now for speed so I can chase down the AI ships, or I hope for a lucky shot.  Its something I've only noticed since Alpha 11 was released.

They changed the AI's behaviour from, lets get to suicide/ knife fighting range (Depending on ship class and design) to lets stay on the very edge of our max range or run away. Hence why I have said that there needs to be range brackets for both AI and player so it can switch to different range engagements based on, number of ships nearby how damaged the ship is, which range bracket is more effective etc. Once thats done its just making the AI smarter and adding more and more logic too the decision tree.

Also the salvo bug thing needs fixing too.

[disc]

On 4/27/2021 at 6:47 AM, brucesim2003 said:

Just had a custom where the AI thought a 31kt battleship in 1914 was a good build.

Well, HMS Princess Royal was completed 1912 and made 28 knots. HMS Renown was completed 1916 and made 32 knots. So, sounds pretty close... for a battlecruiser, anyway. Though Princess Royal had armor broadly comparable to battleships of about 10 years prior.

 

I'm still a bit uncertain how the AI makes range decisions, but I have seen them begin circling the player fleet if they are free to maneuver. They sometimes go well outside weapons range, and the destroyers -- not shooting or being shot at -- will launch smoke, giving away exact position and approximate heading. I think there are set distances that the AI tries to fulfill. Once it reaches that range, it will circle in order to maintain it.

TBs and destroyers will make suicide runs if you get close, but battleships will typically angle away from the nearest enemy. This may be related to the escort mechanic.

[brucesim2003]

6 hours ago, disc said:

Well, HMS Princess Royal was completed 1912 and made 28 knots. HMS Renown was completed 1916 and made 32 knots. So, sounds pretty close... for a battlecruiser, anyway.

And if it had been a battlecruiser, I wouldn't be quite so annoyed.

[disc]

What sort of tradeoffs did it make for the speed? If the answer is "not many," then that's not too ideal!

My own experience has been that the AI's fast "battleships" tend to be very fragile, but of course I don't know what you saw.

[madham82]

26 minutes ago, disc said:

What sort of tradeoffs did it make for the speed? If the answer is "not many," then that's not too ideal!

My own experience has been that the AI's fast "battleships" tend to be very fragile, but of course I don't know what you saw.

Likewise. It tends to design BBs to be more like Jackie Fisher's early ideas on BCs.