My suggestion on how to make basic navigation fun, engageing and

[Haddock]

Here is my advice on how the developers should handle the basic navigation on the world map in Naval action.

First of all remove the minimap that show the ships exact position.

Instead the player will be able to open up is chart table where he can select the what chart he wants to have active, (preferbly the chart covering his present area).
The chart will be big scale and small scale depending on what type of navigating he need to handle,

When be near coastal area and need to keep clear of different reefs, shoals and grounds he will need to use a in zoomed chart.


How the navigation then will be is like this: You will use your telescope that also show you the compas bearing, look for landmark or a distinct coastal formation, not the bearing in the compass and then go to the chart over the area you are in, but a stright line from the object and across the chart, in the bearing you saw the object in.
The do this again to another object. and repeat the same procedure in the chart. where the to lines cross eachother is your aproxematly position.

(Another wahy to do it is: to take the bearing to the same object but after a little while, and calculate speed and time, but that is just slightly more advanced)

This is a very easy way to handle the navigation of the game, it is alsoe vary engageing and fun! This will make sure that regular sailing never gets boring

I have provided a few picture of how I think of it.

[Haddock]

Note that I have not provided the second telscop visual for the other coastline, just two different ways to show compas in the telescop, of the same lighthouse.

The first picture is a sample of how c chart could look like for that area, it would be very great if you dould put out your own track line so you know where you want to be aproximately.
The second picture is how it really is,
Thurd picture is how you draw the lines in your own chart.

4th and 5th picture is of the same lighthouse just different way to show bearing. But you would need to have checked for the other coastbearing aswell

[Windy]

The idears are sound BUT we DONT have any charts ATM, it a big open world and we need to chart them, when we have these maps the Naval board would distribute them, or we as explores could sell them.

 

So back to navigating, you need Sexton, to shot the sun at Miday, according to your Crinomiter, a special type of clock used by sailers.

Then when you have this you can plot your Lat and Lon. from there you not your speed direction, every hour to get a dead reconing position until the next day when you reshoot the sun for your next pos. fix.

 

When land is sighted the takeing compass bearings will start to fill your map.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Haddock]

I left the he part about open ocean navigation out just becouse they have not really said anything about how it will work.

But your idea is what I also think would work. The thing is to keep it not too complicated, if they find a way to keep the sun/moon/star navigation without complicated formulas or by the use of tables it will work.

People need to be able to understand how it world pretty easy without reading a while book about astronomic navigation

[ObiQuiet]

First of all remove the minimap that show the ships exact position.

 

I understand your desire for charts.  I want to point out that the mini map is valuable for a different reason than navigation.   It replaces the peripheral vision and situational awareness that you can't get with a flat screen.  

 

At first it annoyed me that the range was so small but then I realized that it provides almost exactly the same amount of perception that you would get standing on the deck:  what's near by, friend or foe, whether they are on a converging or diverging course, relative speed...

 

In other words, it makes up for not having the controller's surround view of this remote controlled airport in Sweden:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/swedish-airport-to-have-traffic-controlled-remotely-1415035599  

(if the paywall blocks you, try this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/11384568/The-worlds-first-remote-controlled-airport.html )

 

A fan of the mini-map,

Respecfully yours,

etc.

[Cannonball]

Ahh cool I see what you mean there by plotting two points out to get a reference. That's cool I can get behind this :-)

[Brigand]

I like the idea proposed in the OP. Yet, I'm not sure it is compatible with the expectations of a lot of players ('I can't figure out where I am, this game sucks'). I would love to work with the uncertainty of not being 100% sure I got the right geographical feature, but it may not work well for everybody.

 

I think if this process was to be made partly automated (let's say the lines are drawn on you map automatically) it would have far better chance of being accepted. This would of course eliminate a lot of the uncertainty. However, some of the uncertainty could very well be brought into the automated process, by having the readings be more accurate on more detailed maps. This would have an added bonus of making detailed maps a sought after commodity: you surely want to buy a good map of your home seas, yet, if you venture out further from home (and you did not buy the best maps yet), you encounter a lot more uncertainty about where you are (are there any shallows I don't know about?), which add to the feeling of adventure and ties in really nicely with the announced exploration gameplay.

 

A think this is definitely an idea that is worth exploring, it could add a major feature to shape the feel of the game!

 

Cheers,

Brigand

[Haddock]

Yes my idea is just that, an idea. I just would like to see some kind of feature like this, it does not have to be just like this.
But you get a what I mean at least.
Maybe it is too hardcore for peopel? I dont really know, its just I would like to have this in the game. Becouse like many other open world game I have more fun traveling and not just battle all the time. And to make the travel fun and engaging I think this is one way to do it. You would need to be active most of the time you travel near coastal area that have reefs and shoals that can damage your ship.

But maybe its to hardcore? When I thougnt about it, I dident think that. I mean not even a 5 min tutorial would easy get people in to the basics.

 

And of course this ide is only fun and game if the game have mechanincs that punish the player if hes not doing it right, like running aground and get damge to your hull etc. If there not will be anythink like that maybe this idea is no so necessary?
 

[Brigand]

(I for one would rather not have it automated.)

I don't think that drawing the lines yourself is too hard for people. I think that judging if a cliff you see through your telescope is this or that one on a map is the hard part. It could be difficult for people to recognize natural terrain features or even lighthouses if the 3D models are re-used. It may lead to frustration on the side of the player, even more so if the make a series of mistakes and end up somewhere they did not expect, while they where 'absolutely sure' they had it all correct. In the real world, you can only blame yourself for such mistakes, in a game world, you can blame it on external factors, such as bad game design, buggy tools, unintuitive UI, unfair feature, unreasonable hard, you name it. This is why I proposed automating part of the human error away, and replace it by artificially created error of judgement instead.

I'm not saying it is a better idea, I just thought I would toss up another point of view.

Cheers,

Brigand

[PiR]

Sounds very cool but, sadly and as mentioned above, some players won't find this enjoyable. Maybe in some area which are not well known by the faction's player?

 

Please, forgive my English.

 

Cheers.

[Haddock]

 

Sounds very cool but, sadly and as mentioned above, some players won't find this enjoyable. Maybe in some area which are not well known by the faction's player?

 

Please, forgive my English.

 

Cheers.

 

But the question is as always, how many dont like it and how many do like it?

Maybe we should do a poll?

[Brigand]

We should first flash out the idea some more, there is plenty of room for additional thoughts and refinements.

 

~Brigand

[Haddock]

We should first flash out the idea some more, there is plenty of room for additional thoughts and refinements.

 

~Brigand

Absolutley, just made a response to when people say that other people wont like it.

As it seem by reading these forum there is plenty of people that like little more heavy game style (like long distances, and some who dont). So just to defend agains the "some people wont like it" ofc some wont, but how many of all is the question.

And its absolutely to early for a poll, it need to be worked on.

[Haddock]

Any more people having thoughts and idea about this? 

[Grim DeGrim]

I like it.

[Jack Freedom]

love the idea of using the map to chart out your trajectory. This should make traveling less tedious for people who don't have the patience. But then again is this game being marketed at people who have little patience? I mean this is what it really comes down to. People who want to travel form town to town in an instant. People who want to dock by pushing a button in an instant. For them everything has to be now.

 

I think this game is targeted at an audience who is interested in this time period. They want to learn more about it and they want to experience it. I hope the devs don't steer away too much from that by trying to cater to the COD or Battlefield crowd who just want to sit and instantly be rewarded (instant gratification).

Edited April 6, 2015 by Jack Freedom

[Sir Cloudsley-Shovell]

Regarding Navigational Charts,check out NOAA,they have loads and appear to be free.For RN Navigational Charts its a bit more of a problem as most are housed in the National Archives and havent yet been digitised,also there is a fee for them.

[Macjimm]

The gameplay will be enhanced if skill is required to navigate. Triangulation, dead rekoning and celestial orientation would help create a challenge. If the game is too easy it quickly becomes boring. Perhaps this could be optional so that those who prefer a magical position icon on an expanding map have an alternative.

Give me a compass, clock, sextant and calendar in my ship and the sun to steer by. Could draw our own maps. Exploration.

[Drunken Sailor]

I like the idea.  Maybe it would be possible for the devs to add a realism setting that can go from low (arcade type) to high (plotting your position manually) with different levels in between (like automatic plotting).  If there is a setting players can use to get closer to immediate gratification for those who want it, but also  a way to give a good challenge to those who want that, it might just work out well.

[LTCjRet]

... go from low (arcade type) to high (plotting your position manually) with different levels in between (like automatic plotting).  If there is a setting players can use to get closer to immediate gratification for those who want it, but also  a way to give a good challenge to those who want that, it might just work out well.

It is a possible compromise but there should be a clearcut advantage to using advanced levels. For instance, the time compression could be boosted for a 15% speed advantage over a long distance route for the most involved method. 

 

In particular, chart making should call for the most advanced method and charts constructed as such should command a premium price on an open market.

Edited April 13, 2015 by LTCjRet

[Mirones]

Here is my advice on how the developers should handle the basic navigation on the world map in Naval action.

First of all remove the minimap that show the ships exact position.

 

cant remember seeing one while testing it. must be one of the reasons why i was ploting my course with an old scool atlas on my lap

[Similon]

My 2 lines of thought on this:

 

1) I enjoy sailing, gunnery, looking at pretty ships et cetera. I do not enjoy trigonometry, cartography, spotting specifically shaped rocks et cetera.

If this was required, I think I'd consider it an active deterrent, designed to force everybody but the most hardcore enthusiasts to stop playing. I can appreciate that this game is aimed at enthusiasts, but I have always kinda assumed they want to appeal to a slightly wider market. Besides, it's marketed as "Naval Action" and not "Navigation Simulator" - I can already see the negative reviews forming, and I do really want this game to succeed.

 

2) I can see how this could be fun (or at least interesting) the first few times, but I'm fairly certain I'd get sick of it fairly quickly.

 

That said, I want them to make the game they want to make, regardless.

If they do want to implement potentially exclusionary mechanics, I will respect and support that. I'll still spend money on the game, recommend it to anybody I think would like it, and (hopefully) enjoy it.

[Macjimm]

2) I can see how this could be fun (or at least interesting) the first few times, but I'm fairly certain I'd get sick of it fairly quickly.

I think the opposite is true. If navigation is too easy the element of exploration would be tiresome and uninteresting. Perhaps there are many players who wish to do battle (or trade etc) and are not much interested in the fascination of pursuing the quest of uncovering unknown areas. They may not be attracted by the thrill of discovery. But some players may enjoy detailed exploration much more than combat or trade.

If the developers allow for at least two methods of orientating they may be able to satisfy most of the player base. It just may be possible to toggle an option for the blackout map with a magic ship icon for players who get sick of calculations fairly quickly.

[LTCjRet]

I spent 23 years applying these techniques in land navigation where the task is much more difficult due line of sight obstructions and a multitude more numerous terrain features.  If it took me much more than a day or two to get the basics down I'm misremembering. It was the same with aviation navigation. 

 

I see two potential game enhancements around this technique:

 

With some sort of chart mode the navigation task should be only slightly challenging but likely to even be a welcome distraction over long routes. Other than captains taking periodic scans of the horizon the developers will have to generate graphics for the ship's company gathering for sea shanties to avoid glazed eyes.

 

From an economic and naval standpoint a much more interesting challenge would be for chart making. Ignoring the fact that all ships in unknown waters would have done this, an entire class of mission could be centered around this.  Survey ships employing these techniques could fan out developing charts.  The more care taken, the more accurate - and VALUABLE - the chart would be.

 

A ship surveying along a route at speed could to some extent estimate the approximate size of islands by plotting the distribution of observable peaks.  These initial surveys could be used to plan much more detailed followup surveys while providing useful preliminary charts for naval forces.

 

Charts from one region could be traded to be used by other nations that hadn't or couldn't survey the region. For that matter, the most accurate charts could be reserved for national assets while lower accuracy charts were sold to foreign markets.  An entire game, craft and/or economy could be built around this.

 

The developers have already moved beyond the idea that all aspects of the game must be equally enjoyable to every player.  If there is too much emphasis on pandering to the lowest common denominator then they'll eventually be trying to compete for market share with Spongebob Squarepants in nautical themed franchises. I'd welcome at least a little more diversity and challenge.

[Captain Corcoran]

For open world exploration (where you personally have never been) a Captain should have to, for lack of a better phrase "Second star to the right and straight on till morning".

For Captains that know an area would have a map and should be able to navigate from the cardinal waypoints he/she sets. Maybe an option to have a ping on the compass in the HUD to show what direction the ping is.

setting a ping on your compass would be something like clicking on your uncovered map.. Just ideas, maybe a bit too easy?

 

I do like the idea of having to learn BASIC navigation to play a game though. beit a simplified version, afterall were here to have fun and not change career in real  life ;-p .

 

Please do add a map and plotting tools i thing it would add an extra fun factor to the Explorer in us all.

 

but what do i know, i arent even testing ;-( /cry

 

 

damn my english grammer sucks /soz

Edited April 14, 2015 by Captain Corcoran