The 1920s, Washington Naval Treaty and the effects on the game

[Tankaxe]

Hello everyone I would like to open up thread to talk about battleship development in the 1920s and the pause of battleship construction from the Washington Naval Treaty and how it would affect this game. I don't want this game to fall into the same trap RtWs fell into in this era with AI ships templates going by treaty limits when the player has no reservations to be bound by a treaty that was never signed.

 

The 1920s would've given birth to warships that are the apex of battleship construction and it would only grow from there because naval aviation was still in its infancy. While most techs are available from what I've seen in custom battle designers in 1920-26 the 18" gun seems to be a 1930s tech which might upset people who would like to build an G3 design. Battleship designs would also be serious unknowns after the initial batch of designs and trends drops of by the WNT. This would require creativity in regards to superstructure design and hulls by navies who weren't a naval power and plans on what the next generation of battleships would look like if construction wasn't stopped.

 

While I'm ambivalent to Iowa, Bismarck and Yamato hulls and superstructure (a topic for another time) I believe that it is crucial to factor in what is a non-WNT naval world. Thus I would like open this thread about this and open to discussion in regards to non-WNT gameplay.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Tankaxe

[disc]

An interesting possibility would be player-influenced auto-generated treaties. Restrictions could be developed after a "treaty" event where the player provides input. The player and computer-led nations would be constrained by these values for a set amount of time, provided they signed said agreement. The computer should have a low chance to sign if a major potential enemy (eg the player) refuses to do so.

[Cptbarney]

1 hour ago, disc said:

An interesting possibility would be player-influenced auto-generated treaties. Restrictions could be developed after a "treaty" event where the player provides input. The player and computer-led nations would be constrained by these values for a set amount of time, provided they signed said agreement. The computer should have a low chance to sign if a major potential enemy (eg the player) refuses to do so.

Could have repercussions as well if you pull out early or refuse to sign, such as worse diplomatic relations or worse trade and a loss of prestige or something. Which may or may not effect your standing within the game at all.

[CapnAvont1015]

7 hours ago, Tankaxe said:

Hello everyone I would like to open up thread to talk about battleship development in the 1920s and the pause of battleship construction from the Washington Naval Treaty and how it would affect this game. I don't want this game to fall into the same trap RtWs fell into in this era with AI ships templates going by treaty limits when the player has no reservations to be bound by a treaty that was never signed.

 

The 1920s would've given birth to warships that are the apex of battleship construction and it would only grow from there because naval aviation was still in its infancy. While most techs are available from what I've seen in custom battle designers in 1920-26 the 18" gun seems to be a 1930s tech which might upset people who would like to build an G3 design. Battleship designs would also be serious unknowns after the initial batch of designs and trends drops of by the WNT. This would require creativity in regards to superstructure design and hulls by navies who weren't a naval power and plans on what the next generation of battleships would look like if construction wasn't stopped.

 

While I'm ambivalent to Iowa, Bismarck and Yamato hulls and superstructure (a topic for another time) I believe that it is crucial to factor in the factor that is a non-WNT naval world. Thus I would like open this thread about this and open to discussion in regards to non-WNT gameplay.

If Naval Treaties were to be added they would most likely happen after a major event such as a World War. I don't think people will be happy if after every time you win a war with another Nation a treaty pops up.

[akd]

A proper sandbox campaign for this era would have its own treaty-making mini-game.  Arbitrarily imposing historical treaties makes no sense.

[madham82]

An option when beginning a new campaign to be "historical or ahistorical" should be essential. I believe Hearts of Iron has a similar option. Beyond that I like the ideas of something like a mini-game to create completely new treaties and consequences for signing/not signing.  

[TotalRampage]

5 minutes ago, madham82 said:

An option when beginning a new campaign to be "historical or ahistorical" should be essential. I believe Hearts of Iron has a similar option. Beyond that I like the ideas of something like a mini-game to create completely new treaties and consequences for signing/not signing.  

RTW2 has an option to start after ww1 at the beginning of the like 1920's. It could be cool if you could during the campaign instead of starting at the earliest start choose an era like the 20's or 30's and then hit a box with historical limitations. That could let you start with techs maybe you want and also play within limitations if you choose to. 

[madham82]

1 minute ago, TotalRampage said:

RTW2 has an option to start after ww1 at the beginning of the like 1920's. It could be cool if you could during the campaign instead of starting at the earliest start choose an era like the 20's or 30's and then hit a box with historical limitations. That could let you start with techs maybe you want and also play within limitations if you choose to. 

Agreed, probably give the latest start date of 1930. More options, the more replay ability.

[TotalRampage]

2 minutes ago, madham82 said:

Agreed, probably give the latest start date of 1930. More options, the more replay ability.

Honestly, initially they probably couldn't but later on I don't see why it wouldn't work. Like you said it just adds more replayability. Also maybe the player could make a treaty before the launch of the game. Now that would be awesome

[IronKaputt]

2 minutes ago, TotalRampage said:

Also maybe the player could make a treaty before the launch of the game.

I see treaty as a game difficulty settings. And /or option for ones, who don't want to build H-45 just because AI does so.

[TotalRampage]

Just now, IronKaputt said:

I see treaty as a game difficulty settings. And /or option for ones, who don't want to build H-45 just because AI does so.

Ya just giving the player the option is enough. Difficulty in this game is probably going to correlate heavily to how much money the ai vs the player is given. So if someone wants to add a treaty in correlation to a harder difficulty they can. Or maybe they like the difficulty just want to try out a treaty limit so there is no surprises. 

[disc]

I think another valuable piece could be stretching or breaking the treaty. For example, your "10000 ton"-limited cruiser might actually displace 11000 tons, or you might start building a new destroyer flotilla when forbidden by the treaty. Depending on their opinion of you, other nations might denounce you or otherwise become very mad if they figure out what's going on. Or they might shrug if off if they like you or it's really minor. Of course, maybe you might discover them cheating, too....

[TotalRampage]

3 hours ago, disc said:

I think another valuable piece could be stretching or breaking the treaty. For example, your "10000 ton"-limited cruiser might actually displace 11000 tons, or you might start building a new destroyer flotilla when forbidden by the treaty. Depending on their opinion of you, other nations might denounce you or otherwise become very mad if they figure out what's going on. Or they might shrug if off if they like you or it's really minor. Of course, maybe you might discover them cheating, too....

The could be a good idea. We would need like a spy defense level to keep that a secret. Say if you have shit spy defense people can see and force war unless you scrap the ships. But if the ships already built they might sanction you or something.