Plans for Reputation and Sailing changes

[Despe]

I think that the punt of wiew od Redman and Tiedeman here is the correct. Put availbale the port bonuses for neutral crafters is not a reasonable option anyway. This destroy all efforts of clan members and friends in build the port. I waste tons of time farming fleets for get chests, like all my mates in faction, and put port bonuses available for neutrals is an insult to this efforts.

[Archaos]

8 minutes ago, Tiedemann said:

The effort that goes into upgrading a port fully is immense. We would not bother to do it if it was open for all (with neutral karma). Then we could just sit on our hands and wait until someone else upgrades their port. And go in with our neutral alt characters there to craft ships. Resources would be gathered the same way and we would use alts in the correct nation to actually sail the stuff to the crafting port. This will give absolutely NOTHING to the clans that owns the port and actually did all the work.

When it is done in a organized way there will be no more PvP opportunities. And as long as extracting/crafting resources, cannons, ships etc. does not contribute to tax for the clan owning the port they  get nothing in return. 

The way I see this is that it is a rip-off and the port bonus feature can just be removed from the game, because it will be accessible to all players who have more than 1 character.   

As I said a decision by a person to not bother upgrading and taking advantage of other peoples hard work is their own choice, but people will still upgrade ports.

Your response does not address what is already happening with alt abuse and people allowing their friends from other nations have alts in their clans to give them access to crafting bonuses. The game is already one sided with a single nation having so much power and when they can use that power to coerce people from other nations to be compliant then it is not good for the game.

I know people say that it is a slap in their face for all their hard work in upgrading, but isn't the main reason that it takes away some of their superiority and allows people to compete with the same level of ships? Look at RvR at present to see how bad a situation the game is in end game content. One nation decides who can do what and they let the other nations carry on with petty squabbles among themselves with big brother stepping in when they feel like. The players of that nation are quite comfortable because they only have to be interested in RvR when it suits them, they dont have to frantically gather people up to defend an attack, they know if any nation challenges them that they can crush them, and okay this karma patch may not stop that happening, but at least it removes one of the threats that can be held over other nations clans that seek to challenge the one nation superiority. 

[Redman29]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

Very good analysis, but you fail to mention a huge bonus you get with this system, and that is that if everybody crafts their ships in a single port then it makes that port an even more important hub and that attracts more trade to that port which increases the income that port makes and decreases the income other nations crafting ports make.

As you admit at the moment you are already circumventing the system by allowing known alts from other nations who are your friends into your clan so they can get access to the port bonuses. This gives you a form of control over them and allows you manipulate them with the threat of removal if they do not comply. Is this fair to other people who do not know you or are not on your friends list?

One of the biggest complaints about the friend list crafting system is the ability of the owning clan to remove people at will, even if the people have also contributed to the port development previously. This change at least goes some way to rectifying that.

At the end of the day you always have the option of not developing a port and relying on other peoples work, but I am sure most people will still develop ports. The only difference is the owners of developed ports will lose some control and not be able to manipulate people which I think is a good thing.

The problem is the owner of the port doesn't benefit from ships crafted there. As for trade, well trade goods are already damn near impossible to buy at VC, NO, Oranjested, St John's, San Juan, so that won't change. Yeah ship and upgrade sales might go up but nothing close to offset the amount of people crafting there.

You don't know me very well then. I don't use my clan to threaten or manipulate. I have simple rules, if we end up at war with one another you get kicked and if you cause issues for me in which I have to deal with it then you get kicked. Other than that there are no strings attached. Hell, some of the people I've allowed in I don't particularly like but were invited because of a favor for someone else.

Usually if a clan gets removed from the friends list it is because of something they've done or inter clan disputes. It is part of inter-clan diplomacy and nation diplomacy. This entire system is to remove false flags is it not? So what's worst, a false flag or working against the interests of your own flag. Now with that being said, I do agree that some of the reasons for removing a clan from the friends list if BS but is still and aspect of the game.

Oh we will most defiantly stop upgrading ports. 1400 Wooden Chests (127 Home Defense Fleets), 460 Mil in Money Chests, 70+ hours of grinding and that is for one port. What benefit does the owner of the port get out of this system, or the clans who have worked so hard to get the best ships possible? For everyone and their brother who only have to not join a battle to now be able to craft at your port with having to do none of the leg work or grind or effort to get it to that point. So removing clans from friends list is not fair, then how is this any better to the people who put in the time or effort to get their port where it is now?

[GhostOfDorian]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

Very good analysis, but you fail to mention a huge bonus you get with this system, and that is that if everybody crafts their ships in a single port then it makes that port an even more important hub and that attracts more trade to that port which increases the income that port makes and decreases the income other nations crafting ports make.

As you admit at the moment you are already circumventing the system by allowing known alts from other nations who are your friends into your clan so they can get access to the port bonuses. This gives you a form of control over them and allows you manipulate them with the threat of removal if they do not comply. Is this fair to other people who do not know you or are not on your friends list?

One of the biggest complaints about the friend list crafting system is the ability of the owning clan to remove people at will, even if the people have also contributed to the port development previously. This change at least goes some way to rectifying that.

At the end of the day you always have the option of not developing a port and relying on other peoples work, but I am sure most people will still develop ports. The only difference is the owners of developed ports will lose some control and not be able to manipulate people which I think is a good thing.

Well, if you agree so much in this new system that everybody should be able to craft with port bonuses others did a lot of work for, then we might just restart the port bonuses and go back to zero. Clans get their invested doublons, CM's, Victory Marks, wooden chests and reals back, and have a new chance to decide, if they wanna invest those goods again into port bonuses all others can participate in the same way as those who did the work. Or they decide to use the fruiits of their work to built ships to buy rare logs and to wait for you and others who only want to participate from other people work until you have upgraded a port others can participate without paying anything for.

Do you think that such a system will work out well for everybody, when you have to do the work and we can exploit it?

[Despe]

4 minutes ago, Archaos said:

As I said a decision by a person to not bother upgrading and taking advantage of other peoples hard work is their own choice, but people will still upgrade ports.

Your response does not address what is already happening with alt abuse and people allowing their friends from other nations have alts in their clans to give them access to crafting bonuses. The game is already one sided with a single nation having so much power and when they can use that power to coerce people from other nations to be compliant then it is not good for the game.

I know people say that it is a slap in their face for all their hard work in upgrading, but isn't the main reason that it takes away some of their superiority and allows people to compete with the same level of ships? Look at RvR at present to see how bad a situation the game is in end game content. One nation decides who can do what and they let the other nations carry on with petty squabbles among themselves with big brother stepping in when they feel like. The players of that nation are quite comfortable because they only have to be interested in RvR when it suits them, they dont have to frantically gather people up to defend an attack, they know if any nation challenges them that they can crush them, and okay this karma patch may not stop that happening, but at least it removes one of the threats that can be held over other nations clans that seek to challenge the one nation superiority. 

you point of wiew is totally incorrect in my opinion. You said that put alts in friend list is an alt abuse but i guess that neutrals alts crafting is much more alt abuse that this, they are stole the effort of others for craft good ships for their main accounts... It is not for you a very big alt abuse that? Much more that know players in other factions that can craft in ports because you put him on friend list. And talking about superiority of a faction, you only said the same that all taht cry here in forums when their battles dont go ok_ "Russian is a devil" "Russia kill the game", Russia bla bla bla... We play the game and we sometimes win and sometimes lose. In this game there will be always a dominat faction because this is a war game, it is simple. And a system that allows neutral craft with por bonuses is an insult to the efforts os most mates of me. Veracruz has now 72 port points, and this is becase me and my faction mates spend hours and hours farming stupid and bored privaters fleets for take chest. And all my PvP wooden chest rewards go directly to port investements, not for my private stuff. And i think it's no fair that this effort can be used by someone who uses their alter to craft in veracruz and after use that ship in his main account. This is for me the definition of alt abuse. And it is an insult.

[Archaos]

3 minutes ago, Redman29 said:

The problem is the owner of the port doesn't benefit from ships crafted there. As for trade, well trade goods are already damn near impossible to buy at VC, NO, Oranjested, St John's, San Juan, so that won't change. Yeah ship and upgrade sales might go up but nothing close to offset the amount of people crafting there.

You don't know me very well then. I don't use my clan to threaten or manipulate. I have simple rules, if we end up at war with one another you get kicked and if you cause issues for me in which I have to deal with it then you get kicked. Other than that there are no strings attached. Hell, some of the people I've allowed in I don't particularly like but were invited because of a favor for someone else.

Usually if a clan gets removed from the friends list it is because of something they've done or inter clan disputes. It is part of inter-clan diplomacy and nation diplomacy. This entire system is to remove false flags is it not? So what's worst, a false flag or working against the interests of your own flag. Now with that being said, I do agree that some of the reasons for removing a clan from the friends list if BS but is still and aspect of the game.

Oh we will most defiantly stop upgrading ports. 1400 Wooden Chests (127 Home Defense Fleets), 460 Mil in Money Chests, 70+ hours of grinding and that is for one port. What benefit does the owner of the port get out of this system, or the clans who have worked so hard to get the best ships possible? For everyone and their brother who only have to not join a battle to now be able to craft at your port with having to do none of the leg work or grind or effort to get it to that point. So removing clans from friends list is not fair, then how is this any better to the people who put in the time or effort to get their port where it is now?

So if the port being upgraded does not affect income that much, then why are the best crafting ports the biggest earners in tax?

You may be an upright fellow and not threaten or manipulate, but I can bet for every one of you there are at least two who would do it. It still does not change the fact that you are deciding who can get access to which other people can get access to yours and other peoples hard work. At least the Karma system allows everyone who wants to, that access.

I have been in NA long enough to see what sort of diplomacy goes on most of the time, most of it is friends and cronies working deals to screw others over. What is your take on removing a clan from the friendlist when you know that they have contributed to the development of a port? Again you may not do such things but there are plenty who do.

So you may stop upgrading ports, all that means is that you will end up using the same port bonus ships as whichever nation or clan has spent the time to upgrade their ports, which is the same as it will be now with the karma system except you are one of the clans with the most upgraded port. To me that is a win as it reduces the difference in builds and makes others more competitive.

As it currently stands most people who really want to get access to the port bonuses can do so by sucking up to the right people, but the karma system removes the need for that and as far as I can see that can only be a good thing for the game.

If you really feel that you do not get a return for your time invested with such a system then you would be better pushing for some form of tax system on port bonuses for not clan members crafting in your port rather than fighting for a system that is already badly abused with clans full of alts from other nations. 

[Despe]

3 minutes ago, Archaos said:

So if the port being upgraded does not affect income that much, then why are the best crafting ports the biggest earners in tax?

is not correct. Santo domingo, Truxillo or Batabano are crafting ports and have not much tax. The port with tons of taxes are the capitals, and taxes are for most trading. And of course that ports like VC or NO, who is a main important base have much more taxes, but is for that the cost of port is high.

[Archaos]

10 minutes ago, Despe said:

And talking about superiority of a faction, you only said the same that all taht cry here in forums when their battles dont go ok_ "Russian is a devil" "Russia kill the game", Russia bla bla bla... We play the game and we sometimes win and sometimes lose. In this game there will be always a dominat faction because this is a war game, it is simple.

I think if you check you will note that I never once mentioned a nations name as I know that if it was not Russia then it would be some other nation, so please do not try and turn this into a Russia bashing discussion.

The simple fact is that the game is in a bad way for endgame content at the moment because one dominant nation is so strong that they can dictate what happens in end game. This may be true of how things work in real life but do we really want that replicated in a game?

The access to crafting is only one part of the Karma patch, but overall I do think the patch will be a step in the right direction for the game. No more will any nations players be able to switch allegiances so quickly, people will have to decide who their allies are.

You have to give some bonus to people who choose to remain neutral and I think access to craft in foreign ports is a good incentive, but I will conceed that maybe there should be some form of tax so the owner of the port is compensated for their effort. 

[Despe]

9 minutes ago, Archaos said:

At least the Karma system allows everyone who wants to, that access.

Not true, only allows the alts. And this is the problem. You have a main in France and use your alt for crafting in VC with por bonuses and after that you take that ship fpr you french account. In PvP server all guys that have a only one account use it for war issues, i think that there are to few people that could be consider neutral in his mains accounts with new Karma system. So you are a pvp player in your main and neutral in your alts and you can craft where you chose? This is a definition of abuse in my opinion and an insult for the efforts of players thet build the port.

[Archaos]

1 minute ago, Despe said:

Not true, only allows the alts. And this is the problem. You have a main in France and use your alt for crafting in VC with por bonuses and after that you take that ship fpr you french account. In PvP server all guys that have a only one account use it for war issues, i think that there are to few people that could be consider neutral in his mains accounts with new Karma system. So you are a pvp player in your main and neutral in your alts and you can craft where you chose? This is a definition of abuse in my opinion and an insult for the efforts of players thet build the port.

But this is happening already, the only difference being that you have to suck up to someone to get that access and if for some reason you upset them you can lose that access, which is why I said it will be fairer with the karma system as you will not be relying on sucking up to anyone but deciding to remain neutral by your own actions.

[Despe]

2 minutes ago, Archaos said:

I think if you check you will note that I never once mentioned a nations name as I know that if it was not Russia then it would be some other nation, so please do not try and turn this into a Russia bashing discussion.

The simple fact is that the game is in a bad way for endgame content at the moment because one dominant nation is so strong that they can dictate what happens in end game. This may be true of how things work in real life but do we really want that replicated in a game?

The access to crafting is only one part of the Karma patch, but overall I do think the patch will be a step in the right direction for the game. No more will any nations players be able to switch allegiances so quickly, people will have to decide who their allies are.

You have to give some bonus to people who choose to remain neutral and I think access to craft in foreign ports is a good incentive, but I will conceed that maybe there should be some form of tax so the owner of the port is compensated for their effort. 

Of course is true thet there are a domination faction in game, there always was and always will be because the game is about this. But the correct way to destroy the dominat faction is figth against, not make tricks like crafting with your alts in their good ports. If you want a good ship work with mates for improve your ports or take that ports in a PB. Using an alt for that is a totally abuse.

And talking about alliances, i dint know any notice about aliances in game are affected by bonuses of ports. All factions here have good crafting ports and decide totally free what alliance they want. We got some experience on that when we were multifliped all days by 3 or 4 factions.

Karma patch is so interesting content, but not in the issue of make avalable to neutrals the port bonuses. This is an insult for clan and faction efforts.

[Despe]

25 minutes ago, Archaos said:

But this is happening already, the only difference being that you have to suck up to someone to get that access and if for some reason you upset them you can lose that access, which is why I said it will be fairer with the karma system as you will not be relying on sucking up to anyone but deciding to remain neutral by your own actions.

I dont know how works in your clan, but in REDS nobody needs sucks us for take port bonuses. We are adults and we make deals with all faction mates for profit for all faction. And this system is much more better that the system proposed in this patch.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Despe

[GhostOfDorian]

32 minutes ago, Archaos said:

So if the port being upgraded does not affect income that much, then why are the best crafting ports the biggest earners in tax?

You may be an upright fellow and not threaten or manipulate, but I can bet for every one of you there are at least two who would do it. It still does not change the fact that you are deciding who can get access to which other people can get access to yours and other peoples hard work. At least the Karma system allows everyone who wants to, that access.

I have been in NA long enough to see what sort of diplomacy goes on most of the time, most of it is friends and cronies working deals to screw others over. What is your take on removing a clan from the friendlist when you know that they have contributed to the development of a port? Again you may not do such things but there are plenty who do.

So you may stop upgrading ports, all that means is that you will end up using the same port bonus ships as whichever nation or clan has spent the time to upgrade their ports, which is the same as it will be now with the karma system except you are one of the clans with the most upgraded port. To me that is a win as it reduces the difference in builds and makes others more competitive.

As it currently stands most people who really want to get access to the port bonuses can do so by sucking up to the right people, but the karma system removes the need for that and as far as I can see that can only be a good thing for the game.

If you really feel that you do not get a return for your time invested with such a system then you would be better pushing for some form of tax system on port bonuses for not clan members crafting in your port rather than fighting for a system that is already badly abused with clans full of alts from other nations. 

Still don't get your point.

With the possibility to upgrade port points, now every clan should be able to upgrade its ports to such a decent level that the members can craft competitive ships there. But what we see is not, that all those clans and players who got kicked from some evil clan friendlists team up now to built up their own crafting port. That would be possible. But it does not happen. Even though almost every nation has useless ports which are abandonned for days or weeks and could easily get conquered by those clans which own no ports so far.

Reality is that every player has access now to good crafting ports. Only difficulty is, he has to do the work on his own and together with his friends, who feel excluded from the big game as well. There is no need for equal access to crafting ports. There is equal access already. There is only need for those who exploited other people grind in the past to do this grind by themselves, if they want to harvest the same fruits.

[Archaos]

2 minutes ago, Despe said:

Of course is true thet there are a domination faction in game, there always was and always will be because the game is about this. But the correct way to destroy the dominat faction is figth against, not make tricks like crafting with your alts in their good ports. If you want a good ship work with mates for improve your ports or take that ports in a PB. Using an alt for that is a totally abuse.

And talking about alliances, i dint know any notice about aliances in game are affected by bonuses of ports. All factions here have good crafting ports and decide totally free what alliance they want. We got some experience on that when we were multifliped all days by 3 or 4 factions.

Karma patch is so interesting content, but not in the issue of make avalable to neutrals the port bonuses. This is an insult for clan and faction efforts.

Maybe its because you currently play for the dominant side that you become blind to how badly it is currently affecting the game. In all times before when a side was dominant there was some counter and if people could get organised they could fight that faction, but now the dominant faction has so much influence on other nations that they cannot combine to challenge them. How many nations that are not vassals to the dominant nation have a 55 point port, let alone a 74 point port that the dominant nation has. How many nations have been able to upgrade their port without fear of the dominant nation attacking and erasing all their gains?

As I said the game becomes very comfortable when you are in a position to decide when you want to partake in RvR, you do not get burned out having to constantly defend. If any nation threatens you just turn up the pressure or get your vassals to keep them occupied while you sit back and lord over them till you get bored and decide to do a bit of RvR just for some fun.

I do not think the karma patch will solve these issues but it may help to a certain extent and as for the work you have put in developing the ports then why not ask for some form of compensation from people who use the facilities, that way you are compensated for your hard work. But that does not appear appealing to you and the only reason I can think why is that you wish to remain superior in type of ships you sail compared to others so you can maintain your dominance. The gap between the dominant nation and all others grows larger and larger and that is not good for the game.

[Archaos]

19 minutes ago, Despe said:

I dont know how works in your clan, but in REDS nobody sucks us for take port bonuses. We are adults and we make deals with all faction mates for profit for all faction. And this system is much more better that the system proposed in this patch.

As admitted by Redman29 there are known alts from other nations in his clan even of people he does not like, so they can get access to port bonuses. So its not just for the faction, but also for other factions that I have to assume will not fight against you for fear of losing access to that crafting. As he admitted if their nation is at war with them then they are removed from the clan. That alone indicates some form of control and threat to other nations.

[Despe]

1 minute ago, Archaos said:

How many nations that are not vassals to the dominant nation have a 55 point port, let alone a 74 point port that the dominant nation has

i think that you have not a real knowlegde about us. We have not vassals, we have allies and we work with that allies for profit for all. Danes and Brits have 55 port points because we work together for win a war, and all take thair rewards on that, but they are totally free for play, they are not any kind of vassals. And if we have 74 port points is because we work for this goal, was not free. Tons of hours wasted in farming fleets, and i do not open a wooden chest since investements are avalaible, all of them, including my PvP mission rewards are in VC investements. An now, all factions have enough number of players for doing that, except little factions like prussia.

[Liq]

1 hour ago, Tiedemann said:

The way I see this is that it is a rip-off and the port bonus feature can just be removed from the game, because it will be accessible to all players who have more than 1 character.   

You mean this would result in a somewhat more level playing field? How obscene!

/s

[Despe]

11 minutes ago, Archaos said:

As admitted by Redman29 there are known alts from other nations in his clan even of people he does not like, so they can get access to port bonuses. So its not just for the faction, but also for other factions that I have to assume will not fight against you for fear of losing access to that crafting. As he admitted if their nation is at war with them then they are removed from the clan. That alone indicates some form of control and threat to other nations.

Redman is admiting there that system of course is not perfect, no system is. I think it is clearly that thay try to said. But solution is not make the proposal system here. The proposal of neutrals with port bonuses is clearly worst and much more abusive.

I have not any kind of problem if a real neutral player (my definition of real neutral player is who plays neutral in all of his accounts), could be craft with port bonuses. But be beligerant in you main and neutral in your alts, and craft in VC with your alts for attacking russian ports with you russian crafted ships is a surreal mechanic. use that to real world. You imagine a war between US and Russia and all american ships were russian crafted? Nimitz class carrier crafted in Saint Petersburg shipyards xD It is absurd i guess...

Edited August 2, 2020 by Despe

[Archaos]

6 minutes ago, Despe said:

i think that you have not a real knowlegde about us. We have not vassals, we have allies and we work with that allies for profit for all. Danes and Brits have 55 port points because we work together for win a war, and all take thair rewards on that, but they are totally free for play, they are not any kind of vassals. And if we have 74 port points is because we work for this goal, was not free. Tons of hours wasted in farming fleets, and i do not open a wooden chest since investements are avalaible, all of them, including my PvP mission rewards are in VC investements. An now, all factions have enough number of players for doing that, except little factions like prussia.

And you never ask the question why these nation decide to ally with you rather than fight you and create more content? They remain allied to you because if they don't then they lose access to the crafting with their alts and you will threaten their crafting ports. Again this is how dominant nations work in the real world, but is it the best way for a game to operate?

Why do you keep ignoring the option of asking for neutrals who craft in these ports to pay some form of special tax as a way of recompense for the effort you have put in to upgrade? Such a tax would completely remove your argument against it as you would eventually get back what you invested. It could even be a tax per ship crafted there to give you a nice income, but you appear not to want that and just want to remain superior to others exposing the real reason you complain about this change.

[GhostOfDorian]

Just now, Archaos said:

And you never ask the question why these nation decide to ally with you rather than fight you and create more content? They remain allied to you because if they don't then they lose access to the crafting with their alts and you will threaten their crafting ports. Again this is how dominant nations work in the real world, but is it the best way for a game to operate?

Why do you keep ignoring the option of asking for neutrals who craft in these ports to pay some form of special tax as a way of recompense for the effort you have put in to upgrade? Such a tax would completely remove your argument against it as you would eventually get back what you invested. It could even be a tax per ship crafted there to give you a nice income, but you appear not to want that and just want to remain superior to others exposing the real reason you complain about this change.

You're just derailing this discussion.

[Despe]

7 minutes ago, Archaos said:

They remain allied to you because if they don't then they lose access to the crafting with their alts and you will threaten their crafting ports.

mmm they have 55 port points for crafting. Danes and brits craft in San Juan and Santiago de Cuba.

 

7 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Why do you keep ignoring the option of asking for neutrals who craft in these ports to pay some form of special tax as a way of recompense for the effort you have put in to upgrade?

No problem of that if i can answer no, and that neutral cant use the bonuses. As i said, i have not any type of problem with real neutral players, but is not the issue discussing here. We are discussing if is correct and moral that one beligerant karma player coulb use his alts for crafting in enemy ports. My opinion is that this is inmoral and seems too much like and alt exploit mechanic.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Despe

[Castello Haufniensis]

11 minutes ago, Liq said:

You mean this would result in a somewhat more level playing field? How obscene!

/s

Please explain how the playing field was not even from the beginning? 

[Archaos]

3 minutes ago, Despe said:

mmm they have 55 port points for crafting. Danes and brits craft in San Juan and Santiago de Cuba.

 

No problem of that if i can answer no, and that neutral cant use the bonuses. As i said, i have not any type of problem with real neutral players, but is not the issue discussing here. We are discussing if is correct and moral that one beligerant karma player coulb use his alts for crafting in enemy ports. My opinion is that this is inmoral and seems too much like and alt exploit mechanic.

The two ports you mention are only owned by Brits and Danes because Russia allowed it and they would lose them if they took any serious action against Russia, so it goes to reinforce my point as if they attacked Russia then they would also lose access to their alts crafting in Russian ports.

You have now started to change your tune regarding neutrals crafting in ports, originally the issue was because people were getting access to your hard work without contributing and when I suggest a way round that you now claim its a moral issue!!

[Despe]

11 minutes ago, Archaos said:

The two ports you mention are only owned by Brits and Danes because Russia allowed it and they would lose them if they took any serious action against Russia, so it goes to reinforce my point as if they attacked Russia then they would also lose access to their alts crafting in Russian ports.

They dont need craft in russian ports because they have their own ports, but if he want and we are allies and friends they can do it, it is logical i guess put the things easy to your friends on game. Like real world with the real exisiting alliances and deals between countries. And they have this ports because we have a deal in which the 3 factions have a profit, you can ask brits or danes about if they think they are vassals of us. Both were in "NATO" and both draw, you can ask them for that.

And of couse if they attack us we try to take that ports, but you forget to said that maybe we can lose on that, and you forget too that this is the goal of game: war.

We are not dictators for allow brits or danes make his own alliances, or put in friend list the clans that they want. We play together for profit of all.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Despe

[Tiedemann]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

Your response does not address what is already happening with alt abuse and people allowing their friends from other nations have alts in their clans to give them access to crafting bonuses.

If you own the port, you control what clans has access it's features. There is nothing here to adress. Same as you home, you paid for it and you decide who can access it

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

I know people say that it is a slap in their face for all their hard work in upgrading, but isn't the main reason that it takes away some of their superiority and allows people to compete with the same level of ships?

I do not mind if we remove upgrades, skill books, port bonus, wood types and different cannon types. And then have all battles start with neutral wind. Then player skill in battle would be the only difference. But this has never been the direction of this game. This has always been a grinding game, and you grind to get an advantage.

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

Look at RvR at present to see how bad a situation the game is in end game content. One nation decides who can do what and they let the other nations carry on with petty squabbles among themselves with big brother stepping in when they feel like. The players of that nation are quite comfortable because they only have to be interested in RvR when it suits them, they dont have to frantically gather people up to defend an attack, they know if any nation challenges them that they can crush them, and okay this karma patch may not stop that happening, but at least it removes one of the threats that can be held over other nations clans that seek to challenge the one nation superiority. 

If your writing about Sweden here I totally agree.