Hunt Quests with Gold Chests - Nerfed?

[Karvala]

I noticed yesterday, and it appears to be the same today, that Hunt quests (for ships of a particular rate), most of which previously offered CMs, a Mission Chest and a Gold Chest, no longer seem to offer the Gold Chest.  Is that a bug or an intentional change?  If the latter, I'm not sure it's a positive development.

P.S.  In case anyone thinks it's just the RNG, as Gold Chests were found in most but not all Hunt quests of 1st-5th rate previously, I've checked 30+ missions at a dozen ports and not a single one offered a Gold Chest, so it's definitely not just bad luck.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

I'd say unlucky, or maybe the best missions had been taken by others.

As an example, there's the pvp hunt mission for 1-3 rank with 90 CMs plus the Admiral chest. The most common one is 45 CMs plus the chest. The amount of targets is different of course. But given the reward is good it is hard to find the mission because other player are also taking missions.

 

 

[Karvala]

Possibly, but the three things that make me think that's unlikely are:-

1. The extent of bad luck required for that; of 30 missions previously, at least 25 would have a Gold chest vs 0 this time.  That's meteor-hits-the-earth odds.

2. I don't recall ever having seen the a 1st rate Hunt mission without a Gold chest before.

3. Missions are usually refreshed at the server update and I first noticed this very shortly after this, before other players would have a realistic chance to take all the best missions.

Anyway, the situation seems to have significant improved today so my guess is that there was a glitch yesterday in which the missions were either accidentally nerfed or not refreshed.  As long as it's not a permanent change, it's all good.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

The last 3 Hunts i managed to get, but there's variation. I bet i could get different ones if i searched a lot.

[Frosty]

If you don't find the gold chest, just check in another port, or check tomorrow after maintenance. Gold chest doesn't always drop. It never did.

[Karvala]

Yes, as you'll see from my first post I'm aware of that but I searched in over a dozen ports in vain which has never happened before.  There was definitely something odd yesterday but it's fine, it seems to have resolved itself now.

[Jan van Santen]

Have you finished it the day you took it ? Same as you dont see the quest in an other port while you already have it, it seems this block lasts some time after you cashed it. Kind of a cd on pve seal clubbing. 

 

[ChineseBatman]

Noticed that silver chests have been giving good perms etc, where as gold chests having been getting rubbish. Maybe a half decent book but rubbish perms or no perms.

[Karvala]

Yeah, there's something strange going on in the game generally.  Either that or my RNG is broken.  I've now just sunk ELEVEN ships, all 1st to 3rd rate, and obtained ZERO doubloons across all of them.  Not a single one.  That's never happened before.  WTF is going on???

EDIT: now FIFTEEN and counting.  At least the last seven (when I started noticing have provided only rig repairs and crappy upgrades that are not worth anything.  It seems remarkably strange that all of them are providing rig repairs which were relatively unusual previously, and none of them have any dubs, which were previously common in varying amounts.  Based on my estimate of the probability of not obtaining dubs previously, the odds of this being down to bad luck is around a billion-to-one, so it's clearly not just bad luck.

I'm not going to bother to sink any more because there are obviously not going to be any worthwhile rewards.  The stated policies of the devs are that they want the price of dubs to come down and that they want to see more combat.  And to achieve this, they make dubs more scarce and therefore valuable than ever and remove all worthwhile rewards from combat on the PVE server.  WTF?????

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Karvala

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

2 hours ago, Karvala said:

I'm not going to bother to sink any more because there are obviously not going to be any worthwhile rewards.  The stated policies of the devs are that they want the price of dubs to come down and that they want to see more combat.  And to achieve this, they make dubs more scarce and therefore valuable than ever and remove all worthwhile rewards from combat on the PVE server.

The need to spend doubloons has been reduced in shipcrafting, so it appears only natural to me income in doubloons is getting decreased as well, or you get another inflation. Besides, there are still other sources for you. Missions in the first place. Weekly competitions.

If you need doubloons for getting engaged into battling ships it seems you don't fight for fun, thrill, experience - which should be the main motivation in a game. Not 'farming'.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

5 hours ago, Karvala said:

Yeah, there's something strange going on in the game generally.  Either that or my RNG is broken.  I've now just sunk ELEVEN ships, all 1st to 3rd rate, and obtained ZERO doubloons across all of them.  Not a single one.  That's never happened before.  WTF is going on???

EDIT: now FIFTEEN and counting.  At least the last seven (when I started noticing have provided only rig repairs and crappy upgrades that are not worth anything.  It seems remarkably strange that all of them are providing rig repairs which were relatively unusual previously, and none of them have any dubs, which were previously common in varying amounts.  Based on my estimate of the probability of not obtaining dubs previously, the odds of this being down to bad luck is around a billion-to-one, so it's clearly not just bad luck.

I'm not going to bother to sink any more because there are obviously not going to be any worthwhile rewards.  The stated policies of the devs are that they want the price of dubs to come down and that they want to see more combat.  And to achieve this, they make dubs more scarce and therefore valuable than ever and remove all worthwhile rewards from combat on the PVE server.  WTF?????

 

Ran a test to check this. Engaged 1 fleet of 12 frigates. Came out with above 5k doubloons. Not all ships dropped them, about half did. Ran a second test, attacked 2x 4th rates, came out short of 1300. Both dropped.Attack on a single Trinc yielded 800.

On the short side of the stick, in all three battles there were almost no books, to balance it out.

I know for a fact that best chances ( die roll ) drops are on ranks 1-3, with best being on rank 1. But there's chance for all ranks albeit smaller and smaller as we approach rank 7.

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Hethwill

[Karvala]

5 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

The need to spend doubloons has been reduced in shipcrafting, so it appears only natural to me income in doubloons is getting decreased as well, or you get another inflation. Besides, there are still other sources for you. Missions in the first place. Weekly competitions.

If you need doubloons for getting engaged into battling ships it seems you don't fight for fun, thrill, experience - which should be the main motivation in a game. Not 'farming'.

It's not about farming, it's about meeting a basic need.  Dubs are still needed for various things so there needs to be some sort of dubs income.  I'd rather not have to either fight 6th or 7th rates in low level missions which offer dubs rewards, or do the cargo missions, because both are incredibly dull to me.  Instead, therefore, I choose to fight higher level ships and rely upon a steady of stream of dubs that way.  Not a huge amount, and not from every fight, but some is needed.  Can't afford to go 15 fights with none at all.

Your economics is a bit off.  Reduced demand without reduced money supply will cause deflation, not inflation, and deflation is the devs stated policy, hence this seems rather strange.

[Karvala]

3 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Ran a test to check this. Engaged 1 fleet of 12 frigates. Came out with above 5k doubloons. Not all ships dropped them, about half did. Ran a second test, attacked 2x 4th rates, came out short of 1300. Both dropped.Attack on a single Trinc yielded 800.

On the short side of the stick, in all three battles there were almost no books, to balance it out.

I know for a fact that best chances ( die roll ) drops are on ranks 1-3, with best being on rank 1. But there's chance for all ranks albeit smaller and smaller as we approach rank 7.

 

Thanks, it's very helpful to have someone else test it; I appreciate that.  it does suggest that there is something else going on behind the scenes, especially with all the rig repairs.  My 15 fights also yielded no books at all.  It felt as though either the RNG was somehow stuck (don't really how that could happen, but I guess it's possible), or there is something else such a daily limit to sinking after which you get no dubs, or something like that.  Definitely something more in here.  Will try again today and see what happens.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Pure chance.

 

[Karvala]

At odds of a literally a billion to one?  I'm not buying that.  I have fought a further 5 line ships today since the server reset.  4 of them yielded dubs and 3 of them yielded books; that's largely in line with my previous experience.  The idea that 15 in a row would yield no dubs or books by pure chance isn't really plausible.  Definitely a glitch or a hidden restriction.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Believe what you want.

I'm sure devs will look into it if there's any issue.

 

[Karvala]

Happening again; something is definitely broken.  Sank 18 line ships since logging in this morning.  ZERO dubs on ANY of them.  Just bad luck?  Sorry, not buying it; not for all 18 without any exceptions.  For example, in the last fight I sank a Victory, and the reward was Pino Ocote masts and that was it.  That would never normally happen, so something is clearly broken, even if it's just the RNG tables. Will logout and try again later.

 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Try this.

You sink one. Access hold. Cancel.

Access again until items show up.

Sometimes there's delay/lag for items to appear.

I've been having zero issues with loot.

[Karvala]

I'll certainly try it, but items are showing up; there haven't been any with no loot.  Just literally none with dubs.  My prediction is that when I log out and log back in later everything will be fine again, which would suggest some RNG glitch, but we'll see.

[Karvala]

Four line ships, four Loki runes, nothing else.  This is completely ridiculous.

[mikawa]

7 minutes ago, Karvala said:

Four line ships, four Loki runes, nothing else.  This is completely ridiculous.

The problem of randomness is randomness.

[Malcolm3]

It really depends on pure RNG probably (though I suspect devs can tune loot tables manually and not seen in API via na-map)

On 4 days I was getting from a few AI Traders I've sunk around 1.2-3.3k doubs and also around 2k doubs from pair of 3rd rate AI each (but no reps, good modules or books). Got around 10k doubs from just a few ships.
Today I sunk some 4th rates AI and got around 500-800 doubs from each and Table of Parts... book. Again no good modules

Edited July 8, 2020 by Malcolm3

[Karvala]

RNG needs loot tables and my feeling is that the loot tables have been nerfed and we've not been told.  I've offered evidence and there has been no counter-evidence or even denial by the devs, just claims it's all a run of astronomical bad luck which is patently nonsense.

For example:-

1.  Based on the previous probabilities, obtained over a period of over a year, the odds of getting dubs from a line ship was something like 3/5.  The probability of obtaining none for 18 ships in a row is approaching a billion-to-one, in other words even if played 365 days a year and sank 50 ships each day, it would take on average over 50,000 years to see such an event.  I've now seen it twice in a week.

2. I had never before had to visit more than 3 ports which are known to drop Rank 3 Hunt quests to get one which offers a Gold chest reward.  Twice in the last week, I have visited a dozen ports and found all Rank 3 Hunt quests not offering Gold chests, before giving up.

We can all shout "randomness" and "bad luck" at the top of our voice and find individual instances where we lucky, but evidence is evidence.  This is not bad luck, this is a pattern of rewards being nerfed.

[Karvala]

Just to return to the original topic, I've now searched 20 ports and ALL Hunt quests of ALL rates at ALL 20 ports were without Gold Chests - CMs and Mission Chests only (this is on the PvE server, for the avoidance of doubt).  So they've definitely been nerfed, even if it hasn't made its way into any patch notes that I've seen.  An unhelpful change; how disappointing.

Search & Destroy quests have also been reduced in availability.  Previously I've been able to find quests for all the particular types of ship I want to fight after search through 7-8 ports, having 10 active quests.  Presently i have 4 active quests because I simply can't find the other 6 anywhere after searching many more ports than normal.  Someone else searched as well and he also can't find any, so it's not just me.

So - missions are harder to find, when you do find missions they offer lower rewards, and fighting without missions is more pointless than ever because dubs rewards have been nerfed.  So basically, there is less point to even bother to leave port now, since you're not going to be rewarded significantly for taking risks.

Of course, there's less reason to stay in port and craft as well, since you've no idea how good that fine ship you've just built will be the following week after all of its stats have been changed yet again.  Not that you can craft the best ships anyway, since the new rare woods are more expensive than ever which together with the reduced rewards effectively enshrines wealth in the existing wealthy players and excludes everyone else.

So basically, there's just less point to play at all.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Karvala