What to do about abusive clans?

[Mr Kemosabe]

Dear Captains,

There is a systemic problem which I feel could use new mechanic. Right now to maintain power people use alt clans or out of nation powers to control their nation through the friends list. For instance, RHB clan in Pirate Nation made a deal to take ownership of Baracoa with Russia providing another clan was not allowed on the friends list to craft ships. I knew it wouldn't be long before my clan was removed from friends list as well. 

My 10 man clan formed 3 Le Bucs to support SNOW clan in the defense of Santa Cruz  at around 1:00 PM on a Friday (outside of our USA time zone play time) in which we lost to Russia. The clan that owns Baracoa removed REBEL clan from friends list at Baracoa right after that port battle because "we weren't helping Pirate Nation" 

https://imgur.com/gallery/O6vL5Z2
https://imgur.com/gallery/P8AsoxR

Doubtless this was just an excuse because the leaders of RHB dislike ME personally. However all this really accomplished is KAR, my clan's port battle caller, (the guy that led us in port battles, made fun things happen in game, soft spoken nice guys (unlike myself) who happened to have his shipyard at Baracoa, can no longer craft his ships.....so he quit playing the game. This led my ENTIRE clan which was one of the most active clans in Pirate Nation to quit the game. 

All because there is NOTHING we can do about an abusive clan that has too much power within the nation. What is our recourse? Join them? KAR chose instead to quit playing the game. This is unhealthy for the player community. 

Now I'm sure many of you will say "Kemo you just need to have a reasonable discussion with them to solve the problems". Unfortunately the clan that owns Baracoa is lead by teenagers who really honestly don't care and have stated it publicly in nation chat. And why should they? There are no consequences they have to worry about are there? What is the solution?

I propose either doing away of the friends list mechanic, or making it possible to declare war on clans within the nation so we can take their ports. I would prefer the later as this would make the game much more dynamic, add more content, more ships would sink requiring people to play the game more and buy more DLCs because we'd want to save our good ships for fighting foreign powers. Also it would solve the problem of clans acquiring a port then going inactive where the tax revenue doesn't actually support a nations war efforts but just goes into a dead clan's coffers. 

Just a thought I write because I love the game still.  

Edited June 30, 2020 by Mr Kemosabe

[Christendom]

Personally I dislike the entire clan > nation themed crafting and port ownership type of model the game uses.  We need either a full clan based system (no nations) or a complete nation oriented one.  Not this hybrid of both where it seems we get all the downsides and none of the upsides.  The doubling down on crafting ports in the most recent patch means there won't be a resolution for you in the near future.  

Also the notion of pirates owning crafting ports and being involved in RVR seems bonkers to me....but that's a different discussion that's lonnnnnng overdue I think.

However it's very much well known how disliked you are in pirate nation for a littany of reasons and you consistently fail to show up to RHB's port battles (owner of baracoa) or even regular defensive port battles.  Can you blame them?  They even hate you so much in nation that there was a bit of tomfoolery with personal info and such, which I think you remember. 

It would appear that you have a few options. 
- Make nice and play ball
 - Crafting alts
 - Leave and fight RHB from another nation.  (as an ex-pirate this option is rather satisfying) 

Or craft in Nuevitas where you are still on the list even if we don't like you all that much.    

Edited June 30, 2020 by Christendom

[Mr Kemosabe]

19 minutes ago, Christendom said:

you consistently fail to show up to RHB's port battles

Dear sir you are badly mistaken......the only times RHB captured ports was when I led the screening fleets to get them to port battle. Now please concern yourself with Russian politics rather than trying to dabble in Pirate after you have left that nation

[Christendom]

47 minutes ago, Mr Kemosabe said:

Dear sir you are badly mistaken......the only times RHB captured ports was when I led the screening fleets to get them to port battle. Now please concern yourself with Russian politics rather than trying to dabble in Pirate after you have left that nation

I was in 3 or 4 Dane PBs vs RHB.  Not a Kemo/REBEL in sight.  The RHB players confirmed as much due to "internal struggles" aka you calling that clan a bunch of traitors.  Not to mention a multi flip where REBEL failed to show up...again.  

Talk shit...get hit.  

While I agree about clans holding others hostage with the current stupid in-game mechanics your situation is of your own making.  Enjoy!

Edited June 30, 2020 by Christendom

[Salty Banana]

1 hour ago, Christendom said:

I was in 3 or 4 Dane PBs vs RHB. 

with your main being in russia ty for confirming how the system is being abused, primarily by members of the russian nation (NOT implying russians in r/l)

the whole system now of alts being made to mess with other nations is making the political and RvR side pointless unless you are part of, or allied to the zerg

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Want to control decisions ? Take ports.

Ports are clans politics currency.

A clan removes another clan from list... tough luck.

Make your own luck.

There's no way around it.

[Christendom]

40 minutes ago, Salty Banana said:

with your main being in russia ty for confirming how the system is being abused, primarily by members of the russian nation (NOT implying russians in r/l)

the whole system now of alts being made to mess with other nations is making the political and RvR side pointless unless you are part of, or allied to the zerg

ah the old Russia abuses everything line huh.... (insert dead horse pic).  A few of those alts from the "other side" that showed up in HAVOC/Swede battles occasionally must have been figments of my imagination I guess.  Definitely.  Only the Russians do such naughty things. 

In a game that has 6 or 7 nations too many and a population substantially less than 1000 players at peak it's bound to happen given the necessity of built up crafting ports and the ease at taking them.  As long as they don't manipulate hostility or kill alts.....no harm no foul.  At least I'm open about my other accounts.

 

[Mr Kemosabe]

On 6/30/2020 at 3:51 PM, Christendom said:

aka you calling that clan a bunch of traitors

Chris: I never called RHB traitors....Some Brits yes....RHB are Pirates, impossible for them to commit treason so makes no sense to call them "traitors"....once again you are coloring things. Please debate the issue not indulge in personal petty attacks. 

On 6/30/2020 at 6:09 PM, Hethwill said:

Want to control decisions ? Take ports.

Ports are clans politics currency.

A clan removes another clan from list... tough luck.

Make your own luck.

There's no way around it.

Pitts Town is owned by a clan that is DEAD. Being a pirate, and JACKS being a dead pirate clan, how do you propose I take that port? 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Mr Kemosabe

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

7 hours ago, Mr Kemosabe said:

Pitts Town is owned by a clan that is DEAD. Being a pirate, and JACKS being a dead pirate clan, how do you propose I take that port? 

What you perceive about a port and owner clan is not the same the game sees about port and owner clan.

Game sees Port held by a clan and will continue to be held until taken by enemy, raiders, or dropped due to lack of funds.

What you want is not part of the equation.

Now, whether you want to accept that reality or not is on you. And no one can help you.

The clan exists and holds the port.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Hethwill

[DDZ_Vasduten]

On 7/4/2020 at 4:29 AM, Hethwill said:

What you perceive about a port and owner clan is not the same the game sees about port and owner clan.

Game sees Port held by a clan and will continue to be held until taken by enemy, raiders, or dropped due to lack of funds.

What you want is not part of the equation.

Now, whether you want to accept that reality or not is on you. And no one can help you.

The clan exists and holds the port.

What he perceives about these ports and "owner clans" is actually spot on.
 

Clan friends lists are being abused by ALTS FROM ENEMY NATIONS.
That's the problem, and denying it exists isn't going to help.

When a clan in one nation is run by an ALT from a nation that seeks to take that port, people in this game are cheating so they can play both sides of the fight and use ALT influence, (changing the friends on the list,) to cheat everyone of the chance to "win" the port fairly and by RvR.
This mechanic is gamed ALL THE TIME... just as precious resources are, (copper ingots, anyone? Cartagena tar? TIER THREE WOODS??????)


Please understand, Hethwill.

Alts are fine... using them to help with the grind is also fine. 

 

Having Alts in opposing sides of a war where you can control your enemy nation's ship bonuses is NOT fine, nor is it "fair" to anyone.
A dead clan still holds Pitt's Town. One guy used to log in from that clan and he wasn't even an officer.
No relief.

Still... alts are gamed in this way and now with premium woods it's worse than ever.