Timber Feedback Thread - PINNED

[Conte D. Catellani]

9 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

The idea was to make crafting great again.

For your DLC you have the most easy access to seasoned woods of the universe. Should be enough.

Maybe was better just to work on port bonuses, moving them from the port to the players 

[BoatyMcBoatFace]

11 hours ago, Tiedemann said:

I always had a major issue with the speed built war ships that are purpose built to give the owner safe option to pick and chose their fights. Those ships are purpose built for hit and run and I'm not stating OP is a spineless ganker, but I have a strong impression that those light speed built warships are mostly used to sink traders and low rank players. 

I hope one day a heavy built Indiaman actually has a good chance against a light built Constitution. Would bring much more content to both sides in those fights

In what hello kitty universe would a cargo ship with smaller guns, way fewer guns, 4000 tons of cargo have a chance against a super frigate warship?

 

Reading posts like these makes me happy that the devs generally ignore everything the "community" says. We blame them for driving the game into the grave.. well if it were up to those know better players, the game would have been dug to the core of the earth by now 

[BoatyMcBoatFace]

7 minutes ago, Conte D. Catellani said:

Maybe was better just to work on port bonuses, moving them from the port to the players 

it is to the players now.

 

players make port

and player dont get use of port unless they are in good relations with people who worked on port. no, every random annoying player should not have the right to build super ships and harass people.. communal work should matter for something still.

[Stilgar]

Here is my take on this new woods saga.

• timing and implementation was rather uninspired: first standard and S woods had to be tweaked to make other combinations feasible (long due). That alone would add variety in ship building. With that balanced, new woods could be added, perhaps not all at once but gradually (3-4 at a time). 
• since woods are meant to be rare, best would be to let them drop from various chests randomly and in limited amount and also make AI traders carry them from time to time, encouraging people to sail and compete for the traders. That would create additional incentive to go in OW and would create a rare wood aftermarket, which would benefit all players.
• finally, I am not an expert in ship building, but I can imagine that masts were  made from hard seasoned wood, normally oaks? In view of the issues with balancing the mast strength, a third wood option in crafting that would determine the mast stats is in order, I suppose. This would allow in long term to better balance the mast thickness and HP. Just a thought. 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

1 hour ago, Stilgar said:

finally, I am not an expert in ship building, but I can imagine that masts were  made from hard seasoned wood, normally oaks? In view of the issues with balancing the mast strength, a third wood option in crafting that would determine the mast stats is in order, I suppose. This would allow in long term to better balance the mast thickness and HP. Just a thought. 

All three types of woods are use for rigging, but not all for the mast itself.

Quote

 

FIR, in mastmaking, is the most useful wood for length, size, and lightness. It forms the body of the mast, the spindle, side-trees, fishes, cheeks, fillings, and cant-pieces. Masts are also frequently made of Single trees, as are yards, booms, topmasts, etc.

OAK, the most useful timber for strength and durability, when exposed to the weather. It is used, in mastmaking, for trestle-trees, cross-trees, and open tops.

TEAK, a hard and durable Asiatic wood, used abroad for masts and hound-pieces for topmasts.

in The Elements and Practice of Rigging And Seamanship, 1794

 

 

[Conte D. Catellani]

3 hours ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

it is to the players now.

 

players make port

and player dont get use of port unless they are in good relations with people who worked on port. no, every random annoying player should not have the right to build super ships and harass people.. communal work should matter for something still.

Maybe I missed some parts of the discussions, but in recent months the problem was not the casual and annoying players with the super ship, but the undisputed big nations that govern the map.

I don't know how he can get new timber scattered across the map, controlled by russia, to help other nations to fight his supremacy

[admin]

We are working in timber changes and plan to deploy them soon.

Here are the principles again that will help you provide feedback and criticism on achieving the goals

We want to bring somewhat realistic wood types to the game that bring variety and dont cast the players into 2 types of woods
We want players to feel the difference - real difference when sailing the ship made from particular timber.
We want players to have clear choice when picking wood for a particular combat role

Current test shown that there is too much thickness across the board and overall thickness will be lowered. Heavy ship battles are really slower now and its not good. All planking and frame thickness will be lowered

Three types of woods that were not used will fill the certain roles
Locust - will similar to live oak but with more HP but less thickness for hull, but slightly more for masts
Sabicu - will be similar to white oak but more HP and less thickness for hull, but slightly more for masts
Mahogany - will be similar to Teak but with less thickness but more splinter damage resistance 

Rare woods will be better than seasoned balanced wood alternatives but will be extremely rare and expensive.

Overall all woods will be able to separate into 3 categories
Hardwoods - HP
Hardwoods - Resistance
Softwoods - Speed with variety of other factors


To avoid the back and forth the patch will only deploy after full review - The final stat proposal will be posted when ready.
 

[Despe]

19 minutes ago, admin said:

Locust - will similar to live oak but with more HP but less thickness for hull, but slightly more for masts

So live oak will be the most thick wood again? or still locust? An what about seasonesd woods? I think that in the new patch the diference between seasoned and normal are not significant, for example, live oak seasoned only got 2 per cent more thickness that normal live... I think the difference in the statistics should be greater considering the amount of resources and hours of labor that costs seasoning...

in my opinion stats difference between seasoned/not seasoned woods were much more balance before the patch. I'm not really sure if is profitable spend resources and money in seasoning woods, just for only an extra 2 percent thick, minimum differend shoud be 4 or 5...

Edited June 25, 2020 by Despe

[Botq]

2 minutes ago, Despe said:

So live oak will be the most thick wood again? or still locust? An what about seasonesd woods? I think that in the new patch the diference between seasoned and normal are not significant, for example, live oak seasoned only got 2 per cent more thickness that normal live... I think the difference in the statistics should be greater considering the amount of resources and hours of labor that costs seasoning...

agreed

[Lizzo]

28 minutes ago, admin said:

Current test shown that there is too much thickness across the board and overall thickness will be lowered. Heavy ship battles are really slower now and its not good. All planking and frame thickness will be lowered

I think the overall slight increase in thickness is very good, it feels better and much more realistic. Correct manoeuvring has become more important and robustly built line ships' sides should in my opinion be very difficult to penetrate

[Despe]

and making seasoned woods diference between normal woods insignificant, you are really make a nerf on DLC ships which is not ok, we pay a good money for them. Before the patch, a bad bonuses DLC (probably 90 per cent of DLC redemed) with seasoned woods were a good ship, comparable with a standard normal woods crafted ship with good port bonues, but now it is a worse ship imho, specially when now with port investementes for increase port points this crafted ships have more bonuses yet.

So if you dont change the stats diferences between seasoned/not seasoned, you should change the way in which port bonuses are created on DLC ships, putting a minimum level on each of them (level 1 or 2 at least), or let each player choose which bonus he wants on his ship, with a number of random points when the DLC is created, with a minimum. For example, the minimum number of points could be 8 that you can distribute in the bonuses that you want (crew bonus 4 and hull bonus 4 as example) and the rest of the points that you can get is random up to the maximum, being able to have zero more points or all they.

In any case, the insignificant differences there are now make DLCs worse than standard ships with normal woods when your DLC have bad bonuses, and that can't be acepted. And if the ship is a crafted seasoned ship with good bonuses like a Implacable, it's already too much.

 

So I hope that before making your decision on these changes, I hope that you take into your account this, and the opinions of the community about that.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Despe

[MassimoSud]

I have only one request, please leave a wood that gives thickness to the masts. Now we have the sabicu and the frigates are back to be important in game. Please don't go back to mechanics that only reward big ships and easy demasting tactics vs frigates.

[Admiral Howe of Gibraltar]

The best bit of the timber patch was lowering the gap between normal and seasoned woods.

If any change is required it is a decrease of the labor hours when crafting the seasoned woods.

[BoatyMcBoatFace]

yes i already say this about LH needed

 

 

but guess no response. expected

[Henry Long Castle]

On 6/24/2020 at 8:58 PM, Tiedemann said:

I always had a major issue with the speed built war ships that are purpose built to give the owner safe option to pick and chose their fights. Those ships are purpose built for hit and run and I'm not stating OP is a spineless ganker, but I have a strong impression that those light speed built warships are mostly used to sink traders and low rank players. 

I hope one day a heavy built Indiaman actually has a good chance against a light built Constitution. Would bring much more content to both sides in those fights

Its your choice to sail an Indiaman with no escort as it is my choice to hunt you down and sink you. I still cant understand why people speak badly of "ganker" or whoever uses the strength of their ship to their advantage. Me attacking a trader is bad, me attacking a Redoutable is bad since im a smaller ship that can stern camp, me attacking an other player that is not Admiral rank is also bad. However me taking a 1st rate into the patrol zone only to get gang banged by a fleet is apparently good.

Seems to me that the guy that attacks someone is always wrong. What you are asking for is some weird kind of balance were as you said an Indiaman however built, stands a good chance against a Constitution and that apparently that would be content. 

Im sorry but I completely disagree with your point of view.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Henry Long Castle

[Never]

14 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

 

The thing that is still a player problem, you don't have to have the GOLD ship to win and you still have a gold ship, just alter stats.  Other than @Redman29 who did a good write up on the woods and got Locust changed all I see is a bunch of players complaining cause they have to actuall go out  and fight in ships that aren't perfect meta.  Not every one has those perfect meta ships so it just kinda made it more fair of a fight.  

You simply don't get it. You keep arguing about meta, when that isn't the point at all. 

[Henry Long Castle]

14 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Than all your fir/fir ships are still fast, they just aren't the fastest on the block any more.  So nothing really changed for you.  Not every one will have the new woods to make even faster ships so your not at a sudden disadvantage.

Yes but no XD. I dont mind new woods to be better/faster. Thats completely fine since its something new being added to the game. Fir on the other hand was there for ever. With the changes so far not only it got slower (the speed bonus got actually reduced), but its weaknesses grew tremendously. Thats my issue now. Sure my ships are still fast. But at least people wouldnt demast my Connie with 9p longs. At least the Connie has a large HP pool so she can take some hits. The frigates tho.... thats an other story.

[Henry Long Castle]

3 hours ago, admin said:

Current test shown that there is too much thickness across the board and overall thickness will be lowered. Heavy ship battles are really slower now and its not good. All planking and frame thickness will be lowered

Why should the wood you choose for structure determine the mast thickness and HP?

 

9 hours ago, Hethwill said:

FIR, in mastmaking, is the most useful wood for length, size, and lightness. It forms the body of the mast, the spindle, side-trees, fishes, cheeks, fillings, and cant-pieces. Masts are also frequently made of Single trees, as are yards, booms, topmasts, etc.

OAK, the most useful timber for strength and durability, when exposed to the weather. It is used, in mastmaking, for trestle-trees, cross-trees, and open tops.

TEAK, a hard and durable Asiatic wood, used abroad for masts and hound-pieces for topmasts.

in The Elements and Practice of Rigging And Seamanship, 1794

From what ive researched as well seems like most masts were made out of Fir or Fir-like trees. 

Again Im no expert but I dont see how the structure of the ship would influence the thickness of the mast.
 

[Raf Van Boom]

3 hours ago, admin said:

We are working in timber changes and plan to deploy them soon.

Here are the principles again that will help you provide feedback and criticism on achieving the goals

We want to bring somewhat realistic wood types to the game that bring variety and dont cast the players into 2 types of woods
We want players to feel the difference - real difference when sailing the ship made from particular timber.
We want players to have clear choice when picking wood for a particular combat role

Current test shown that there is too much thickness across the board and overall thickness will be lowered. Heavy ship battles are really slower now and its not good. All planking and frame thickness will be lowered

Three types of woods that were not used will fill the certain roles
Locust - will similar to live oak but with more HP but less thickness for hull, but slightly more for masts
Sabicu - will be similar to white oak but more HP and less thickness for hull, but slightly more for masts
Mahogany - will be similar to Teak but with less thickness but more splinter damage resistance 

Rare woods will be better than seasoned balanced wood alternatives but will be extremely rare and expensive.

Overall all woods will be able to separate into 3 categories
Hardwoods - HP
Hardwoods - Resistance
Softwoods - Speed with variety of other factors


To avoid the back and forth the patch will only deploy after full review - The final stat proposal will be posted when ready.
 

Please allow redeeming DLC ships with the new exotic woods if there is enough of logs in the player's warehouse.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

2 minutes ago, Henry Long Castle said:

From what ive researched as well seems like most masts were made out of Fir or Fir-like trees.

Root. Mast is not just a pole hanging in the air through a hole. It is anchored to the ship frame.

[Henry Long Castle]

16 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Root. Mast is not just a pole hanging in the air through a hole. It is anchored to the ship frame.

yes you are completely right but what stops a ship builder from using a thick mast in a light ship ? At the moment mast thickness not only changes the part of the mast that is embedded in the structure but the entire mast from top to bottom. 

[Despe]

1 hour ago, Admiral Howe of Gibraltar said:

The best bit of the timber patch was lowering the gap between normal and seasoned woods.

If any change is required it is a decrease of the labor hours when crafting the seasoned woods.

in this case a compaesation is needed to DLC buyers because it is clear that are nerfed.

[Eduard L'Aquila]

4 hours ago, admin said:

Three types of woods that were not used will fill the certain roles
Locust - will similar to live oak but with more HP but less thickness for hull, but slightly more for masts
Sabicu - will be similar to white oak but more HP and less thickness for hull, but slightly more for masts
Mahogany - will be similar to Teak but with less thickness but more splinter damage resistance 

Rare woods will be better than seasoned balanced wood alternatives but will be extremely rare and expensive.

If I had a say, I'd say Locust needed to be a bit slower than Live Oak but the change was very positive from my perspective, on that note the new woods' statistics were better but not by too much compared to the current woods so they were fine. When I looked at it, I liked the changes, high end woods are a lot tougher and it has been fun.

The reduction in thickness worries me as the ships feel like they are suppose to, durable and tough.

However, I will wait and see what happens but please know that the current state (with only one small change) feels very good for at least one player (me).

Edited June 25, 2020 by Eduard L'Aquila

[Sir Texas Sir]

7 hours ago, Admiral Howe of Gibraltar said:

The best bit of the timber patch was lowering the gap between normal and seasoned woods.

If any change is required it is a decrease of the labor hours when crafting the seasoned woods.

There was to much of a gap to be honest before hand. Now it just means you can make a quick cheap ship or you can get the more expensive stuff and make a proper season wood ship.   They just need to change the season wood shed.  3700 hours to convert 75 logs is just retarded (I hate using that word but it is).   I can see if I used all my hours tot convert maybe 750 logs.  At that rate and the fact you need tools and doubloons it takes for ever to convert 

6 hours ago, Never said:

You simply don't get it. You keep arguing about meta, when that isn't the point at all. 

I don't think you get it, go out sail your ships, if they get sunk than your skills was what was lacking as you where to dependent on a meta, if you didn't get sunk than well your a skilled player and you don't need to be in the meta all the time.  

I got tons of ships now that I plan to take out and get sunk or just scrap for the hell of it. I mean I got ships that where built back on release out of oak/oak still.   Remember it's only pixals and well the whole reason to play the game is to make more money and make new ships to fight more.   So if you don't loose ships and change things than you sit in port and do nothing....that kinda boreing man.

6 hours ago, Henry Long Castle said:

Yes but no XD. I dont mind new woods to be better/faster. Thats completely fine since its something new being added to the game. Fir on the other hand was there for ever. With the changes so far not only it got slower (the speed bonus got actually reduced), but its weaknesses grew tremendously. Thats my issue now. Sure my ships are still fast. But at least people wouldnt demast my Connie with 9p longs. At least the Connie has a large HP pool so she can take some hits. The frigates tho.... thats an other story.

Those soft woods should of been a lot more disavantage than they where. I remember way way back before releasse when they added the structure bar and the woods effected mast.  It was so great cause you can snap the mast of those soft woods ships so they couldn't run away so fast.   Maybe this is a good thing.  So you have to trade off some of that health and thickness to have that super fast ship.   

5 hours ago, Raf Van Boom said:

Please allow redeeming DLC ships with the new exotic woods if there is enough of logs in the player's warehouse.

NOOOOOOO....they are for crafting. YOu get your instant season woods we get our special rare woods or have to craft season wood.   The only way I would say yes is to allow refits and the ships to be crafted if folks don't want the DLC notes, but it's best to keep them how they are.   Every ship that is DLC other than the LRQ and the Herc has a craftable ship to compare to it, just craft one of them.

[Raf Van Boom]

See I spent my hard earned money on those DLC ships because

a) they look great

b) I couldn't care less about the crafting grind

Why is your grind in-game worth more than my grind in real-life huh? Exotic woods for DLC ships or allow me to 'return' the DLC as I withdraw myself from this game due to shady business practices.