3rd rate buff

[mexicanbatman]

is it possible to buff the 3rd rate to have 36 pounders 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventy-four_(ship)  wiki says it was fitted with different load outs 

Edited May 27, 2020 by mexicanbatman

[Lt Sekiro]

The link you give is for the Temeraire classe

 

Redoutable/impacable

 

Buf 3rd rate?

Give him more hp /more thikness , heavy version of bellona with less firepower

Edited May 27, 2020 by Lt Sekiro

[Lukas97Austria]

hell yes! make the 3rd rate different to Bellona so we see them also in OW  

[mexicanbatman]

2 minutes ago, Lt Sekiro said:

The link you give is for the Temeraire classe

 

Redoutable/impacable

realy?

 

 

[Knuddel]

Lol what about buffing bellona?

 

[Stilgar]

I'd rather see generic 3rd rate to get some mobility: better turn, slightly faster, improved acc/dec.  She must have sailing stats identical to those of Bellona. Bellona would be a bit more tanky and have better firepower though. 

[mexicanbatman]

ye aslong as some of the others get buffed

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, Stilgar said:

I'd rather see generic 3rd rate to get some mobility: better turn, slightly faster, improved acc/dec.  She must have sailing stats identical to those of Bellona. Bellona would be a bit more tanky and have better firepower though. 

I would be more with this, make it the faster of the 3rd rates but less cannon lb to reason why.   The other thing we have joked about in the past and I think at one time even one of the 1st rates had them in game.  Put morters on it, make it the deep water morter brig.  Right now the mortar brig is dead in fight and does so little damage to forts they aren't worth brining.  Give something bigger for the bigger fights that can be worth brinng and won't be dead to any 5th rate or below in a deep water fight.

[Kejsaren]

Sekiro voted no, good luck with this🤣

 

@Captain Reverseis your own only hope.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Kejsaren

[Lukas97Austria]

12 hours ago, Knuddel said:

Lol what about buffing bellona?

 

You are joking. Normally if you watch both ships the Bellona is in every therm better. But due it's a game and balance matters I would say give the 3rd rate better mobility. But it has less fire power. Isn't so hard to change and it won't make the ship broken etc. 

[erelkivtuadrater]

Voted no because i feel the problem is that the ships can have so much thickness to their hulls that you cant penetrate a lineship unless you're closer then 600m with a 18pd long which makes it obsolete because everyone literally angles it away. So imo all cannons 18pd and below should be abit buffed on the penetration values.

This would also help when fighting a carronade ship which at the moment can just steam on bow to stern without a true risk of losing if its vs equal ship.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Less than 18 pounders carry too little mass. Taking a representative of the period, 21 inches thick at lower gunport level, 18 pounder would struggle. Actually 24 pounder DID struggle for real.

 Increasing their penetration levels adds more splintering when hitting slight angles and if square, through shot. Given ALL guns can hurt any ship at the moment, taking the norm - notable exceptions and extreme rank disparity ( rank 7 versus rank 1 fully built for thickness ) not considered, why attribute capabilities to cannon that would warp consistent and authentic ( as much as possible in a wargame ) outcomes ? ( talking guns, not ships )

Regrding the "compare to carronade" situation, yeah, i will agree. But the carronade ship relies more on the speed to get to optimal range than range itself, while cannon decidedly needs range to win the exchange and maybe it hasn't the speed to keep itself out of the carronade.

Not sure if increasing output of smaller mass is a good idea.

Regarding the original post...

If the 3rd Rate becomes the Crafted ship that acts as counter balance option for DLC Redoutable/Implacable - just because of the 36 pounder - sure... why not.

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Hethwill

[Lukas97Austria]

3 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Less than 18 pounders carry too little mass. Taking a representative of the period, 21 inches thick at lower gunport level, 18 pounder would struggle. Actually 24 pounder DID struggle for real.

 Increasing their penetration levels adds more splintering when hitting slight angles and if square, through shot. Given ALL guns can hurt any ship at the moment, taking the norm - notable exceptions and extreme rank disparity ( rank 7 versus rank 1 fully built for thickness ) not considered, why attribute capabilities to cannon that would warp consistent and authentic ( as much as possible in a wargame ) outcomes ? ( talking guns, not ships )

Regrding the "compare to carronade" situation, yeah, i will agree. But the carronade ship relies more on the speed to get to optimal range than range itself, while cannon decidedly needs range to win the exchange and maybe it hasn't the speed to keep itself out of the carronade.

Not sure if increasing output of smaller mass is a good idea.

Regarding the original post...

If the 3rd Rate becomes the Crafted ship that acts as counter balance option for DLC Redoutable/Implacable - just because of the 36 pounder - sure... why not.

 

Well actually it's because why on earth would someone take the 3rd rate when the Bellona is in all terms the same or better m so making it unique compared to Bello would probably give it maybe some sort of  fame boost. So we will see it more in ow and in combats 

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

3 minutes ago, Lukas97Austria said:

Well actually it's because why on earth would someone take the 3rd rate when the Bellona is in all terms the same or better m so making it unique compared to Bello would probably give it maybe some sort of  fame boost. So we will see it more in ow and in combats 

Permits ? I always feel the ship building permit acts as a good abstract decision making element.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Hethwill

[Jan van Santen]

27 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

 

Regarding the original post...

If the 3rd Rate becomes the Crafted ship that acts as counter balance option for DLC Redoutable/Implacable - just because of the 36 pounder - sure... why not.

 

Right now Implacable vs 3rd: 1020 vs 781 (Broadside) 

36 pdr on 3rd: 1020 vs 837

 Compared to Impla the 3rd lacks punch on all decks: 24 vs 18, 12 vs 9

my 2cts: Bring Bellona back into ow and make both Bellona and 3rd faster/more agile. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Jan van Santen

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

3 minutes ago, Jan van Santen said:

Doesn't look like doing much. 

Readily DLC ship versus ship available without need of DLC. DLC 1020 vs no DLC 837. First gets no port qualities, second does.

Yep, doesn't look like anything really  

Have a fine day gentlemen and ladies.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Hethwill

[Jan van Santen]

51 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Readily DLC ship versus ship available without need of DLC. DLC 1020 vs no DLC 837. First gets no port qualities, second does.

Yep, doesn't look like anything really  

Have a fine day gentlemen and ladies.

 

53 minutes ago, Jan van Santen said:

Right now Implacable vs 3rd: 1020 vs 781 (Broadside) 

Implacable isnt DLC.....it is crafteable (albeit with a chest permit) and also gets port boni.  

The DLC would be Redoutable (939 broadside.).

"readily available" is debatable as we talk about more $ here than the original game cost.

Btw: DLC's get port boni, too, albeit random.

In short: I have the Redoutable DLC ...and did redeem a few nice purple ones meanwhile....but I still sail a crafted blue Implacable in the 3rd ranks.

(And I still think an upgrade to 3rd/Bellona should come -if at all- in the form of agility/speed)

Edited May 28, 2020 by Jan van Santen

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Correct, was more referring to Redoutable.

Readily available means exactly that.

0 or 1

 

[Stilgar]

Speaking the truth I am not that bothered with redoutable's firepower: a more agile generic 3rd rate would be able to keep the distance and engage / disengage at will.

Do we really need all 3rd rate ships to be very similar?

[Swedish Berserker]

On 5/28/2020 at 8:19 AM, Lukas97Austria said:

You are joking. Normally if you watch both ships the Bellona is in every therm better. But due it's a game and balance matters I would say give the 3rd rate better mobility. But it has less fire power. Isn't so hard to change and it won't make the ship broken etc. 

He is not talking about buffing Bellona compared to a 3rd rate lol 

He is talking about Bellona vs Temeraire Class so not every Redout or Implac shaits on a bellona 

[Lt Sekiro]

On 5/28/2020 at 7:37 AM, Kejsaren said:

Sekiro voted no, good luck with this🤣

 

@Captain Reverseis your own only hope.

I 'm ok with a buff of the 3rd rate

But pls not 36pd

36pd is pretty same as a 42pd. Is you give him 36pd you kill wasa/bellona.

Make him more tanky is a good point , or faster

FREE THE 32 PD!

[Barbarosa]

Just go and buy new DLC Victory. What are you still discussing here?! 😂😂😂