float plane Float planes

[gamerfromspace]

So here's my Idea of Float planes and what mechanics they will add to the game:

Sections:

1. Ship components
2. Aircraft Mechanics
3. Ship Mechanics
4. Other additions

 

Ship Components:

• I could say that the components could be narrowed down into 3 sections: Catapult, Crane, Parking rails/hangar.

The catapult:

• The catapult could come in multiple forms-
• Planes have to always launch upwind.
• A catapult mounted on turrets- This would save deck space however decease turret traverse speed.
• A catapult turret- would take of deck space, but wont impact turret performance.
• Stationary catapult- Cheapest however the ship has to turn so that the plate launches upwind.

 

Crane:

• Cranes will have a simple mechanic of transporting planes between water, catapult and storage.
• They could come with different sizes which will have different areas effect, which would also take up different amounts of deck space and have different costs.
• Rails could also be used to transport aircraft from storage to catapult without using cranes

 

Storage:

• Could come in two forms, form of parking rails or hangars.
• Rails will be cheaper, faster to transfer the plane to the catapults, however plane is more vulnerable and takes longer time to repair/ refuel/ and possibly rearm.
• Hangars will offer more protection to the aircraft, speed up repair, refuel and rearming of aircraft at a greater cost and a cost of setup time
• Both will take up deck space, however if the ship is big enough it could have a under deck hangar like Yamato.
• Some Towers like the one of FIJI could contain hangars for float planes.

The hangar is behind rectangular door found on the rear of the main tower.

 

Aircraft game mechanics:

What will aircraft bring:

• Aircraft will increase identification speed.
• Aircraft will increase the visibility.
• Aircraft will increase gun accuracy.
• Aircraft could shoot down enemy scout planes.
• Small bombs or depth charges could be mounted to deal minor damage to the enemy.

 

Limitations:

• Aircraft will take different times to setup depending on aircraft, and its storage position.
• Aircraft will have to take off upwind so if the catapult is unable to move the ship will have to orientate itself.
• Aircraft will have limited fuel so once their out of fuel they will have to come back to ship to refuel.
• Very limited quantity of aircraft could be stored on ships, once their gone their gone
• Aircraft could be damaged on ships from naval artillery.

Other:

• Aircraft could be repaired when back on the ship.
• The damage taken to aircraft handling systems will have an impact on the speed of aircraft services.
• If systems get destroyed certain actions to the aircraft cant be taken, for example if cranes get fully destroyed, the plane cant be put back on ship unless there is another crane.

 

Ship Mechanics

• A whole new weapon systems will have to be added to games in form of AA guns, there will be 3 types of AA systems, short, medium and long ranges.
• Short range AA- these will be small calibre auto cannons, 25mm and below, These weapons will be the cheapest, least accurate but greatest rate of fire and the lowest alpha damage. These guns will not fire at enemy vessels,
• Medium range- something around 40mm in calibre, will have average rate of fire, medium range, and medium damage per shot, however these could still cripple planes easily. Earlier eras will not have rapid fire medium guns but single action as 40mm AA auto cannons weren't really used on ship in the first world war period.
• Long range- These will be calibres ranging from secondary gun calibre up 8 inch cruiser sized guns. These guns are best at longer ranges and will deal critical damage to planes if they score a direct hit. Air burst shells will damage planes if their are near them. Dual purpose artillery could be used however the weapons will need to be upgraded via weapon control systems for AA which would increase cost and weight of the weapons. Also air burst shells will take up that weapons ammo storage.
• [examples of AA guns provided below]
• How ships are designed will change and more options will be unlocked depending how we want to be prepared against float planes or whether want float planes of our own on ships.
• Aviation fuel stored on aircraft will also be considered and it could possibly be a weak point and it will increase the displacement of the ship.

Oerlikon 20mm used by many nations

Soviet V11 37mm

British QF 3 inch

More examples can be provided if requested.

Other game play additions

• Players could build dedicated AA ships or ships dedicated to carrying float planes which would be an early game addition of aircraft carriers.
• There could be a naval academy mission where you have to defend a fleet from aerial attacks.
• These additions could be used to possibly develop aircraft carriers in the future.

 

[Cdodders]

Given I want to build AA blockships from every class possible, including Pre-Dreads, I approve

[gamerfromspace]

12 hours ago, Cdodders said:

Given I want to build AA blockships from every class possible, including Pre-Dreads, I approve

Same here, I also want to build a float plane carrier 

[DougToss]

I'm fine with abstracted air a la RTW just going off of how long it took RTW 2 to develop the air system, with the added problem that air in this title would have to be modelled in detail and 3D. 

Task Force Admiral is doing a commendable job, but they're working with just the USN and just a few years, with later titles to cover the IJN and eventually more nations and theatres. For UA:D to cover air warfare across several nations from 1900-whenever would be a massive undertaking, probably taking years. 

[Wowzery]

Personally I think with planes you're opening up a whole other world as players want not just float planes but carriers which adds more code, problems, and battle systems.  I'd rather they work on getting the other aspects of the game better before even starting to tackle this beast.

[nimbalo500]

Some classes, like the german super battleship and battlecruiser, have the floatplane launchers built into the bridge so i have no doubt they plan on adding it.

[disc]

I think that spotter/scout aircraft could be added in simple ways.

As special modules, the ship designer could allow the player to add catapults. As mentioned, some are already modeled -- I don't think particularly many models would be necessary, and indeed adding just one rotating catapult might be sufficient, for now. This would give ships the ability to launch planes. Certain hulls and towers could give bonuses, such as increased hangar capacity. Additionally, the player could have the option to select different types of plane. There needn't be many visual plane models, either, and just one could work as a start.

Battle mechanics could be pretty easy. With a ship selected, the player could have a button to launch a plane. A plane would appear on a catapult, launch, and then fly up and disappear. The launching ship could then receive a bonus to long-range accuracy or scout distant enemies. If there are more planes in the hangar, the player could launch another after a short time, for compounded effects.

After a certain amount of time -- a few game hours, depending on plane type -- the bonus would run out, displayed to the player as a plane fuel bar. The player would get the option to recover any launched planes, which would require the ship to slow down for a time. The plane(s) would reappear, fly down, and land on the water near the ship. A crane might extend to pick up the plane, at which point it might again disappear, and after a certain time become available for launch again.

The planes would naturally add a fire hazard, possibly either a base increase to fire chance, or by increasing the fire chance of a specific compartment. On the other hand, they might also have positive campaign effects, adding to scouting ability and adding some anti-submarine capability to any ship that carries them.

For an even simpler implementation, no need to add any new animations or fancy mechanics. Just give these flat bonuses to ships with a catapult installed.

 

I don't think it is proof planes will be added, but some of the Italian cruiser hulls also have catapults and hangars modeled, in their bows.

[johnson smith]

Aircraft in general should not be the main focus, maybe after the game is finished they could look into it. However i would to have AA mount as a decorate, the ship looks weird without it 

[Ruan]

On 5/25/2020 at 12:19 PM, Wowzery said:

Personally I think with planes you're opening up a whole other world as players want not just float planes but carriers which adds more code, problems, and battle systems.  I'd rather they work on getting the other aspects of the game better before even starting to tackle this beast.

Without a doubt. At the very least float planes should be added. They're an integral part of the History of Dreadnoughts. I would suspect that if the Devs did add aircraft it would be later after the campaign was completed and possibly as a expansion. At any rate if they want this game to compete with games like RtW2 it's going to need to look at aircraft long and hard. As right now the simulation is vastly inferior to RtW2 and the only thing going for UA:D is visuals. At least from my point of view.

[gamerfromspace]

On 5/29/2020 at 7:36 AM, johnson smith said:

Aircraft in general should not be the main focus, maybe after the game is finished they could look into it. However i would to have AA mount as a decorate, the ship looks weird without it 

I feel even a simpler float plate mechanism than i mentioned would still be good, just a catapult that lets you launch a spotter that will help to identify ship and increase accuracy for the given ship, then that would need to add some simple AA guns, personally i don't think that would be too complex to do but I'm not a game dev. However id love aircraft carriers in the future, even if its a paid DLC

[Admiral Lütjens]

On 5/21/2020 at 5:35 PM, gamerfromspace said:

So here's my Idea of Float planes and what mechanics they will add to the game:

Sections:

1. Ship components
2. Aircraft Mechanics
3. Ship Mechanics
4. Other additions

 

Ship Components:

• I could say that the components could be narrowed down into 3 sections: Catapult, Crane, Parking rails/hangar.

The catapult:

• The catapult could come in multiple forms-
• Planes have to always launch upwind.
• A catapult mounted on turrets- This would save deck space however decease turret traverse speed.
• A catapult turret- would take of deck space, but wont impact turret performance.
• Stationary catapult- Cheapest however the ship has to turn so that the plate launches upwind.

 

Crane:

• Cranes will have a simple mechanic of transporting planes between water, catapult and storage.
• They could come with different sizes which will have different areas effect, which would also take up different amounts of deck space and have different costs.
• Rails could also be used to transport aircraft from storage to catapult without using cranes

 

Storage:

• Could come in two forms, form of parking rails or hangars.
• Rails will be cheaper, faster to transfer the plane to the catapults, however plane is more vulnerable and takes longer time to repair/ refuel/ and possibly rearm.
• Hangars will offer more protection to the aircraft, speed up repair, refuel and rearming of aircraft at a greater cost and a cost of setup time
• Both will take up deck space, however if the ship is big enough it could have a under deck hangar like Yamato.
• Some Towers like the one of FIJI could contain hangars for float planes.

The hangar is behind rectangular door found on the rear of the main tower.

 

Aircraft game mechanics:

What will aircraft bring:

• Aircraft will increase identification speed.
• Aircraft will increase the visibility.
• Aircraft will increase gun accuracy.
• Aircraft could shoot down enemy scout planes.
• Small bombs or depth charges could be mounted to deal minor damage to the enemy.

 

Limitations:

• Aircraft will take different times to setup depending on aircraft, and its storage position.
• Aircraft will have to take off upwind so if the catapult is unable to move the ship will have to orientate itself.
• Aircraft will have limited fuel so once their out of fuel they will have to come back to ship to refuel.
• Very limited quantity of aircraft could be stored on ships, once their gone their gone
• Aircraft could be damaged on ships from naval artillery.

Other:

• Aircraft could be repaired when back on the ship.
• The damage taken to aircraft handling systems will have an impact on the speed of aircraft services.
• If systems get destroyed certain actions to the aircraft cant be taken, for example if cranes get fully destroyed, the plane cant be put back on ship unless there is another crane.

 

Ship Mechanics

• A whole new weapon systems will have to be added to games in form of AA guns, there will be 3 types of AA systems, short, medium and long ranges.
• Short range AA- these will be small calibre auto cannons, 25mm and below, These weapons will be the cheapest, least accurate but greatest rate of fire and the lowest alpha damage. These guns will not fire at enemy vessels,
• Medium range- something around 40mm in calibre, will have average rate of fire, medium range, and medium damage per shot, however these could still cripple planes easily. Earlier eras will not have rapid fire medium guns but single action as 40mm AA auto cannons weren't really used on ship in the first world war period.
• Long range- These will be calibres ranging from secondary gun calibre up 8 inch cruiser sized guns. These guns are best at longer ranges and will deal critical damage to planes if they score a direct hit. Air burst shells will damage planes if their are near them. Dual purpose artillery could be used however the weapons will need to be upgraded via weapon control systems for AA which would increase cost and weight of the weapons. Also air burst shells will take up that weapons ammo storage.
• [examples of AA guns provided below]
• How ships are designed will change and more options will be unlocked depending how we want to be prepared against float planes or whether want float planes of our own on ships.
• Aviation fuel stored on aircraft will also be considered and it could possibly be a weak point and it will increase the displacement of the ship.

Oerlikon 20mm used by many nations

Soviet V11 37mm

British QF 3 inch

More examples can be provided if requested.

Other game play additions

• Players could build dedicated AA ships or ships dedicated to carrying float planes which would be an early game addition of aircraft carriers.
• There could be a naval academy mission where you have to defend a fleet from aerial attacks.
• These additions could be used to possibly develop aircraft carriers in the future.

 

SO GOOD İDEA REALLY KATAPULT MECHANİC GOOD

[Xenospartan653]

One thing to keep in mind is that UA:D gameplay, currently, is very strictly on the tactical level, within the dozens of kilometers. You wouldn't launch a floatplane - or any plane, really - once you've already made contact and are in gunnery/torpedo range of the enemy. By the time, say, a cruiser squadron has engaged their enemy with their batteries, their floatplanes were either launched several hours ago (IE, the catapults would be empty), or, equally likely, weren't launched at all, and nobody's going to be scrambling to launch them when the ship's under fire.

Aircraft combat and engagement should definitely be implemented - it became a vital, integral part of dreadnought and post-dreadnought warfare the second Lexington, Saratoga, Akagi, and Kaga were converted - but having the ability to launch aircraft while already in combat is silly. If a ship has a catapult, give the option before the battle to have the aircraft already launched, or make it random - if the fleet was caught with it's pants down, maybe no planes, whereas if they had tactical/strategic initiative, then they have the benefits of having recon planes already in place.

This, incidentally, is also why Lexington&Saratoga originally had 8 8"/55cal guns - to duke it out with a raiding cruiser squadron that their aircraft squadrons didn't catch. These guns were later removed, of course, to make way for more AA (and because their air complement had become far more potent), but you can't really launch a dive-bomber squadron when you're already engaged with gunfire, no matter what Battlestations: Pacific likes to pretend. It's just not really feasible.

[shingo3130]

I like the idea, especially if we have to choose what kind of plane to prioritize (fighter, bomber, or scout plane) but I think it'd be simpler, at least at first, to do away with the idea of a hangar and crane, and just have the ability to place 1 or more catapults with preloaded single planes, that won't return to your ship during the battle but rather fly away to either an airbase or a seaplane tender.

[Sauragnmon]

I have to say, when I read the idea of that naval academy mission of defending a fleet from an air attack.. I immediately thought of Prince of Wales' situation as the outline for the mission.  2" guns are 50.8mm, which could realistically cover things like Bofors guns and the like.  Though it would be a field to include, for dual purpose guns, to differentiate the guns, so you avoid the big honking main battery trying to go flak battery with HE rounds, though I'm also reminded of Yamato's Beehive rounds for her main guns.

I would love to take a whirl at that mission, at building keel-up a battleship with an armament intended to defend against aircraft as well as small ships.