Totally Lost and I don't mean location...

[USS Long Beach]

I have tried to play this game but I can't figure out anything. Literally anything.

I started with the naval academy but nothing is explained. What is fore and aft balancing and why do I care?  That would be one of about 50 questions.

Today I jumped to the Destroyer  scenario that is against one CA and a few transports. I thought I got more than one destroyer and I see a reference to destroyer I,II, and III in the build screen but I only end up with one, Which is sunk in about 5 minutes.  

I can't begin to build a ship, way too complicated, so I always choose auto-build ,but still end up with one ship. Which is probably better because I would never be able to control three ships anyway.

 

I tried a couple of videos, but the guy seemed to know less than me.

 

ANy suggestions?

[roachbeef]

29 minutes ago, USS Long Beach said:

What is fore and aft balancing and why do I care

Use the floating tooltips. If you mouse over the stats on the right side of the dockyard, it'll show buffs and penalties from all of the various stats.

[Skeksis]

You have to study the specifications (spec's), I mean every spec! It’s that sort off game, it’s not about just placing components (if you do this you won't win), you have to design by spec, so soon as you do this, “figured out” what spec or spec’s will suit or be the best for the mission then you will know what components to place/use, then mastered the game you will have. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Skeksis

[Cptbarney]

Ye, its all about learning the ins and a outs, learning what each stat does so you can min-max properly or at least get the most out of your design half the time. Pitch, roll, turning circle, time to turn, base accuracy, flash fire chance are just some of the few things you need to watch out for in-general nevermind the rest.

[USS Long Beach]

Well, thanks to the info so far. But I need a reference point to start. A good explanation of each component and how it fits together.  

 

But it's not a big deal. I'm use to buying games and then putting them on the shelf. Which I'm afraid this one is going to end up there. 

Nothing against the game developers or the players, I just expect more documentation and information. I don't think it should be incumbent upon the player to devote his life to figuring out a game. A game, by definition, is entertainment. A little info goes a long way to avoid frustrating the buyer, or potential buyers. 

[HusariuS]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsJCJD1tAzTZ1eUUiskH-9w/featured

Watch this guy early episodes (as he usually just skips building process for some reason in the recent videos.).

Here is his first episode about this game:

 

[Norbert Sattler]

No offense, but using a bit of common sense wouldn't hurt either.

That fore-weight offset might mean that you have too much weight at the front of your ship isn't exactly a scientific revelation. Or that you can get rid of said offset by moving stuff further to the back.

[madham82]

HistoryGuy and Stealth17 gaming I both watched a lot before I bought the game. Their early videos are definitely good teaching the subtle basics. 

[brucesim2003]

10 hours ago, HusariuS said:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsJCJD1tAzTZ1eUUiskH-9w/featured

Watch this guy early episodes (as he usually just skips building process for some reason in the recent videos.).

Here is his first episode about this game:

 

No, you don't want to go by his designs. Generally they are terrible. Tries to do too much on a given displacement.

[BobRoss0902]

7 minutes ago, brucesim2003 said:

No, you don't want to go by his designs. Generally they are terrible. Tries to do too much on a given displacement.

I'm just not gonna comment on this one as I always go for using up every gram of displacement.

[brucesim2003]

1 hour ago, BobRoss0902 said:

I'm just not gonna comment on this one as I always go for using up every gram of displacement.

Yes, use every ton you have. But trying to put 12x 15" on 25k tons and then wondering why your ship is made of paper is a bit of a head scratcher. Having 4-5 different caliber batteries, with a battery of only 1-2 guns is a waste.

Edited May 20, 2020 by brucesim2003

[Cptbarney]

2 hours ago, brucesim2003 said:

Yes, use every ton you have. But trying to put 12x 15" on 25k tons and then wondering why your ship is made of paper is a bit of a head scratcher. Having 4-5 different caliber batteries, with a battery of only 1-2 guns is a waste.

I havent seen his recent designs after december but some of the videos made me cringe hard however. Sometimes drives me up the bloody wall lol. Wish we had more unique hulls for each nation even if they are made up.

[HusariuS]

4 hours ago, brucesim2003 said:

No, you don't want to go by his designs. Generally they are terrible. Tries to do too much on a given displacement.

...he doesn't need to copy his designs... He only needs to learn some basic informations from those videos like why he should care about offset, etc.

Besides, most of his designs are impossible to recreate now due to changes in module costs, weights, etc.

Edited May 20, 2020 by HusariuS

[Shaftoe]

Use these two things: google and common sense. Should help a lot.

 

[Cptbarney]

1 hour ago, HusariuS said:

...he doesn't need to copy his designs... He only needs to learn some basic informations from those videos like why he should care about offset, etc.

Besides, most of his designs are impossible to recreate now due to changes in module costs, weights, etc.

49 minutes ago, Shaftoe said:

Use these two things: google and common sense. Should help a lot.

 

I reckon threads like these will become very common once we go early access and closed/open beta. I guess the devs could make some video tuts on how to do stuff, but 99% wont bother looking at them regardless which is a shame.

[Mooncatt]

It's a shame the op feels like this. I totally understand his frustrations regarding the fact there is no verbal tutorial video for players that basically have very little understanding of games like this, but want to try. Not everyone is an expert and neither was I when I first started playing (I'm still no expert) 

Having said all that the game really isn't that hard to figure out if you give it a chance 

 

[Norbert Sattler]

I hope they'll make some kind of tutorial before the main release.

[Cptbarney]

8 minutes ago, Norbert Sattler said:

I hope they'll make some kind of tutorial before the main release.

Hopefully, i just hope peeps watch it or they make seperate the first few missions into tut missions and grey out the rest so that once you do these missions the rest become avaliable (so like 6-8 missions or something).

[Shaftoe]

What devs should do is make in-game learning materials (aka "manual" or "tutorials") very easy to access, so even the (proverbial) blind will quickly find them. I suggest placing "Manual" button in main menu, right above "Naval Academy", and secondary relatively LARGE button that will be seen in-game or during ship construction phase somewhere on the top.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Shaftoe

[DougToss]

I keep saying historical teaching tools would be great. I would recommend everyone read the books in the reference section of the forum here, and also check out the relevant Osprey titles. They are offering free books weekly during Covid as well. 

For the Devs, I would suggest making, or hiring someone to make something at least as in-depth as Civpedia. Naval architecture is a complicated business, and designing warships even more so. Possibly, budget permitting, I would reach out to Osprey and see if one of their authors would be interested in making encyclopedia pages outlining the principles of ship design, a glossary of terms, labelled cutaways, diagrams and so on. 

[Norbert Sattler]

While it would be nice to have better documentation, many people will still go to the forum rather than read something. Though an in-game tutorial (preferably with voice acting) seems to be used by far more people.
The "good old times" when people still read game-manuals is long gone apparently.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Norbert Sattler

[brucesim2003]

1 hour ago, Norbert Sattler said:

The "good old times" when people still read game-manuals is long gone apparently.

Can't read what's not provided. Remember when game manuals were 100+ pages? They were a good read in their own right. Now you're lucky if you get a 10 page pdf for most games.

[Norbert Sattler]

True, but at the same time you have a lot of forum posts of people asking stuff that is in the manual even when there is a manual. And you don't even have to go to another game for proof. UA:D already has a help section and yet questions that are answered in that still regularly pop up in the forum.

To give just one example, under "Ship Design Basics" -> "Pitch and Roll" there is an explanation of what the consequences of weight offsets are.

[DougToss]

The manual for John Tiller's Naval Campaigns is 90+ pages long, I'd say that's pretty close to the gold standard. The Rule The Waves 2 manual clocks in at 75, and it is suggested that players also read the Steam and Iron manual which sits at 18, plus the campaign manual which is 11. The GWAS Jutland  manual and playbook are hefty tomes, plus Avalanche has outstanding online articles, like this one on gunnery. It's worth having a good manual, I know it is a lost art, but it is really, truly worth it. 

I still have the Falcon 4.0 manual, years after switching to DCS because at 580 pages, it still teaches you everything you need to know about air combat, avionics, the F-16 and so much more. Imagine what you could learn from a 600 page book on designing and fighting warships from 1900-1940? 

[Norbert Sattler]

Oh you can sure learn a lot from an extrensive manual... but only if you are willing to read it.
The problem is that even with the comparetively few pages that are currently in the game right now, people do not read that and instead come ask in the forum (or complain).
If a couple of paragraphs are already too much reading for some people, do you think they'll be willing to read dozens or hundreds of pages?

Don't get me wrong, I would appreciate a nice manual like you, but I am pragmatic enough to realize that we are in the minority here and that a manual alone will not solve the issue. A tutorial is most likely the better choice. Though if we could get both a manual and ingame tutorials that would be best.