Elites AI boarding excessively powerful

[Vitasalato]

Hello, I've been playing around with boarding for a while now and I've noticed how the Elites AI are extremely powerful, in my opinion to a point of being too much. I understand that during boarding Elites should be harder to fight than normal AI, but not such degree.

Here's an example. To give some context:

• L'Ocean (No boarding mods or skillbooks) vs AI Elite Agamennon
• Target has been graped and crew is down to 160-170 crew before boarding
• Own preparation and morale at 100 and crew of about 900
• Height deck difference of 2

First boarding goes like this, and had to disengage due to low morale (last turns are missing):

 

From this is possible to see how ineffective any action seems. Muskets have a kill rate of about 2-3%, compared to the enemy 70%. Yes choices are not optimal, and I will not comment on what the kill rate should or should not be, but I believe that given the great difference of the situational factors (size of crew facing, difference in morale, firepower etc.), 2-3% vs 70% seems a bit too much and unrealistic. Now Part 2.

At this point I disengaged from the boarding, fired another broadside of grape in the stern and activated a Rum repair to heal up crew. Finally boarded for a second time.

Starting point:

 

Few turns into the boarding.

 

At this point things gets out of control. In the first turn the "most effective" choice of Musket volley of 229 against Defend scores only 7 kills.

In the last turn in the picture, the enemy scores 60 kills with only 24-30 muskets! I understand that a single shell could kill two men if they happen to be lined up and close enough, but a kill ratio of over 2 seems again just too much.

In the end I captured the ship, sadly last turns are missing.

In conclusion, surely there might be some mechanic behind of which I'm unaware, and in this case it should be made more clear in something like tutorials or some kind of documentation. However, I also belive that current AI Elite boarding should be toned down to something still hard to fight, but not unrealistic and frustrating. I also understand if more data are needed, and that's also something that can be worked on.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Vitasalato

[BoatyMcBoatFace]

Its normal. Typically you just dont board elite ai 

 

and boarding ai in general is still a gamble

[Sea Archer]

There is a reason they are called elite, adjust you tactics to their abilities and you will be fine.

[Beeekonda]

15 minutes ago, Sea Archer said:

There is a reason they are called elite, adjust you tactics to their abilities and you will be fine.

Care to share your adjusted tactics on boarding Elite AI with us?

[Never]

You should be attacking during his grenades/muskets, not using your own muskets. Also why would you go for boarding if you have nothing to improve your boarding abilities/skills?

Should also note that even if AI is very buffed in boarding, they do not fire broadsides at you during boarding. If you board from a decent position you can kill tons of crew on the AI ship with ease just by firing your guns. 

AI doesn't chain you so you always have full speed and maneuverability of your ship and you can chain the AI to make getting into a very favourable boarding position very easy. 

Board from the stern of the enemy ship and it's not even remotely challenging to win vs AI. Which is also too 'dumb' to know when not to tack. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Never

[Sea Archer]

17 minutes ago, Beeekonda said:

Care to share your adjusted tactics on boarding Elite AI with us?

Never board elite ai. Why do you have to board every ship? Simply sink and loot them.

[Vitasalato]

Thanks for all the comments, however the point of this post was not to start a discussion on how improve my boarding tactics, when or when not board and so on, but rather to report to the developers in a more detailed way than the limited F11 function what I belive to be a bug/imbalance in the boarding system, and if that's not the case hopfully to be told the motivations behind these choices.

[JollyRoger1516]

There are two issues with this boarding action on an Elite Belle Poule:

For one the enemy crew has less then half of my crew yet more then half of my marines despite the fact that I have Marines 15 - the AI does not cheat does it @admin?!

Despite outnumbering the enemy both in regular crew and marines and the fact that the enemy is sinking and should technically require men on survival, my attack on a brace only results in a 15-15 kill count - this boarding action literally required me to wear the AI down to nearly 0 crew even though I had properly softened up the enemy prior to engaging in boarding.

I get that AI is a difficult thing to develop and balance but this is literally so overpowered that any newer player who does not have my experience and would attack much sooner thinking that boarding mods would give him/her an advantage in the boarding action will get instantly outnumbered and killed. This continues to be an issue and needs looking at, especially given that it invalidates large amounts of privateer/pirate gameplay against traders (small ships targeting traders of all sizes) or combat boarding in bigger battles!

[BoatyMcBoatFace]

ofc ai cheats. did you just start playing? all ai cheats. elite ai cheats more

[ExGavalonnj1]

Never do anything but brace and attack vs ai, they are buffed so much that anything else is pretty much a waste. Brace when your prep is below 60 and then attack at the last second when its over 60.  

[Sir Texas Sir]

7 hours ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

Its normal. Typically you just dont board elite ai 

 

and boarding ai in general is still a gamble

Than they shouldn't have events that you have to board the AI to capture the ships.  I was taking a christian board fitted against the SC and Diana's and struggling to board them with more crew.  How the hell do you capture an Admiraal de Ruyter if you can't board them?   In these cases we have bring a bigger ship and it has to be fully board modded.  A none board moded ship would most likely take for ever or loose the fight. 

Than you get a crappy green fir/oak ship as a rewards.......ELITE SHIPS SHOULD GIVE ELITE REWARDS.

6 hours ago, Sea Archer said:

Never board elite ai. Why do you have to board every ship? Simply sink and loot them.

Some of us don't board every ship, but if I'm a privateer with all the board mods I should be able to board ships instead of ducking it out, specially if it's a much more powerfull ship broad side than mine.   Also why should I play only one style?  It's an open world sand box so I should be able to play it how I want.

 

My issue isn't the defence side of the ELITE AI.  It's the power level they have.  Even when you are completly board fitted and have more marines and muskets and crew than Elite AI they have way more firepower than you do.   It's not balanced at all. I get they don't want us to just rage board every ship out there and normally most of us don't do that, but it's the only way to get some of the rewards and rare ships is you have to capture them.   

The other issue as above, why do we get crap ships, ELITE SHIPS should always be seasonal woods combo as you fight an ELITE ship, than it should give you an ELITE REWARD.   I get if it drops a note, but that note should be ELITE quality ship not some random trash ship that was no where close to what you just fought.  Even more of a joke is when you don't get notes or cannons and all you get is repairs or another stupid D**** PUMP.......

[Aster]

We need Greta in here to how dare you! AI does not cheat anything else is heresy of the highest order.

[BoatyMcBoatFace]

6 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Than they shouldn't have events that you have to board the AI to capture the ships.  I was taking a christian board fitted against the SC and Diana's and struggling to board them with more crew.  How the hell do you capture an Admiraal de Ruyter if you can't board them?   In these cases we have bring a bigger ship and it has to be fully board modded.  A none board moded ship would most likely take for ever or loose the fight. 

Than you get a crappy green fir/oak ship as a rewards.......ELITE SHIPS SHOULD GIVE ELITE REWARDS.

Some of us don't board every ship, but if I'm a privateer with all the board mods I should be able to board ships instead of ducking it out, specially if it's a much more powerfull ship broad side than mine.   Also why should I play only one style?  It's an open world sand box so I should be able to play it how I want.

 

My issue isn't the defence side of the ELITE AI.  It's the power level they have.  Even when you are completly board fitted and have more marines and muskets and crew than Elite AI they have way more firepower than you do.   It's not balanced at all. I get they don't want us to just rage board every ship out there and normally most of us don't do that, but it's the only way to get some of the rewards and rare ships is you have to capture them.   

The other issue as above, why do we get crap ships, ELITE SHIPS should always be seasonal woods combo as you fight an ELITE ship, than it should give you an ELITE REWARD.   I get if it drops a note, but that note should be ELITE quality ship not some random trash ship that was no where close to what you just fought.  Even more of a joke is when you don't get notes or cannons and all you get is repairs or another stupid D**** PUMP.......

events are a separate bag of toxic 

just in general ai boarding is beyond broken. 

[JollyRoger1516]

13 hours ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

ofc ai cheats. did you just start playing? all ai cheats. elite ai cheats more

I was being sarcastic as the admin has claimed that in the past! - Again I get that AI gets certain perks to make it competitive but they just have too many and too excessive ones.

In regards to the marines crew count I have the distinct feeling that they still use the old system of blue marines = 25% of the crew are marines (I really don't remember the numbers well). Aside from the numerical imbalance that creates adding to that is the fact that marines have no impact on AI ships.