Speeds of predreadnoughts much too high

[Sternack]

I love that you folks modeled the Brandenburgs, but your Brandenburgs seem to start out at 25 1/2 knots while the originals could only manage 17 knots when brand new.

No predreadnought battleship other than the Roma class did over 20 kts. Most did 18-19. Ships from the early 90s could often only manage 15-16.

No armoured cruiser before Blucher (1907) did over 23 kts. Most did 20-21. The huge German four stacker liner Friedrich Der Grosse only did 22 1/2 kts.

A few very fast 2nd class protected cruisers (Varyag) could do 23 kts but most did 19-20. 

3rd class (light) cruisers were only running about 22kts just before turbines came in. The Russians did build two small cruisers with destroyer machinery that could do 24 kts. 

If I were going to model ships with 1890-1906 triple expansion machinery I would start with the Japanese six-six fleet battleships (18kt design speed) and armored cruisers (21kts). If you can get them to hit their numbers everything else should fall into place. 

Hate to start with a quibble. You  did model fleet speed vs flank speed very nicely. And whoever designed those beautiful Brandenburgs deserves a statue at the entrance to your drydock.

[Shaftoe]

It's a known issue universally despised by the community. AI manages to make unimaginable ship designs, partially due to the fact that it has no range (tonnage) restrictions like we do.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Shaftoe

[TBRSIM]

Those two small cruisers with destroyer machinery that could do 24kn were Russian copies of a light cruiser that could do 25kn and was build by the Germans (Schichau/Danzig) for the Russians...

 

But I quibble

[Galis]

5 hours ago, Shaftoe said:

It's a known issue universally despised by the community. AI manages to make unimaginable ship designs, partially due to the fact that it has no range (tonnage) restrictions like we do.

This is probably why AI is always able to cramp impossible amounts of armor into their ships lmao 
Nothing like seeing a dreadnought with over 6 or 7 meters of belt armor. 

[Latur Husky]

14 hours ago, Galis said:

This is probably why AI is always able to cramp impossible amounts of armor into their ships lmao 
Nothing like seeing a dreadnought with over 6 or 7 meters of belt armor. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Latur Husky

[Tycondero]

I think these issues (besides an AI design rebalance) can easily be resolved if older hull types are given some sort of displacement/draft drag penalty. That way we can still design fast battleships in a realistic manner later in the game whilst retaining slower speeds in the early part of the game. Hull/ship design matters as well (not just the engine tech), not sure whether this is properly implemented atm.

Also the entire idea about the speed bonus/penalty should be reworked to include the relative direction/speed vectors, but that is something I mentioned a couple of times already and still holds imo.

[Latur Husky]

6 hours ago, Tycondero said:

I think these issues (besides an AI design rebalance) can easily be resolved if older hull types are given some sort of displacement/draft drag penalty. That way we can still design fast battleships in a realistic manner later in the game whilst retaining slower speeds in the early part of the game. Hull/ship design matters as well (not just the engine tech), not sure whether this is properly implemented atm.

Also the entire idea about the speed bonus/penalty should be reworked to include the relative direction/speed vectors, but that is something I mentioned a couple of times already and still holds imo.

The game is doing it intentionally so that designs are not absolutely boring. It lets you go beyond was historically accurate, but they need to balance the cost of such so going too fast would be more punishing or require more sacrifices in other areas. A true test of how well those designs work will be seen in campaign when economy will be actual factor. Right now we are limited to pre-designed scenarios that are meant to be challenging but they don't really include how it will impact players or AI's economic situation. 

[Steeltrap]

On 4/27/2020 at 4:33 PM, Latur Husky said:

OK, this made me laugh.

🙃