Casual vs Hardcore Gamer

[Cannonball]

To the point,

Why Naval Action should be deep, rich, massive and geared towards players that can devote hours into it.

 

Back story

I've played many PC games over the years from first person shooters to MMO's. In 1990 my dad bought my brother and I our first used Pentium 286. Not for homework, photoshot but for gaming. Needless to say I am a thoroughbred gamer that devotes many moons and past relationships in search for the ultimate fun factor in games.

 

Point of View

Arguments suggesting that Naval Action should focus on casual gamers or even keep them in mind is a flimsy one. MMO's/Simulators are not like first person shooters, sports games or phone aps where you can play for 30 minutes before going to work your graveyard shift then study for a midterm. MMO's/Simulators are designed to be played where you have to put forth time and effort so that they may be rewarded with a rich meaningful gaming experience. That doesn't mean you have to be a single unemployed 24 year old male living in mom's basement only to leave the room to use the restroom or the occasional family dinner to be successful at this game.

For example, I have a wife, kid, am in college and in the Army so being deployed for 9 months is a possibility. Even still I think this game should NOT be handicapped because casual gamers don't have enough time. Things like a skirmish or arena mode where players can sail their ships in a non penalty environment should be implemented to satisfy the casual gamer, but that's it.

 

The more you put into something the greater the reward should be. This applies towards school, working out at the gym or in this case a MMO/Simulator PC game. Players that manage their time should be rewarded with bigger ships, better economic resources more money etc... If someone has more time than me with every ship in game and can sink me with eas then good for them, I'll tell my self atleast I get laid. The world (including game developers) should not try to please the entire demographic, because they will end up pleasing no one. Naval Action's main focus should be building as realistic and deep game as possible. If you are limited on game time such as myself then you have to make time. If I want to play a game that requires many hours then I have to make time by being efficient when it comes to my obligations such as; school, work or family. Always placing my mandatory obligations first and being time efficient I will make time to play Naval Action.

 

Closing

Naval Action is selling itself as a naval combat simulator with the ability of exploration. For those of you that don't know that means it's essentially time consuming. That's not a bad thing, again the more you put into something the greater the reward should be. We've taken poles regarding sailing times and how immersive this game should be and I think it's safe to say that the community wants a deep massive game.

I am open to counter points, but stand by my opinion. Naval Action should make this game as immersive as possible for rewarding game play for years to come.

-Cannonball

[OlavDeng2]

They are actually doing both, keeping the arena mode which is currently in will appeal to the casual gamer/those who dont have much time while the open world is more for those that are invested.

[Grim DeGrim]

My divorce settlement will disagree with your logic...

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

Casual - Smooth learning curve. Un complicated mechanics.

 

Hardcore - Challenging mechanics. Demanding learning curve.

 

Has nothing to do with time. A "bloody" casual can spend 24/7 while a HC can spend only 2 hours per week. Both seek different types of fun and game challenge.

 

A 24/7 eve, wow or even wot and wt is not HC by any length.

 

A steel fury, histwar, steel beasts, dcs, that spends a saturday evening per week is not a casual.

[Grim DeGrim]

PS - Stop labeling me!

[BlindProphet]

I am open to counter points, but stand by my opinion. Naval Action should make this game as immersive as possible for rewarding game play for years to come.

 

 

 

 

-Cannonball

 

 

I wish I knew what your point was...

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

I wish I knew what your point was...

 

The only thing that I could make out of the entire post was - The more you put into something the greater the reward should be. - I truly hope the something is not time spent or whatever non related to "learning curve" and "knowledge" and "skillful use of the simulation"... etc

 

Something = learning the game, evolving the use of the ships, surpassing the challenge curve.

The reward being a better gameplay for himself and therefore more success in his missions and open world career.

[Galileus]

Crater to ME! Games are made for ME! These are MY games!

 

Sigh. Again.

 

PS. And because no-one ever gets it, not arguing points of the post, arguing the form of the post.

[ajffighter86]

I don't mean to sound bitter or anything, but there are already so many games out there that cater to the casual gamer. I was having a discussion with someone in chat about having multiple modes, such as, arcade, realistic, maybe even simulator (i.e. the War Thunder system, which eventually got screwed up as the 'arcade' characteristics spilled over into the realistic community). His claim was that such a system would end up splitting the community, but I think it's important to admit that there's already a divide within the community over whether they want a casual or hardcore (or at least, semi-realistic) experience from this game. We can expect the division to become more visible as the community grows.

 

I'm one who can be guilty at times of wanting a 'jump -right-in-a-newly-unlocked-ship-and-go -PURE!-BOSS!-on-everyone-else' kind of experience. If you see me when I first unlock a ship in game, I'm usually b****ing in chat about how the ship doesn't do what I want it to do. 'It sucks compared to the one before it, blah blah blah.' That's day one.

 

Then by day 2 or 3 maybe, I've learned enough about the ship to become decent with it, just in time to unlock another and start raging over its flaws, lol. The cycle repeats. But after it's all said and done, I've come to appreciate what the developers have done in trying to make each ship unique in handling and so forth. I like the learning curve, even if it can be a pain to overcome. It makes me feel like I've accomplished something once I become (somewhat) useful with a particular ship.

 

edit: I forgot to mention that I think one thing that really makes a realistic game enjoyable is the community of gamers, and teachers. In arcade-style games, there's really no need for people like ramjb or bismark to make videos showing others how to use vehicles (be they planes or ships). Arcade games are pretty easy for each player to figure out on their own, which lessens the value of the community as it becomes more of an individual effort and learning-curves are instantaneous, and the other people you play against are just a bunch of nobodies you can blast away at and forget about. Steam is chock full of those games, but there's not much out there for those who seek something different.

 

Mid game, I learned one day from someone else just telling people in chat, that the trincomalee has no rear guns, and told us to stay near its rear. That VERY SAME DAY, I was able to share my newfound knowledge in the middle of another match with someone else who didn't know that about the trincomalee's weakness, and he will go on to tell someone else so on and so forth. It encourages not only team-work in a game, but also team-knowledge-sharing. This gives the game, as well as the community, vitality and vibrancy. Those are the games you keep coming back to, rather than the ones you beat in a week and start saving up another $40 for something else which will quickly grow stale.

 

I hate to sound like a broken record when I speak about the game, but I absolutely hated flying German planes in War Thunder until I stumbled on Bismark's video of the Fockewulf (sp?) 190 and the way he used the boom-zoom tactics. I was always trying to out-turn American and British planes and quickly learned that it was the wrong way to use the plane. I just thought the planes sucked until I learned what they were good at. I would have simply given up on the German planes if no one had put forth the effort to teach others.

 

That's what I hope the developers of Naval Action have in mind. A community of gamers that aren't selfish independent arcade gamers (not saying all are), but will instead take time to show others the ropes. —but I do hope they will keep arcade/deathmatch modes for people who understandably are looking for a game they can jump into for 30 minutes before they have to feed the kids, finish that presentation for work, and do real-life things.

[Destraex]

I think i know where you are coming from. However being a hard core gamer has nothing to do with time. As said above look at world of Warcraft. One of the simplest games you can play in terms of actual game mechanics but casuals play it by the truckload because grinding.

[Mirones]

as said befor

arena style will stay + the ones in arena can sign up for Escort duty http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/1757-battle-availability-gank-post-fleet-duty/?hl=escort

Openworld itself will have enough features that even the ones who only have a couple hourse per week get some enjoyment:

exploring the sea itself step by step begining from the homeport to the next island group, Fishing, shortrange hauling/trading.

 

dont start ranting about things wich havn't been developed yet.

[Cannonball]

Fantastic insight guys.

 

The amount of time a player contributes towards playing, the type of monitors or pc rig they have, the level of difficulty they prefer, the knowledge of past games, game mechanics and engines all contribute to the "type of gamer" a person is. I made this post speaking in generality and I'm aware these are not the only attributes that define gamers.

 

With that said, a casual gamer doesn't have Alien Ware with 4 monitors while spending 8 hours a day quad boxing different games in a custom computer chair hanging from the ceiling. I'm not saying you have to be rich to be "hardcore". I was broke for 5 years working at a night club kicking drunks out making minimum wage.

 

I bring this up because I've seen a few, not a lot, but a few post's of people saying Naval Action should cater towards the casual market. To much time spent, is one of the attributes generally associated with the casual market. My point was clear to me but I'll reiterate it again. Naval Action shouldn't be handicapped in favor of the casual market. Simulators and MMO's (in general) attract players that want to spend more time playing a game than other activities. 

 

Yes, arena mod will be a great feature to allow players to get comfortable, test ships, practice group fights in a safe non loss environment. But the open world map should not be shrunk, the loss system should not be lenient, open world materials should not be reduced to simplify the game. 

 

The idea of forums in particular this pre-game phase forum is to make recommendations to the devs. My recommendation, make this game as grand and open as possible with deep, rich mechanics.

 

Great insight guys :-)

 

-Cannonball

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

You cannot measure HC and casuals through the hardware.

 

A flight sim fanatic has way better hardware than a WoT gook.

 

It is all about the Game it self. HC players demand difficulty and not a progression tree. Unlocks, loot and all that junk is bloody casual. If it is the bigger part of the game design then a HC player won't even look to it.

 

HC player likes to evolve his own aptitude while the casual junkie likes to evolve his own character power.

 

Naval Action is still in the mist. It is not overly complicated in the mechanics so far so it is neither for HC or casuals. We have yet to see where she goes.

 

My recommendation is to have a deep regard for history and captain career in the Open World mechanics along with a more intricate ways of being a captain of a ship especially during a battle.

 

WASD + manual steering + smoothbore sniping  is what we have at the moment. It can only improve.

 

Very eager to see Open World.

 

Only then shall I make up any conclusions.

 

As it is is just a very cool game depicting a very enticing age in history.

[Mirones]

take Ryan as example his office his a ship so he cant play the game unless once a couple months for a few hours and he likes it.

another one whould be from the french forum who is part of the Crew of the L'Hermione.

 

and i recomand stop using the term casual 

casual have become people who have no enough braincell to play a game above the Retro Arcade automat in the local Bowlinghall.

and dont bother reading the forums or ask for help but instead complains and cry right away.

 

on these forums there are barely any people that would let a new player down when he asks for help.

if he does this he is not a casual but a new player wich has some problems with the game.

if he doesnt he is an simply ignorant douchebag.

 

going by who has the most hardware or time to play doesnt matter.

[RAMJB]

I'm going to point something I always thought was WT's worst mistake. They started their development promising realistic gameplay, realistic matchups, no balance measures done on anything but historical plane features, and historical matchmaking.

 

Halfway across something happened and they did a 180º turn into turning their game into a better looking World of Tanks with airplanes and, well, tanks. Essentially from being a totally different title from WoT offering totally different stuff, they went on to challenge WoT in their own turf - casual arcadeish gameplays with "balance by stats" and not historical matchups.

They tried to challenge the king. They lost the bid (At this moment I think it's safe to say WT will never be an equal to WoT, and they tried to be). For all it's casualness and arcadeness WoT is a very good game at what it does and has a huge headstart over WT. People who've spent 2 years grinding and spending money in WoT won't do a changeover to WT no matter it looks better. You need to be a much better game to get that kind of people to leave the game they've spent so much time/money in. And WT is not that better. In fact very few games can be, for WoT again, for what it is is excellent.

 

 

Moneyhungry devs tend to think that the money is in the masses of casuals, but casuals don't spend as much money as dedicated players (for once), and they tend to stick with the game they've spent the most time grinding in. Because if they leave that's (for them) a waste of the time and money they have sunk in a given game. So sure, there are millions in casual gamer MMOs. But they are taken. By WarGaming. And they won't flee to another game just because. WT did everything wrong: they pissed their realistic loving playerbase by going arcadeish, and they didn't grab enough arcade lovers to really take off. WT is doing well money wise, but it hasn't taken off in player numbers and honestly, I don't see it ever doing it. Because they took the wrong choice of trying to beat competition at what they're best.


Naval Action devs are pretty intelligent dudes. I'm sure they won't fall for the same trap. In a world where Hyunday sells a lot because they're cheap and cost effective, Porsche still earns a lot of money selling top-of-the-line sports cars which are really,really expensive...but which also are the real deal when it comes down to cars.

 

I guess everyone can understand the comparison here .