Reinstate Indefatigable as a 5th?

[Ronald Speirs]

Hi all,

Coming back to the game after some time i noticed the Indefatigable has been pushed up into the 4th rate category and looking at the overall statistics its hardly any different from an endymion, the only real difference is if its full carronade which maybe some people do but when you combine the carro and cannon builds they are only pound differance of 656lb on and Endymion compared to 690lb on an Indefatigable, structure and build of the ship the indef is practically the same thickness and HP just lacking the speed, so its abit of a question to did it really need to be pushed up a class?

People might have a differenent view on it but i thought i would just make a little poll on others views on the ship, as a 4th its kinda feels like its just lacking alittle HP for the class and its no real difference in firepower and if we are going of carronade power then the trincomalee isnt far behind the Indef at all though it does lack HP and thickness, what are others thoughts on the ship in its current class?

[Serk]

Yes, and Consitution back to 4th rate

[Ronald Speirs]

82% surely thats enough grounds for a demotion

 

[Slim McSauce]

Indef and Connie should both be 4th. Indef has the 42 carros that makes it crazy powerful ad a frigate, connie has beefie boi armor that makes it super strong as a frigate. Trinc is the cutoff for normal frigate because of 32 carros. Endy is in the same league. Aggie is poof trash but fits into 4th rate category on decks alone. 4th rates are defined as the odd bunches 

[Ronald Speirs]

32 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Indef and Connie should both be 4th. Indef has the 42 carros that makes it crazy powerful ad a frigate, connie has beefie boi armor that makes it super strong as a frigate. Trinc is the cutoff for normal frigate because of 32 carros. Endy is in the same league. Aggie is poof trash but fits into 4th rate category on decks alone. 4th rates are defined as the odd bunches 

unless u go full carro with indef then the carro cannon combo is hardly any difference between endy and indef, and just straight cannons the endy wins, unless they up the HP and thickness on the indef then it shouldnt be in a 4th rate category

[Slim McSauce]

3 minutes ago, Ronald Speirs said:

unless u go full carro with indef then the carro cannon combo is hardly any difference between endy and indef, and just straight cannons the endy wins, unless they up the HP and thickness on the indef then it shouldnt be in a 4th rate category

42's on the indef out dps a connie 3rd rate. It's the potential that counts and nothing can change a endy to have the pure smack of the indef in brawler config. Connie and indef are two sides of the same extraordinary coin. One is guns, one is armor. You can't change either of those to put them in the same league as the endy or the trinc which are clear cut frigates.

[admin]

agree partly (on the constitution)
but indefag is a hull of a 4th rate.. (just shorter)

 

[pepepotamo]

No matter what you do with it, with the Redoutable as a dlc, with its characteristics of speed and turn added to the artillery plus the possibility of doing it with the special woods every day, you have made all the ships below it useless. So it's anecdotal to make any changes underneath that boat.

[erelkivtuadrater]

8 minutes ago, admin said:

agree partly (on the constitution)

you even have the USS Constitution pictured at the 5th rate frigate event, so deep within i dont think you just partly agree

[Chat Banned]

i do believe it should be reclassed as a 5th , but who am I?  Helping Hans keeps preventing me from unlocking books on my Indef  so I can not have a truly objective opinion on the matter.. but a base idef is not the same class as a base agaemennon (sp?)  .  that much i know

[Malcolm3]

1 hour ago, admin said:

but indefag is a hull of a 4th rate.. (just shorter)

But Indefatigable has armament of 5th rate, not 4th rate, being razee frigate. It's quite logical for it to be in 5th rate - more firepower, HP and thickness than others heavy frigates, but with random permit from the chest like Endymion (more speed and almost the same firepower with cannons)

[DeRuyter]

1 hour ago, admin said:

agree partly (on the constitution)
but indefag is a hull of a 4th rate.. (just shorter)

 

That's because she was a cut down or "razee'd" 64, essentially a 4th rate. 

[Jan van Santen]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Indefatigable_(1784)

HMS Indefatigable was one of the Ardent class 64-gun third-rate ships-of-the-line designed by Sir Thomas Slade in 1761 for the Royal Navy. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardent-class_ship_of_the_line

HMS Agamemnon also was a ship of the Ardent class.

 

So we have 2 ships of the same build, 1 is razed to a frigate, the other is left unchanged ..and yet both end up in NA in the same rank ???

 

Lets assume for the moment we do the same with Pavel, raze  it to Pavlicek....and afterwards we put both of them into 2nd rank ???

 

As to Connie/USUS: Idk about PvP, but on PvE their status as 3rd rate pushovers really makes it easy to lvl heavy 5th rates and all 4th rates  The game rewards you with exp as if Agamemmnon (4th, 340Br, 500 crew) vs Connie (3rd rate, 400 BR , 450 crew) were an uphill fight...

 

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Jan van Santen

[Sir Texas Sir]

We can always give the Connie and USS US higher BR (like current ones), but make them 4th rates again.

[GrubbyZebra]

10 hours ago, admin said:

agree partly (on the constitution)
but indefag is a hull of a 4th rate.. (just shorter)

 

@admin then make the Aggie the 3rd rate it was irl. It's wierd to have an Ardent 2 decker rated the same as a razeed Ardent in the game.

Edited April 3, 2020 by GrubbyZebra

[Slim McSauce]

What's weird is the razee'd version mounts 42 carros on both decks and the 64 version has no such layout for carronades.

[erelkivtuadrater]

IMO they shouldnt base the HP on the tons burthen it makes everything about the game unrealistic, since captains would usually surrender their ships long before they would be sunk, the connie could keep its base thickness considering thats what she was famous for, but the HP values on all ships should be balanced with a combination of a allrounder, glasscannon, and slug etc. I think doing this would make the game better along with the balancing in the long run alot better and it would feel alot more natural.

Same as with the development of the techonology across the era, we're talking about over 100 years in difference between the oldest to the youngest ship. Ingermanland vs Trincomalee is a great example. Ingermanland in the era it was made was a fairly large ship of the line, where there would be no talks about heavy 46 gun frigates etc

Edited April 4, 2020 by erelkivtuadrater

[Swedish Berserker]

In my opinion the Idef is fine on the lower part of the 4th rates due to the Fakt that it would be an overpowered 5th rate so it is legit to be in the 4th rates for the Connie/Uss I must say I would rather have her in the 4th  due to the Fakt that she just can't stand against other 3rd rates....