Detering Empty Attacker Port Battles

[Busterbloodvessel]

Definitions:

SHIPS IN FOREIT :  A ship marked by the admiralty as being subject to destruction if the attacking nation does not fulfil its TOTAL BR in a Port Battle.

TOTAL BR: The BR value of all SHIPS IN FORFEIT.

BR: Battle Rating (of course)

 

Mechanic:

1. After hostility is raised the attacking  Nation has to place ships into FORFEIT and these ships are marked as such (somehow).  No captured AI ships allowed as Forfeit. DLC ships are 20% (suggestion change to taste) forfeit BR value.

2. The value of the TOTAL BR of the SHIPS IN FORFEIT caps the BR value that the attacking side may use (if less than the port BR) in the PB. The Attacker's BR is published and available for all to see on the server, but not the make-up or number.  No ship may be placed in FORFEIT to increase the Attackers BR less than 2 hours before a PB (2 hours is my 'anti-griefing' suggestion, change to taste) the BR contribution of any FORFEIT ship which has been sunk prior to 2 hours before the PB is deducted from the attackers TOTAL BR. SHIPS IN FORFEIT may not be sold.

3. If the attacking CLAN does not fulfil the TOTAL BR commitment (i.e. they turn up short handed) then the missing BR is paid-for by the admiralty destroying FORFEIT ships  (whoever owns them!). Forfeit ship destruction would start at the smallest BR forfeit ship afloat, working up until the ship value of the missing PB BR value is either destroyed by Admiralty or already sunk (in PB or Screening etc.). It is NOT REQUIRED that a FORFEIT ship enters the PB although it could.

4. The defending fleet does not have any Forfeit requirement but may fill, or not fill, the PB as they see fit. If the attacker does not fill the PB then his loss is that of the port.

 

Consequences:

If an attacker does not provide FORFEIT ships he will have no BR to enter the PB and the defending side will see that it is an empty or lower attacking BR PB fleet at least 2 hours before the PB is due to start. Multi-flipping and empty PB's become either largely pointless or painful.

 

Buster (Shoot me!)

[HamBlower]

1 hour ago, Busterbloodvessel said:

Definitions:

SHIPS IN FOREIT :  A ship marked by the admiralty as being subject to destruction if the attacking nation does not fulfil its TOTAL BR in a Port Battle.

TOTAL BR: The BR value of all SHIPS IN FORFEIT.

BR: Battle Rating (of course)

 

Mechanic:

1. After hostility is raised the attacking  Nation has to place ships into FORFEIT and these ships are marked as such (somehow).  No captured AI ships allowed as Forfeit. DLC ships are 20% (suggestion change to taste) forfeit BR value.

2. The value of the TOTAL BR of the SHIPS IN FORFEIT caps the BR value that the attacking side may use (if less than the port BR) in the PB. The Attacker's BR is published and available for all to see on the server, but not the make-up or number.  No ship may be placed in FORFEIT to increase the Attackers BR less than 2 hours before a PB (2 hours is my 'anti-griefing' suggestion, change to taste) the BR contribution of any FORFEIT ship which has been sunk prior to 2 hours before the PB is deducted from the attackers TOTAL BR. SHIPS IN FORFEIT may not be sold.

3. If the attacking CLAN does not fulfil the TOTAL BR commitment (i.e. they turn up short handed) then the missing BR is paid-for by the admiralty destroying FORFEIT ships  (whoever owns them!). Forfeit ship destruction would start at the smallest BR forfeit ship afloat, working up until the ship value of the missing PB BR value is either destroyed by Admiralty or already sunk (in PB or Screening etc.). It is NOT REQUIRED that a FORFEIT ship enters the PB although it could.

4. The defending fleet does not have any Forfeit requirement but may fill, or not fill, the PB as they see fit. If the attacker does not fill the PB then his loss is that of the port.

 

Consequences:

If an attacker does not provide FORFEIT ships he will have no BR to enter the PB and the defending side will see that it is an empty or lower attacking BR PB fleet at least 2 hours before the PB is due to start. Multi-flipping and empty PB's become either largely pointless or painful.

 

Buster (Shoot me!)

NO!

What about screened PB Fleets?

A PB can be win even if the attackers don't fill the BR in total

 

This is a suggestion to kill RVR

[Sea Archer]

Empty PB can be a ruse of war, it is a way to split enemy forces. I see nothing bad in them. You can counter it by raising hostility yourself at a similar time, so the attacker has to choose  between defending his port or attacking yours. 

No problem at all.

[Busterbloodvessel]

1 hour ago, Staunberg🇩🇰 said:

Put in an surgestion so nations don’t use Dodge timers. Maybe clan main time timers and I am all for it. No show as Dodge timers is just bad for the game. I do have a couple of questions.

- How do you deside if a fleet was screened out, what mechanic will do that?

I would suggest that screening ships would be ones made liable to Forfeit If they get sunk in screening then they cannot be taken as Forfeit. If they don't get sunk they enter the PB or get the PB fleet in..

- Why the need for all server to see:

So the defender and everyone else can see that a PB without a forfeit BR will not take place, it will be an empty PB. Any fake attack costs ships of Forfeit is raised.

- A nation without a shipyard, how do you think they ever will be able to set the conditions you want, so they can set Pb?

DLC can raise Forfeit BR. I suggested 20% weighting but it could be higher, After all, a DLC cannot support two PBs.

- In regard to smal vs Big nations, who do you think benefits the most from your suggestion?

Pretty sure everyone has sat in empty PBs, over the years being in almost every nation at one time or another everyone has moaned about sitting in empty PBs. No-one support multi-flipping yet we all do it as a necessity in RvR. Personally, I would argue it is nation size neutral and would benefit the game, but its not a hill I'm going to die on

As I see you surgestion, it basicly is cost free for the Big nations, where as the small get punished hard.

Large nation make a lot of money from the ports they own. Small nations make less. So what that means a large nation can easily afford to trow empty Pb’s to tie up small to get an advantage.

Currently a large nation can flip 5 ports of a smaller nation (if they have 5 to flip ) and attack any one of 5 at no cost. Maybe there needs to be an escalator that requires that if you have a forfeit fleet the forfeit BR for the next battle decreases so instead of 10 fourth rates you need 15 to make the BR. i.e. eventually it gets too costly even for the bigger nation.  

If I am right in that large nations benefit the most from this, would the concequence then not be players from small nations eventually will go to a larger nation?

Not my intension. However, smaller nations are often allied with larger ones. As suggested there is no reason a larger nation could not give the smaller one ships available for forfeit if they chose but that would be gaming the mechanic.  I would like to eliminate empty PBs and multi-flips for everyone.

How do you see RvR, as basicly 2-4 large nation fighting, the rest without importance, ore a lot of nations have an impact, and thereby make the game more diverse?

I would like to see RvR and enjoyment for everyone and I don't think my suggestion would compromise that.

 

Buster (First shots)

P.S. You will see that  @HamBlower is in a clan that has LOADS of ships but he doesn't like this suggestion either!

 

 

[Busterbloodvessel]

 

1 hour ago, Sea Archer said:

Empty PB can be a ruse of war, it is a way to split enemy forces. I see nothing bad in them. You can counter it by raising hostility yourself at a similar time, so the attacker has to choose  between defending his port or attacking yours. 

No problem at all.

There ya go. Someone whose happy to sit in an empty Pb. This is a game for everyone.

Buster (yay)

Edited March 24, 2020 by Busterbloodvessel

[Busterbloodvessel]

1 hour ago, HamBlower said:

NO!

What about screened PB Fleets?

Put forfeit ships in the PB fleet or screen, you cant loose them twice. If its forfeit and you are going to loose it, fight to the death!

A PB can be win even if the attackers don't fill the BR in total

Yes and they can attack up to the level of whatever BR they have placed in forfeit (up to the port BTR limit).

This is a suggestion to kill RVR

Its not the intention.

See above

 

Buster (Slightly wounded)

Edited March 24, 2020 by Busterbloodvessel

[Busterbloodvessel]

2 minutes ago, Staunberg🇩🇰 said:

But what mechanic will deside if it is a screening fleet. How will the game deside that?

None required. 

If a FORFEIT SHIP is in the screening fleet and none of the PB Fleet get in to the PB then the ship is forfeit (when it docks next or at maintenance ? Season to taste).

For the PB Fleet not to get into the PB due to screening there must have been an opposing screening fleet for the FORFEIT ship to fight against. So, if you are going to loose the ship don't run, get stuck in.

If the PB Fleet doesn't get into the PB then any ship in the screen could join (if not in battle) providing the BR is available. This would be a battle decision by the nation. Once the PB is filled by any rag-bag of screening ships to the BR total there is no FORFEIT and even if half of the port BR is filled then only half of the FORFEIT BR (equivalent in ships) is confiscated and destroyed. If they enter the PB then the defenders have attackers to go for (if they fight), at least the PB is not empty.

Buster (six gun)

 

 

 

 

[Isaac J Smith]

No. Lets not have stupid mechanics to lose ships just for the sake of it.

 

Whilst some nations might be able to pump out 20 ships a day for port battles, not everyone has that luxury. This change would only hurt RvR in general - and disproportionately so for the smaller nations.

 

Instead lets see what Admin is proposing first (apparently something in the works which won't allow for no-shows).

 

Worst case, flags could be re-introduced at a cost and requiring a formed group within 10% of the BR. This would also eliminate having to PvE to attack a port.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Isaac J Smith

[Busterbloodvessel]

Am I detecting some resistance here

Buster (got knitting to do)

[Sea Archer]

11 minutes ago, Busterbloodvessel said:

 

There ya go. Someone whose happy to sit in an empty Pb. This is a game for everyone.

Buster (yay)

Never said I am happy. I just say it is a valid tactic to split enemy forces. I don't think that we should force people to fill the PBs. 

If I  see the defender has filled up full br and I cannot field that many ships, I would try to avoid that fight.

[Farrago]

Sorry, I know it’s frustrating to show up to an empty pb but this just seems like a bad idea.

1) Feigning an attack in one direction while attacking another is a valid (and useful) tactic in war.

2) Under your idea screeners don’t even need to sink the attackers, just delay them from reaching the pb. Of course this will “win” the pb which it does already but they can just kite and the end result is the screened attackers are “sunk” by being forfeit.