Discussion: Port battle points and cooldowns

[admin]

Hello Captains

We iterated OW ROE to almost perfect state through a lot of pain (sorry). It can probably be better, but searching for better options will disrupt pvp. Maybe its time to do a final review for the port battles.

Post your thoughts on the following

Battle itself: Capture zones, Points, Counters, Point distribution. 
Meta: entry circles, cool-downs between battles, BR for port battles

 

 

[Montagnes]

I would say the battle itself is fine. Perhaps requins should have a free counter cause it is too important to own such DLC.

 

BR on the other hand should promote more third rates and some random fourth instead of so many second and first.

Cooldowns are also fine to prevent rvr exhaustion. I would even increase it in some cases.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Montagnes

[D. Federico de Gravina y N]

Suggest:

- you need transport to carry the army to the beaches.

-Add more types of forts to make more diferentes ports(will be great use real maps to have real caribbean cities)

-Make a ship's control like World of warships or warthunder to limit the use of the same ship

 

[Liq]

Circle system is fine imo, eliminates kiting, if done right

BR for PBs could have a bit more variety. Maybe even go as far as having fixed fleet setups for each Port Battle (and give clans the option to fine tune the fleet setups a bit, but not changing the BR)

[AeRoTR]

I would say 1 big circle which generates more points, 2 smaller circles which generate less points.

This way there should be battle for big circle and 2 other circles are important but just for supporting. Kiting and using LRQs to occupy circles is not what a naval battle should be.

[FKL 1982]

44 minutes ago, admin said:

Hello Captains

We iterated OW ROE to almost perfect state through a lot of pain (sorry). It can probably be better, but searching for better options will disrupt pvp. Maybe its time to do a final review for the port battles.

Post your thoughts on the following

Battle itself: Capture zones, Points, Counters, Point distribution. 
Meta: entry circles, cool-downs between battles, BR for port battles

 

 

Please introduce a system that forces ship variety. I wont pretend its an easy change to implement. But something like (Let's take a 5700 BR as an example) A max of one 1st rate, two second rates, three third rate and the rest made up of 4th and smaller. It would make PBs more interesting than "let's just fill it with whatever the current meta ship is"

And please slow down point generation. Allow ship combat to be the primary cause of a win/loss

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by H982 FKL

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, H982 FKL said:

Please introduce a system that forces ship variety. I wont pretend its an easy change to implement. But something like (Let's take a 5700 BR as an example) A max of one 1st rate, two second rates, three third rate and the rest made up of 4th and smaller. It would make PBs more interesting than "let's just fill it with whatever the current meta ship is"

And please slow down point generation. Allow ship combat to be the primary cause of a win/loss

 

Maybe some more BR variation for ports as well

[Sir Loorkon]

BR should have more variety, maybe dynamic and oriented on the points and the income of a port as multipliers.

There should be a heavy penalty for raising hostility and not showing up at the portbattle. Best thing would be to make hostility missions cost Doubloons which will be refunded after a victorious battle or being given to the Defender when PB fleet is not showing up. There should also be a system to detect screening / battle activities around the PB port so screened out PB fleets count as a „show“ in the PB with no penalty. I do not know if this is doable coding wise but it is a pain - and we had it yesterday at Las Tortugas - when nearly 100 players are waiting inside and outside for a port battle attack fleet and no Spanish player is ( again) showing up. If you multiply the efforts of every player involved, such a „no show“ ruins several hundred gaming hours. That’s more than just bad taste. 
 

I would also suggest a more dynamic frontline system. How about making the hostility for the nearest enemy port cost e.g. 50.000 D, the second nearest 75.000 D, the third nearest 100.000 D ... ? 

Edited March 10, 2020 by Sir Loorkon

[van Veen]

Remove the circles from the port battles. Instead, the control points are the towers, the fortresses and the town itself. 

Add possibility to capture the town, towers and fortresses. Ships would need to go close to the destination and launch a landing party. This requires the ship to reduce its crew size. Additionally, a new craftable item "Marine" (requires muskets, gunpowder, provisions) could be used from ship hold (1 marine per unit weight). The capturing itself works like the boarding mini-game we have now. 

Add possibility to control town, towers and fortresses by players. 

If the attackers capture the town, it should be an instant win. 

 

[van Veen]

Economic warfare and looting towns. 

Add possibility to raid a town. A raid does not require a hostility mission, it can be done instantly. Sail towards the town (bring your friends), and attack the town. Then, a port battle instance is created (as described above). Attackers can attack the town, towers and fortresses. Capturing the town gives 10% (to be tweaked) of all goods, reales and doubloons that are currently in town. The money is removed from the clan warehouses. Defenders join at the docks. 

[mexicanbatman]

ports  where  usualy better defended  coastal defenses like forts would most likely been put in the best possible locations to cover the port and anyone entering .

 atm i feel like investing in port defenses is useless and it shows in these port battles yes i seen the occational ship being killed by a fort 

but defending is always easier than attacking  and atm i feel there needs to be change in port battle defense systems  we already have an attacking skilled based ship that can destroy forts and towers (it got nerfed to shit but it should return back to its former glory ) and this ship is counterable with small ships wich is fair but still defending side doesnt have anything special atm motar brigs arent even needed to attack a port there is no tactics involved in it beside  taking the wind and making sure you kill more than you lose and hold the cap points with shitty requins (wich should be banned from the port battle list its litteraly p2w port battle ship  with no counter except anhoter requin) 

only thing atm port battles are is proper ship vs ship battles wich we all enjoy alot but i feel its should be more focused in to attacking a port and conquering it 

like the attacker needs to bring indianmans to a certain point on the shore with soldiers inside (like the cargo missions we have ) for example  something thats more than just ship vs ship battle untill you sink enhough enemy ships that could show up on that time point depending on nation and then lose/win  

i understand atm thats not easy done  so this what i think

circles  are not in favor of defending nation (most of the time)  example forts should open up before enemy can enter the circle  wich then makes the motar brig needed in attacking unless you wanna offer up your tanky ship to take it and then we have less requin spam in circle

remove requin from port battles (hello kitty this ship) offers little to no counters except spamming requins against it

port battle BR : atm its some 3rds (only implac + redout)   mostly bucentaurs + l'oceans and sometimes santi's  

boring needs variation like 4th rate pb etc etc.   (4th rate is a fun class to have a pb fleet with  imo)

thats what i can come up with atm might add something to this later 

Edited March 10, 2020 by mexicanbatman

[Tac]

Thinking outside the box here and because forts are now almost impossible to destroy .

How about introducing a smaller duel circle in front of each large fort, only 1 ship from each side can enter the circle and it’s locked neither ship can leave until one is sunk. Introduces a different strategy , with a way to take/ nullify forts and brings good content for duelists and for streamers within PBs.

Just throwing it in the mix .

[Montagnes]

7 minutes ago, rediii said:

 

BR for port battles

   I miss the big portbattles. Not big with big ships but with many players. This would be fixable with either a higher BR for 2nd rates and/or more BR of the ports itself.

 

Other:

I would be still a big fan of making 3rd rates the most efficient BR wise ships (redoutable and implacable are no 3rd rates right now)

If you require many players for a port battle it could promote more multiflips and empty boring battles.

Third rates have to be the most used ship everywhere. It would fit perfectly from a gameplay and historical point of view. Making them the most efficient BR will definitely be the best fix.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

We already have a lot of multiflips everywhere on the map that have to be countered by timers. 5700 BR portbattles could be made into for example 7000 BR portbattles.

Or just switch some 5700 BR Ports to 7000 BR ports 

Or implement fixed setups (2x 1st, 2x 2nd, 3x3rd rate etc.) so more players are able to get into a PB. Something like that 

[SnovaZdorowa]

Как сказал один известный капитан 😉, отцепы есть вселенское зло.

Писать буду от виртуального "мы".

 

Мы готовились.

Мы накачивали город.

Мы взяли хорошие, и далеко не реактивные крафченые корабли, возможно даже из сухого дерева.

BR нашей баттл группы редко когда  20.000 чаще он 5.700

Пачка из нпц вик, половина из которых кроме модулей на скорость еще и брандеры, нанесет такому флоту огромный ущерб.

Даже в защите не зайти нормально, весь флот прижат ветром к берегу, и это можно обеспечить при накачке.

Царство безрукого зерга и на скилле не выехать ну никак. Это плохо, когда рулит зерг.

Опытные игроки на хороших кораблях перестают ходить на ПБ, некоторые уходят из игры, некоторые в соло пираты.

Маленькие нации вообще не имеют шансов.

 

Можно ли с этим что-то сделать? Можно, главное решиться, и приготовиться к волне вайна от безрукого зерга.

 

p.s. было бы более чем кстати *хорошо* перевести это на английский

[z4ys]

I would like to see more game modes as just capture the circle. Currently you did one portbattle you saw them all. Different modes could be unlocked by the way how hostility was generated. 

For example:

Hostility by sinking ai (current way)= capture the circle

Hostility by eco effort (like the hostility bomb we once had) = escort trade ships into a certain area to win (like the ai privateers did).

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by z4ys

[Guest]

Here's my take:

The circlegame is interesting and allow for several strategies, from "destroying" the enemy to winning on points (aka kiting).. I know some regards kiting as boring, but it's an artform with the current limitations on chains and it prevents the port battles from becoming a purely brawling event, you actually sometimes have to think about fleet composition. The lay-out of the circles is a bit generic but in essence I like it.

The le requin is a cancer in the port battles, mainly due to it's ability to take and hold circles without anything to prevent it - other than a le requin. As it is a DLC I don't see any possibility to prevent it from participating in PBs, but one could increase it's BR to fx. 300 or 400 and thereby prevent its use. Otherwise I think we need to find a counter because there's the risk of the LRQ becoming standard in PBs.

The BR of the ports is generic and boring. I'd like to see far more variety in the BR for the ports, mostly to force the participants to actually think about fleet composition before the battles and not just show up in the same ship they used the day before.

 

EDIT: Remove forts and towers from any ports other than the regional capitals. My reason is mostly that the pure number of forts/towers is completely unrealistic atm and I believe that there should be a greater emphasis on defence in the regional capital than the outlying ports.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Guest

[Celtiberofrog]

entry circles :

In order to possibly help weaker attackers, the external circle to enter PB could have much larger diameter, in that way heavy screening would be less effective. 

Stronger attackers will also enjoy more possible stealthiness.

When entering the PB, your ship will have a speed buffer for a few seconds in order to get closer to a restricted port distance faster.

Consequently, screening will have less impact and PB's will be less uncertain to reach for all attackers.

cool-downs between battles :

Actually, if PB's victories would be divided in at least 2 categories : Victory by points and victory by kills

Each category would have a different cooldown effect, in that way clock mechanics would become a bit more changeable. 

Could an empty PB (another victory category?) generate a much longer cooldown as a compensation ?

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

think about fleet composition.

There should be rate limits on each port (ie 1 1st rate, 2 2nd Rate, 5 3rd, etc) and yes Le req should be a 5th rate with 200 BR.

[Gregory Rainsborough]

I think the only thing that needs a major revamp for port battles is the BR.

Small nations and small clans stand no chance holding ports.

[van stiermarken]

2 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

There should be rate limits on each port (ie 1 1st rate, 2 2nd Rate, 5 3rd, etc) and yes Le req should be a 5th rate with 200 BR.

Often proposed from others and me too. A PB should not only include 1st rates. 

[Angus MacDuff]

What if the circles were like the PZ circle of death.  Once you enter...you cannot leave...

[Montagnes]

2 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

What if the circles were like the PZ circle of death.  Once you enter...you cannot leave...

No, it kills options.

[Gregory Rainsborough]

There's no point on "limiting" the ships going in, just balance the BRs of ships properly and the problem is resolved.

Eventually people will choose to take smaller ships if they're able because it's advantageous to them.

Look at the new Privateer meta for shallow PBs!

[Celtiberofrog]

3 minutes ago, rediii said:

As soon as you can click on the port to see its circles you can already join the battle. Maybe instead of the speedboost make it so you can only capture the circles even later than now.

I was thinking about forcing to enter PB from much far away as only choice  8))