Pay to Win DLC

[Tristan Wolfe]

Don't listen to them Admin let your whales be free I need more reasons to give you my paycheck.

[Conte D. Catellani]

If the Rotterdam will be a DLC we will have a drop in the production of deep water traders. 

[Smoothie]

5 minutes ago, Conte D. Catellani said:

If the Rotterdam will be a DLC we will have a drop in the production of deep water traders. 

I don't think so cause traders usually need more than one ship at a time. 

[GrubbyZebra]

17 minutes ago, Conte D. Catellani said:

If the Rotterdam will be a DLC we will have a drop in the production of deep water traders. 

If the Rotterdam follows the model of the LGVR, I don't think it will be an issue.

[erelkivtuadrater]

14 hours ago, Dark123 said:

1st rate dlc is nice for screening

AI 1st rates are better for screening, you can throw far more at the enemy with higher BR and doesn't cost you any money

@admin why is it so hard to make cosmetic dlcs for you in this game instead of ship dlcs when they're not being sold for their intended use, of course redoutable is being used now since you can have a guaranteed 3 upgrade best woods ship with the best stats in its class once every day. If you could pull out numbers, you would see far more people breaking up their ships for a chance to get seasoned woods instead of using their ships.

And if the reason to have DLC ships was to get quick action, what's the reason you even can redeem them as seasoned wood ships? IMO you should only be able to redeem the ship as seasoned if you have the required seasoned logs in the warehouse so you wouldn't be able to skip some of the most important content you recently added.

Edited February 19, 2020 by erelkivtuadrater

[erelkivtuadrater]

10 hours ago, Liq💋 said:

this

make it $99 if you have to, id still buy it

isnt it the charm about the ship though along with the design? that its the rarest ship ingame so just owning one makes it valuable

Edited February 19, 2020 by erelkivtuadrater

[Smoothie]

20 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

isnt it the charm about the ship though along with the design? that its the rarest ship ingame so just owning one makes it valuable

So rare that you never see it in the OW because everyone is scared to sail it? Hmm... I don't like that how it is now tbh. I would rather see it as DLC and see plenty of them sailing around.

[erelkivtuadrater]

6 hours ago, Smoothie said:

So rare that you never see it in the OW because everyone is scared to sail it? Hmm... I don't like that how it is now tbh. I would rather see it as DLC and see plenty of them sailing around.

dont sail what you cant afford to lose.

Edited February 19, 2020 by erelkivtuadrater

[Smoothie]

6 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

dont sail what you cant afford to lose.

Exactly. And this is why nobody is actually taking his Santa for a ride. It's a shame, isn't it?

[Kubrat]

9 hours ago, Smoothie said:

I don't think so cause traders usually need more than one ship at a time. 

Riiiiiight, you can only have one version of a DLC ship at a time wink emoji

 

[BuckleUpBones]

Top tier DLCs prove that “risk immersion” via lost of ship is a farce.

DLCs proves that players don’t care about the grind of ships to produce ‘fear of lost’ because if they did then no one would buy DLCs because there’s no risk with them.

DLCs is ‘no risk immersion’ and they selling like hotcakes! and they are producing more pvp content.

Proof that ‘sustainability’ was always the key to pvp content, not risk!

The only way forwards to beat p2w is to 'reduce the costs of all in-game ships', make them ‘sustainable’ (balance them against DLCs), start an arms race between DLCs and in-game ships, increasing pvp too.

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by BuckleUpBones

[LIONOFWALES]

On 2/19/2020 at 10:12 AM, BuckleUpBones said:

The only way forwards to beat p2w is to 'reduce the costs of all in-game ships', make them ‘sustainable’ (balance them against DLCs), start an arms race between DLCs and in-game ships, increasing pvp too.

I like your logic here I like creative thought, its good to see... I also would suggest making all 4th, 3rd, and any subsequent larger DLCs to have a one week cool down if this cant be applied.... then there is at least a little risk at taking out the DLC.

Line ships are for large scale maritime warfare. AKA... Port Battles, in my opinion... let me explain....

As it is in game... frigates are very sustainable to build... save the seasoned woods of course.... However as soon as we step into the 4th rates... 3rd, 2nd.... and of course... 1rst rates... it becomes more difficult to replace such ships. Clans have the least difficulty replacing a handful of line ships. I believe that the line ship is a clan ship... at least that's my opinion. I have played the game since before launch and have around 2000 hours in game. I have a good base of knowledge regarding all the ins and outs of manufacturing ships in game, as many of us do now. But as a solo player, if I was worried about running line ships.... I wouldn't be solo... I would join a clan for the sustainability, to replace the line ship of course.

I think the point I am trying to push is just the fact that I will run ships that I can replace... so DLC is good for me... however... another point. I also believe that it would be ok to give 4th and 3rd rate ship DLC an extended cool down. Or even just change DLC cooldown so it starts after you lose the ship. I am a solo player and would be ok with this, why I would be ok with a long cool down.

I also should point out that I believe the devs of this game want to make a design that would encourage players to purchase a DLC for some reason or other. The question is... how to incorporate the DLC so as not to have too great an impact on in game economy, and still provide a use for them. 

Don't get me wrong... I love my DLC ships... all of them. Because they are easy to replace. However I think the 4th rate and the 3rd rate should have at least an extended cooldown in line with the required labor and materials to produce such a ship in game. I think this would help reduce the impact of DLC being overused. Its not a fix all. But could get DLC steered in the right direction. I don't think this would hurt sales at all... and would make DLC a little more accepted in game. 

If anyone else has ideas that could incorporate DLC better in game please list your ideas... the devs are always looking for ideas... they may or may not use them... but once in a while something good comes up and ends up in game.

Sail safe and sail well Captains.

Salute!

[LIONOFWALES]

On 2/18/2020 at 9:23 AM, Montagnes said:

Rotterdam, the trader warship, will be sold quite nicely instead. With the improvements to trading, many would welcome a ship able to truly defend itself.

Adding a first rate, such a powerful ship as DLC, will be detrimental to the game in the long term. 

I am especially excited about this ship.

[Earl of Grey]

On 2/18/2020 at 6:12 PM, admin said:

just to be clear.. we have not made decision on first rate DLCs  and might not add it. We just want to keep options open and are carefully looking at the Redoutable effect on the game. Thats why classic victory which is currently in development could be just a gift ship.   We will let everyone know in advance. there is a decent chance it might not happen. 

Im a big fan of the redoutable, but i really think DLC ships should not be bigger than redoutable. We have now a situation, that 3rd rates are really the working horses in RvR ... and everyone (with DLC) can now take Part in RVR in a usefull way ... let the players that want to play a bigger role (2nd rate and above) work for it ... we need some Long time motivation ...and of course some reason for crafting ...

[Batnavo]

just my 2 cents:

1st of all, any ship on the hands of a skillfull captain can be deadly, so, for this, we have to assume that in a 1vs1, both captains are on the same skill level.

I think - so would not be considered P2W - that all DLC's should be the worst or one of the worst ship in the class,and that there's at least 1 ship in the class best than the DLC and also easy to get or replace.

the DLC's: 

• 6th rate
  • le Requin: best 6th rate, definitely a P2W ship - no 6th rate can opose him. Although you can't win him you can run away.
• 5th rate
  • nothing to say here, Pandora and Hercules both are entry-level small frigates and easily beat by a big frigate like the Trinco.
  • l'Hermione althoug higher level than the 2 others is still no match for the Trinco.
  • Why I mention the Trincomalee? Because is the best 5th rate that you can easily get or replace.
• 4th rate
  • same has before, nothing to say here: the Agamemnon still is the king of 4th rates, the Rättvisan and the Leopard still fall behind.
  • Agamemnon doesn't need permit same as the Trinco: easy to get or replace.
• 3rd rate
  • This is were i have more issues... Wasa is the only 3rd rate that doens't need a permit, being this way the easiest 3rd rate to get.
  • The Redoutable is a 2nd rate in disquise, and only losing to the Implacable... a bit P2W as you can't find an alternative 3rd rate easily....

Due to the bit P2W that these DLC's  bring to the game I think the mats required to craft ships should be reduced,mainly from 4th rates and above, as it's cost is limiting it's production - you probably will be saving those resources for another ship.

 

[fox2run]

On 2/11/2020 at 2:00 PM, phantomswake said:

It is a trend that keeps seeping into the western market as a whole. But as you are seeing now its starting to over take this game as well. Now you need the newest DLC to compete and be a viable player, or you will be playing with such handicap that the game is not fun.

I was alright with the DLC being in the lower rate ships, let me stress not really happy but tolerant. I mean the La Wreck is nothing more than a seal clubber that I don't feel was good for the game but I put up with it. BUT NOW, there is DLC in our 3rd rates, something that should never have been touched. 1st to 3rd rates should never have been touched with DLC ships. IT's way to much of a power spike for anyone who buys the DLC over someone who doesn't.

Its to greedy. It bad for the game, I am not paying for it and I am sad that its here. I love this game, I want to see it do good, but not like this. Its to much and to far.

I see it more like a pay to fight option. DLC ships is more like taking a parachute on in a Spitfire compare to ww1 where parachutes where forbidden. I fight better in a DLC because I don't loose a week in grinding money and materials after loosing a ship.

Also DLC give me access to npc grind AND custom built ships as I also get dubloons. DLC has made the game playable for me again...

[MysteriousHonza]

On 2/27/2020 at 1:46 PM, Batnavo said:

just my 2 cents:

1st of all, any ship on the hands of a skillfull captain can be deadly, so, for this, we have to assume that in a 1vs1, both captains are on the same skill level.

I think - so would not be considered P2W - that all DLC's should be the worst or one of the worst ship in the class,and that there's at least 1 ship in the class best than the DLC and also easy to get or replace.

the DLC's: 

• 6th rate
  • le Requin: best 6th rate, definitely a P2W ship - no 6th rate can opose him. Although you can't win him you can run away.
• 5th rate
  • nothing to say here, Pandora and Hercules both are entry-level small frigates and easily beat by a big frigate like the Trinco.
  • l'Hermione althoug higher level than the 2 others is still no match for the Trinco.
  • Why I mention the Trincomalee? Because is the best 5th rate that you can easily get or replace.
• 4th rate
  • same has before, nothing to say here: the Agamemnon still is the king of 4th rates, the Rättvisan and the Leopard still fall behind.
  • Agamemnon doesn't need permit same as the Trinco: easy to get or replace.
• 3rd rate
  • This is were i have more issues... Wasa is the only 3rd rate that doens't need a permit, being this way the easiest 3rd rate to get.
  • The Redoutable is a 2nd rate in disquise, and only losing to the Implacable... a bit P2W as you can't find an alternative 3rd rate easily....

Due to the bit P2W that these DLC's  bring to the game I think the mats required to craft ships should be reduced,mainly from 4th rates and above, as it's cost is limiting it's production - you probably will be saving those resources for another ship.

 

Redoutable was designed as 3rd rate, implacable which is same class was even upgunned and designated as 3rd rate in royal navy too. Where is problem? Téméraire class was probably best and most advanced 3rd rate class ever built, outgunning older 3rd rates and sometimes iven 2nd rates. 

[CptYachu]

Why DLC ships can do hostility?

[admin]

On 2/19/2020 at 8:12 PM, BuckleUpBones said:

 

Proof that ‘sustainability’ was always the key to pvp content, not risk!

 

 

could be.
Also for a lot of players combat is so much better and more interesting than hauling and crafting, (yet some love hauling and making things to sell to others)
But here is the paradox. Both sea trials and na legends did not have crafting and hauling. 

I think the answer is very interesting and counter intuitive. Many players want to be in immersive world, but want to skip some parts of it when they want it. That's why many just do PVE on the PVP server, or just trade and fund wars for others.

 

[Malcolm3]

Just now, admin said:

I think the answer is very interesting and counter intuitive. Many players want to be in immersive world, but want to skip some parts of it when they want it.

In that case that immersive world should be run by the system (NPC activities) freeing players for just supplementing and changing it. I nthat case thier activities will have more sense and there fore will be less boring and grindy.

[Montagnes]

11 hours ago, admin said:

could be.
Also for a lot of players combat is so much better and more interesting than hauling and crafting, (yet some love hauling and making things to sell to others)
But here is the paradox. Both sea trials and na legends did not have crafting and hauling. 

I think the answer is very interesting and counter intuitive. Many players want to be in immersive world, but want to skip some parts of it when they want it. That's why many just do PVE on the PVP server, or just trade and fund wars for others.

 

I would say every player like an immersive world when they play a game. A rich world with many different activities (apart from combat) to choose, full of live and wow moments.

 

Hauling ressources is just moving ressources from point A to point B, a trip in an unimmersive world. OW is often a wasteland where nothing interesting, even visually speaking, happens.

Crafting ships is just a click. The only wow moment is when the rng gives you a special trim or more upgrade slots.

 

That´s why combat is so much better than the rest of the activities, cause they are lacking complexity and work.

 

Imo, the paradox is keeping changing the damage model when other areas of the game are asking for urgent attention.

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Montagnes

[HachiRoku]

On 2/27/2020 at 1:46 PM, Batnavo said:

just my 2 cents:

1st of all, any ship on the hands of a skillfull captain can be deadly, so, for this, we have to assume that in a 1vs1, both captains are on the same skill level.

I think - so would not be considered P2W - that all DLC's should be the worst or one of the worst ship in the class,and that there's at least 1 ship in the class best than the DLC and also easy to get or replace.

the DLC's: 

• 6th rate
  • le Requin: best 6th rate, definitely a P2W ship - no 6th rate can opose him. Although you can't win him you can run away.
• 5th rate
  • nothing to say here, Pandora and Hercules both are entry-level small frigates and easily beat by a big frigate like the Trinco.
  • l'Hermione althoug higher level than the 2 others is still no match for the Trinco.
  • Why I mention the Trincomalee? Because is the best 5th rate that you can easily get or replace.
• 4th rate
  • same has before, nothing to say here: the Agamemnon still is the king of 4th rates, the Rättvisan and the Leopard still fall behind.
  • Agamemnon doesn't need permit same as the Trinco: easy to get or replace.
• 3rd rate
  • This is were i have more issues... Wasa is the only 3rd rate that doens't need a permit, being this way the easiest 3rd rate to get.
  • The Redoutable is a 2nd rate in disquise, and only losing to the Implacable... a bit P2W as you can't find an alternative 3rd rate easily....

Due to the bit P2W that these DLC's  bring to the game I think the mats required to craft ships should be reduced,mainly from 4th rates and above, as it's cost is limiting it's production - you probably will be saving those resources for another ship.

 

I find it very curious on where people draw the line on what p2w is or not.  Just because a larger ship of that class exists makes the pandora somehow consistent and balanced to the rest of the game? That doesn't make sense because the game does not have a matchmaking system because its an open world mmo. Its not a stat problem but a economical problem. You're whole idea of judging if a ship is P2W or not is completely flawed. What is the difference between a small 5th rate and a large 6th rate? What is the difference between a large 4th rate and a small 3rd rate? Trinco vs Aggy is as close as a trinco vs a Pandora. 

You pay money and your ship is spawned in naval action. That is progress. Some call it convenience but the only reason players wanted this DLC model is because they were to lazy to spend the ingame TIME to build the ships.  

I have a proposal. Make all ships craftable and all ships DLC. If the DLC model is not flawed there will be no difference ingame except for more content. Only positives according to the devs. 

 

[Liq]

IMHO pay2win = paying for content you cant unlock by just playing the Game. Which is the Case with how DLCs work currently.

Suggestion: add DLC ships permits to the loottable of mission chests / add them to admiralty.

That way the lazy people can still just click a button to get a ship but there also is no right for anyone to claim p2w.

(Though probably wont be able to craft as many in seasoned logs)

WarThunder / Gaijin also were 100% sure a year or two ago they would never even consider adding top tier DLCs... Look at them now...

[Ronald Speirs]

I want my Endy, Indef and Trinc all DLC's then i can be even lazier and just get them every 24hrs and go PvP, if the game wasnt so boring and the OW economy was far better then we wouldnt need the DLC's, i enjoyed doing Economy and sailing the OW more in Pirate of the Burning Sea as it didnt take hours to get anywhere, making modules and upgrades didnt take heaps of resources or unique items, people could easily craft modules and then just sell them in bulk around the caribbean, if u wanted something perticular it would only take a quick 15 minutes to sail from Havana to Fort Royal example.

I think because the game is so big and slow that most dont wanna waste their time AFK sailing or even grinding to get resources or books or what ever slow and mundane system was implemented in this game so the DLC is a good way they can just buy something thrash and lose it while getting some Action considering this is what the games name is, this game has heaps of flawes but it is still one of the best Ship Combat systems out there its just the rest of the game sucks around it, so get urself a DLC just to play the fun part

[HachiRoku]

12 hours ago, hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh33333 said:

They could save themselves a lot of hate doing away with the ship rating system. BR mostly works fine as a metric of classifying the ability of a ship yet for things like patrol zone and missions they use the very imbalanced rating system. For people who use these aspects of the game frequently it means the best in class ships like the redoubtable (excluding implacable) cant be obtained with paying real money. When using a dlc like the redoubtable in solo patrol zone you know you will only ever face weaker ships. This also makes some dlcs like the hermione or pandora a far less compelling buy; why would I take one of those to a solo patrol zone to get slaughtered by trincs. I would love to see them do away with anything depening on ship rating and have missions, solo patrol zones, ect. based on a dynamic BR range. Would do away with the stigma of top in class dlcs being p2w and would encourage more variety, making middle and bottom of class ships far more useable.

The rating system is irrelevant even in game. Mods are kind of the only issue and I have never felt it was a major one. Removing it would not have much relevance from my perspective. The DLC model is not worth discussing anyway since it is an excellent source of income. Changing it now would basically be admitting that it is P2W. The devs do not think its P2W but then again name one developer that admits their game is p2w.