Louis Garneray Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 8 hours ago, admin said: Permits have zero correlation with online of the game. Well, if there is one two things that have affected my time in the game that's: The price to get the superior seasoned wood and the inability to build the ships I like unless I get a random drop of the permit.
Hethwill, the Red Duke Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said: it´ll be good for the gameplay to have all ship-rates as dlcs. more availability, more action,... i cannot see any argument against it, expcept some people fearing for their exclusive, crafted, high-bonus ships. It is the correct approach. Is all about "time investment", and as such a wargame life cycle of [ ----> supply bases ----> logistics -----> assets ----> war ----> supply bases ] that needs stress on logistics, in both creating and supplying assets, which in practice may work in a completely different environment, as it naturally reduces power creep; is broken given it doesn't affect the whole in NA ( such as the nation's navy power ) but affects the particular ( the one captain collection of ships ). But by simulating this the time investment may well be the most strenuous aspect of it given the fact that each player is a navy owner and must continuously build, upgrade, replace, etc. Hence the time investment becomes the most precious commodity - time sitting and playing the game. In the end the natural tendency, it seems in many mmos, is to bypass all burdens, by all means necessary. NA is no different from what I see now. Game is totally battle oriented with ports being the control points. And it is never ending. With little time investment there's little to own to risk/reward but a lot to gain for everyone with fast access to action wherever it is happening. Admin does point out that many, including myself, that put too much energy on suggesting a simulation wargame, were wrong and he may well say so. The sales in DLC products do tell the final story.
captain smile Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 Com on guys stop to complain, we have much more PVP since the redoutable is here. Captains that was afraid to fight in lineships before ( because the time you need to craft one if you loose) , are now much more courageous. Also , for the same BR you have St Pavel, Buc, or Christian that are much more powerfull. 2
Conte D. Catellani Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Hethwill said: Admin does point out that many, including myself, that put too much energy on suggesting a simulation wargame, were wrong and he may well say so. The sales in DLC products do tell the final story. But maybe giving more weight on the simulation wargame side, could be a strategy to be different respect other games like S&B
Mouth of Sauron Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 19 minutes ago, Louis Garneray said: Well, if there is one two things that have affected my time in the game that's: The price to get the superior seasoned wood and the inability to build the ships I like unless I get a random drop of the permit. You were gone well before the seasoned woods entered the game. The permit wall is a bit annoying, but it is directly related to how much time you actually spend in the game. Log in and do some screening action or port battles and you'll accumulate marks easy enough. I would prefer that seasoned woods were not in the game as it perpetuates the rich get richer playstyle that is already an issue with the game overall. But if you're like me and don't particularly care if you're sailing in them or not......it's easy to just ignore and move on. 1
Licinio Chiavari Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 More or less on the same argument... May I know why in the hell we keep adding (nice) ships (now - finally, great! - the LGVR) as NOTES and &%$£ redeemable MAKING A %$£"% PAIN to get a competitive one??? IS IT DAMN SO DIFFICULT TO ADD THE OPTION TO DAMN B-U-I-L-D THE D-A-M-N-E-D SHIP I WANT TO SAIL!? And I do not say to delete redeemables/notes and so on: SIMPLY ADD THE DAMNED O-P-T-I-O-N to get a £$"$£% PERMIT. 3
Genevieve Malfleurs Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, Hethwill said: It is the correct approach. Is all about "time investment", and as such a wargame life cycle of [ ----> supply bases ----> logistics -----> assets ----> war ----> supply bases ] that needs stress on logistics, in both creating and supplying assets, which in practice may work in a completely different environment, as it naturally reduces power creep; is broken given it doesn't affect the whole in NA ( such as the nation's navy power ) but affects the particular ( the one captain collection of ships ). But by simulating this the time investment may well be the most strenuous aspect of it given the fact that each player is a navy owner and must continuously build, upgrade, replace, etc. Hence the time investment becomes the most precious commodity - time sitting and playing the game. In the end the natural tendency, it seems in many mmos, is to bypass all burdens, by all means necessary. NA is no different from what I see now. Game is totally battle oriented with ports being the control points. And it is never ending. With little time investment there's little to own to risk/reward but a lot to gain for everyone with fast access to action wherever it is happening. Admin does point out that many, including myself, that put too much energy on suggesting a simulation wargame, were wrong and he may well say so. The sales in DLC products do tell the final story. very good summary! i agree and woud love to craft ship-parts for instance like it has been a while ago. the complexity could be much higher and enjoyable! but with the system we got right now i strongly tend to advertise for availability. otherwise it´ll be always only a rather little exclusive group with huge quantities of the good stuff murdering the rest and boasting about it. good balance is needed. that´s btw my thought of the dynamic battle-rating. a seasoned wood, well upgraded trinco with good cannons e.g. compared to a sabicu/crew space etc. is so much better - and please no "but it is skill that matters dumbarse!!" - that the br simply mustn´t be the same! the much inferior ship has to have a chance to get reinforcement. oops, i got off-topic now :)
Guest Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 14 minutes ago, hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh33333 said: Its a matter of being able to decide which dlc we wish to purchase, not everyone can afford every dlc. I was very excited to see wrecker, redoubtable and another victory (3 of my favourite ship classes) coming to the game. I was planning to purchase the redoubtable, however, I then saw your post saying wrecker class may come as a dlc. I prefer this class visually and can only afford one or the other so now I am left waiting until both are released to decide. Now theres the option of this victory dlc to consider. Supposed I had not seen the changes to which ships will be dlc and gone ahead and purchased the redoubtable only for the 2 ships I prefer and was looking forward to coming as craftable to be put behind a paywall. Limited budget, spent it on one ship believing the others I prefer and am excited for would be free, now cant use those ships - left feeling bitter and regretting my purchase. The alternative is my case, see the changes to whats coming as a dlc instead of crafted and then hold off purchasing for the 1-2 months until the different options are available for purchase. During that period of waiting im not accessing benefits you've listed of having the dlc. There is also a decent chance that in 6 weeks time my interests/budget will have changed and I may not end up purchasing any ship. I'm sure I cant be the only one in this sort of situation. For me the clarity of being able plan a limited budget to get the ships I like the most makes for a much more compelling purchase. U don't "need" every DLC in the game - you WANT every DLC in the game.. You don't even NEED one.. Want to fight in the shallows? - Snow's the most OP ship of its class and it's both magically unicorny and not a permitship.. Want to fight in a 5th rate? Who the hello kitty sails anything but a surp for the shallows or a trinc/endy for hunting? Want to sail a third rate? - Bellona is a better option and the wasa is still viable as a hunting ship. In fact I'd argue that I can kill most in their redoubtables 1v1 in the Wasa.. gotta love them front chaser, the faster turnrate and boarding you know.. Want to fight first rates? Well any first rate crafted is better than any DLC.. If u want to do RvR you can't rely on DLC ships, the RNG is simply too shitty.. As to the Wrecker vs. redoubtable? - I can kinda feel ya' but on the other hand, I've got the redoubtable and who is to say that a prettier 3rd rate won't come along down the line (and yes looks matter, I don't wanna sink in something looking like the wappen, worst looker among 'em), same deal - u make the choices u make on the basis of the information available.. 12 minutes ago, captain smile said: Com on guys stop to complain, we have much more PVP since the redoutable is here. Captains that was afraid to fight in lineships before ( because the time you need to craft one if you loose) , are now much more courageous. Also , for the same BR you have St Pavel, Buc, or Christian that are much more powerfull. Agreed 11 minutes ago, Conte D. Catellani said: But maybe giving more weight on the simulation wargame side, could be a strategy to be different respect other games like S&B That ship sailed with the privateer fleets. Let's not fool around here... Want econ to matter? - then allow a guerre de course to starve enemy nations of ressources. Want protection to trade/craft/lvl up ships and do PvE? - then u can't talk about econ strategy as something important to strategy. People cannot claim to want privateer fleets and at the same time rail against the DLC ships - both limits the ability to actually force an RvR outcome outside and inside of port battles, the first means that in order to "beat" your enemy u have to one port him. The second means that even one ported ppl can still play the game. Personally I think port bonus' should be available for all or removed entirely, remove the privateer fleets and let the war server be a war server.. Then we could discuss DLC ships as "pay2win" but atm? - that ship has sailed.
Yachteru Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 I still think i'll be nice for some lower rate dlcs too, partially because I like smaller ship but I'll wait with the pace of development ^^ At some point I would hope for bigger dock space as 30 ship slots would be not enough xD I'd pay the dlcs but I hope the extra slot extension isnt a paid content. Partially I also hope the money from the dlcs yall can make a really nice sea legends because I'm really looking forward to it =p I already love the yacht, requin and hercules but more could be nice too. 1
Yoha Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Lars Kjaer said: First off - stop comparing a Redoubtable in fine woods with another 3rd rate or even a 2nd rate in normal woods. If you want to make the comparison you need to have equal stats on both sides. Fx. A redoubtable vs. a bellona: The bellona is faster, turns slightly better, sligthly less deceleration (good for turning through the wind) and the bellona has a slightly better sailing profile.. It's broadside is neglible less than the redoubtable and even if we regard the carros there isn't much difference.. The largest difference is the dpm difference between the 36pd compared to the 32pds, but that isn't a major difference. This is the baseline. Now we can add rare woods. Let's take a bellona in teak/WO with port bonus' from SJ vs. a redoubtable in teak (s)/WO (s), with the port boni of my last redoubtable: (actually my last redoubtable only got gunnery 2 and mast and rig 2, so let's take another example) The redoubtable gets S3, H2, G2,C2 and mast and rig 2, I think most can agree that it's a meh drop but reasonable in so far the RNG is reasonable.. Now the redoubtable has improved armor (5cm on the sides), slightly improved hp (2300 on the sides), and reloads 2.5% slower, has 2.5% less penetration, 2,5% worse aim. This imo is reasonably balanced and have in mind will u that it is possible to craft the Bellona in seasoned woods wich markedly removes the advantages of the redoubtable except the hp advantage. To state that the redoubtable is OP is simply an uninformed opinion.. I can recommend ppl use this tool for making comparisons, pls notice that the redoubtable in the tool is fixed for 32pd cannons. https://na-map.netlify.com/ Agreed. Sure, put that way the stats are somewhat comparable, and likely the determining factor would be player skill. Remember also that not all nations have the best port bonuses for crafted ships. Also everything penetrates in close quarter combat. But you didn't factor in that the one is a DLC and can be redeemed daily. Bellonas take a permit and dubloons...I doubt anyone can build Bellonas each day for infinity. Edited February 12, 2020 by Yoha Typo 1
MrOkieDokie Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 I agree you should be able to get the permit for all the DLC ships. However I also think it would be nice if all the permit ships could be DLC. They would be imported so you couldn't trade or sell em like a normal permit ship. Let me buy em all and redeem a connie every day in hope's I roll that good one. I freakin love this game and will happily throw my wallet at it. I personally have to work everyday, so when I can play I go fight. I'm glad the trade is there and would even like to see it expanded on but I have no intrest in it. I'm here for battle but when it takes me a month to build my S wood Connie's it's hard to take big fun risks in them. If all the permit ships are DLC then buy your favorites but the free guys can still get them to; with a little more effort. I admit I have not really thought this through and I'm looking at it through the lens of my play style. I see it as an opportunity for the dev's to make a lot more money without having to add anything new. Am I crazy? This sure sounds great in my head XD 3
Licinio Chiavari Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 Just now, MrOkieDokie said: I agree you should be able to get the permit for all the DLC ships. However I also think it would be nice if all the permit ships could be DLC. They would be imported so you couldn't trade or sell em like a normal permit ship. Let me buy em all and redeem a connie every day in hope's I roll that good one. I freakin love this game and will happily throw my wallet at it. I personally have to work everyday, so when I can play I go fight. I'm glad the trade is there and would even like to see it expanded on but I have no intrest in it. I'm here for battle but when it takes me a month to build my S wood Connie's it's hard to take big fun risks in them. If all the permit ships are DLC then buy your favorites but the free guys can still get them to; with a little more effort. I admit I have not really thought this through and I'm looking at it through the lens of my play style. I see it as an opportunity for the dev's to make a lot more money without having to add anything new. Am I crazy? This sure sounds great in my head XD So DAMN SIMPLE. 1
Yoha Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said: it´ll be good for the gameplay to have all ship-rates as dlcs. more availability, more action,... i cannot see any argument against it, expcept some people fearing for their exclusive, crafted, high-bonus ships. It's called pay-to-win if those DLCs cost money.
Guest Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh33333 said: It is indeed a matter of wanting rather than needing. A lot of people will want some ships more than others and want to purchase a dlc. If the information on which ships will be behind a pay wall keeps changing or is not available it makes the choice much harder to make. For me a $30-$50 dollar dlc purchase is a significant amount. Being able to know which ships I can chose from or will be an available option soon allows me to make a much more informed purchase with no regret afterwards thinking 'why did I purchase x, I could have got this one instead'. Different, potentially more desirable ships, that aren't announced at my time of purchase dont worry me, its about choosing from what is available now or coming in the immediate future. Its the lack of clarity over current options that causes the problem. This is a different issue than the pay2win and could perhaps be solved by the roadmap, where admin could state which ships (if any) he intended to introduce to the game and which of them would be paywalled (provided that it's been decided upon). I'd still like crafters to be able to craft the DLC ships, either by giving a BP if u buy the DLC or by allowing them to be crafted for fx. an exhorbitant amount of CMs so that ppl that doesn't necessarily have the DLC to try them out..
Yoha Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh33333 said: It is indeed a matter of wanting rather than needing. A lot of people will want some ships more than others and want to purchase a dlc. If the information on which ships will be behind a pay wall keeps changing or is not available it makes the choice much harder to make. For me a $30-$50 dollar dlc purchase is a significant amount. Being able to know which ships I can chose from or will be an available option soon allows me to make a much more informed purchase with no regret afterwards thinking 'why did I purchase x, I could have got this one instead'. Different, potentially more desirable ships, that aren't announced at my time of purchase dont worry me, its about choosing from what is available now or coming in the immediate future. Its the lack of clarity over current options that causes the problem. I bet most people who purchased the Leopard wish they had waited.
Guest Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 Just now, Yoha said: It's called pay-to-win if those DLCs cost money. No, it's called monetization. The requirement for a pay2win is that u can get something that is OP compared to other similar items by locking them behind pay2win. Any1 claiming the current DLC ships are pay2win is simply not very good at math. Again I can recommend Felix' map where ships can be compared. 6 minutes ago, MrOkieDokie said: I agree you should be able to get the permit for all the DLC ships. However I also think it would be nice if all the permit ships could be DLC. They would be imported so you couldn't trade or sell em like a normal permit ship. Let me buy em all and redeem a connie every day in hope's I roll that good one. I freakin love this game and will happily throw my wallet at it. I personally have to work everyday, so when I can play I go fight. I'm glad the trade is there and would even like to see it expanded on but I have no intrest in it. I'm here for battle but when it takes me a month to build my S wood Connie's it's hard to take big fun risks in them. If all the permit ships are DLC then buy your favorites but the free guys can still get them to; with a little more effort. I admit I have not really thought this through and I'm looking at it through the lens of my play style. I see it as an opportunity for the dev's to make a lot more money without having to add anything new. Am I crazy? This sure sounds great in my head XD ^this OMG I'd buy the endymion so hard that I'd prob soil myself and my wallet.....
Yoha Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Lars Kjaer said: No, it's called monetization. The requirement for a pay2win is that u can get something that is OP compared to other similar items by locking them behind pay2win. Any1 claiming the current DLC ships are pay2win is simply not very good at math. Again I can recommend Felix' map where ships can be compared. ^this OMG I'd buy the endymion so hard that I'd prob soil myself and my wallet..... The only 3rd rate a player can probably replace every day is the Wasa. DLC ships can be replaced every 24 hours. The Redoubtable is far superior to the Wasa in almost every way. That's blatantly P2W, even though the people with the DLC will say otherwise. 1
Louis Garneray Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 40 minutes ago, Mouth of Sauron said: You were gone well before the seasoned woods entered the game. nope... I stopped playing after the wood arrived, my clan stopped being active in RvR [but I was still playing even after that] when it became obvious that RvR wasn't an option during our prime time due to a lack of enemy willing to fight but that's another story...
Malcolm3 Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hethwill said: Problem with NA as simulation wargame is that we don't have proper supply system, as all supply is hauling resources for shipbuilding and repairs to the frontline. But instead of introducing such system that would enable proper commerce raiding and allow low level players participate in RVR, devs went an easy way - just DLC of heavy ships. 8 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said: No, it's called monetization. The requirement for a pay2win is that u can get something that is OP compared to other similar items by locking them behind pay2win. Any1 claiming the current DLC ships are pay2win is simply not very good at math. Again I can recommend Felix' map where ships can be compared. Basically it's Pay to Play, as without DLC you are not competivie in heavy ships actions Edited February 12, 2020 by Malcolm3 1
Angus MacDuff Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Malcolm3 said: Basically it's Pay to Play Lol, you say that like it's a bad thing. We all have to pay somehow if we want to play a game we enjoy. Different games have different ways to do it. 3
van Veen Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 I'd rather prefer to buy permits for rare ships. These ships still need to be crafted and the DLC is not permanent. So after the permit is used and you want another ship of that type, you need to buy the permit again or just wait for the RNG luck. The good thing is: constant revenue for GL instead of having the pressure to throw in a new ridiculously OP ship every other month to get some cash. No idea, why DLC were constructed as pay once - use infinitely including ship notes. This bypasses the whole crafting econ which is a vital part of the game. 3
Dark123 Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 9 hours ago, admin said: Permits have zero correlation with online of the game. No. But there are other opinions on this subject of course. Some people disagree with the implementation, some people just hate DLC because its fashionable to hate DLC. Those people were complaining about Hercules when there were stronger ships than Herc, then they complained about 5th rates, when there were stronger ships than 5th rates, and this circle goes on. Suddenly Hercules is no longer p2w, but the new new thing is. We tried to reason with them as we valued all opinions. But as you probably found in modern world and polarized politics it seems people don't want to listen to arguments of the opposite side. Some of them even complained to Steam about Rattvisan being a 4th rate even sent Valve screenshots from threedecks, some sent lies to youtubers to catch attention (like claiming that we dont allow ANY topics to be started on Steam forums) Ships are not P2Win because they dont guarantee the win and they always have better alternative in game. There are other opinions of course but there are other opinions on everything. We cant get distracted by them, and recommend you stop getting distracted by it. I am not sure why this conversation even started, as we already mentioned couple of months before. First rate Imported ship is coming! It will be an old style HMS Victory with proper bow figure and stern balconies that will Bring more PVP Bring more RVR Fund new ships and new content. And save time for people who have kids and families And it will win against snows, frigates, 3rd rates and 140 gun santisimas And it will sink to snows, frigates, 3rd rates and stronger ships. And it will be beautiful. Diana dlc please 1
Angus MacDuff Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 1 minute ago, van Veen said: I'd rather prefer to buy permits for rare ships. These ships still need to be crafted and the DLC is not permanent. So after the permit is used and you want another ship of that type, you need to buy the permit again or just wait for the RNG luck. The good thing is: constant revenue for GL instead of having the pressure to throw in a new ridiculously OP ship every other month to get some cash. No idea, why DLC were constructed as pay once - use infinitely including ship notes. This bypasses the whole crafting econ which is a vital part of the game. That ship has sailed (). I like the idea of purchasing permits myself, but we have what we have now. One advantage of the DLCs is that there is much less fear of loss and subsequently far more ships in OW. Heck, my first choice would have been paying a subscription and no DLCs, plus the more complex crafting that we got rid of. Population is better than I've ever seen it, so.... 2
van Veen Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said: That ship has sailed (). I like the idea of purchasing permits myself, but we have what we have now. One advantage of the DLCs is that there is much less fear of loss and subsequently far more ships in OW. Heck, my first choice would have been paying a subscription and no DLCs, plus the more complex crafting that we got rid of. Population is better than I've ever seen it, so.... Not sure. GL could still make new DLCs selling rare permits. These could coexist with the DLCs currently in game.
Malcolm3 Posted February 12, 2020 Posted February 12, 2020 22 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said: Lol, you say that like it's a bad thing. We all have to pay somehow if we want to play a game we enjoy. Different games have different ways to do it. Yes, Iknow that they need money for servers etc. But they chose the wrong way from the beginning. They can get money from DLC for them only once, so for financing the game they will need more and more DLC. In the end we will have half of the ships as DLC and half of the rest behind permits. Better if they were selling some consumable items (aforementioned permits) to have steady cashflow and cosmetics. 13 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said: Population is better than I've ever seen it, so.... That's mainly because of trade patch in December 2
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