Implac vs redout

[Ponk]

For being a crafted permit ship that cost 7500 dubs, the Implacable seems abit overpriced when you can get the Redoubt with pretty much better stats once everyday.

You should consider removing the permit atleast or make it available in the Admirality for some cm's, otherwise it's a very redundant ship.

[Liq]

Seasoned

[z4ys]

10 minutes ago, Ponk said:

You should consider removing the permit atleast or make it available in the Admirality for some cm's, otherwise it's a very redundant ship.

 

Except you dont want to pay real money

[ashley]

You need to compare an unseasoned Redoubtable against an unseasoned Implacable.

 

Of course a seasoned ship is gonna have better stats than an unseasoned ship. Bad comparison.

Edited January 31, 2020 by ashley

[Ponk]

Just now, ashley said:

You need to compare an unseasoned Redoubtable against an unseasoned Implacable.

 

Of course a seasoned ship is gonna have better stats than an unseasoned ship. Bad comparison.

Why is it a bad comparison, who would ever redeem a ship not seasoned

 

[ashley]

Its a bad comparison because the ships have different woods. You can't say that one ship has better stats than another when you are giving one of them a better wood than the other.

[erelkivtuadrater]

10 minutes ago, Ponk said:

Why is it a bad comparison, who would ever redeem a ship not seasoned

 

well who would ever build a non seasoned implacable? yes it takes more time to get it seasoned, but in a while we will see people stacking up permits same as with christians that are seasoned

Edited January 31, 2020 by erelkivtuadrater

[Angus MacDuff]

9 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

well who would ever build a non seasoned implacable? yes it takes more time to get it seasoned, but in a while we will see people stacking up permits same as with christians that are seasoned

Someone who doesn't have seasoned wood from farming it from Redoubtables….

[Ponk]

15 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

well who would ever build a non seasoned implacable? yes it takes more time to get it seasoned, but in a while we will see people stacking up permits same as with christians that are seasoned

Sure who would ever build a ship in a port that's not 55 point either

[ashley]

8 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Someone who doesn't have seasoned wood from farming it from Redoubtables….

It doesn't matter whether someone builds something or redeems it with seasoned wood or non seasoned wood.

 

What matters here is Ponk has tried to compare a seasoned ship against a non seasoned ship. The seasoned ship is always going to be stronger making the comparison useless. What needs to happen is to compare the Redoubtable and Implacable both with seasoned OR unseasoned woods, both being the key word here.

Edited January 31, 2020 by ashley

[erelkivtuadrater]

6 minutes ago, ashley said:

It doesn't matter whether someone builds something or redeems it with seasoned wood or non seasoned wood.

 

What matters here is Ponk has tried to compare a seasoned ship against a non seasoned ship. The seasoned ship is always going to be stronger making the comparison useless. What needs to happen is to compare the Redoubtable and Implacable both with seasoned OR unseasoned woods, both being the key word here.

true, its like comparing 2 similar cars to each other, who would be the more economical? the one without air in its tires or the ones with air in its tires, but cost you money to fill.

Edited January 31, 2020 by erelkivtuadrater

[ashley]

2 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

true, its like comparing 2 similar cars to each other, who would be the more economical? the one without air in its tires or the ones with air in its tires.

 

Exactly this, like comparing the bottom end spec of a Ferrari to the top end spec then complaining that the bottom end has less stuff on it.

Edited January 31, 2020 by ashley

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, Ponk said:

Why is it a bad comparison, who would ever redeem a ship not seasoned

 

Who would ever craft an implaccable without seasoned?

[OjK]

4 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Who would ever craft an implaccable without seasoned?

Somehow, You forgot that fixed Port Bonuses are not here?
How about You add this Sailing 4, Crew 4 etc to Your Implacable?

Troll

 

[Galvez88]

8 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

¿Quién podría crear un implacable sin sazonar?

who does not have seasoned wood ... not everyone has the possibility to create ships with special woods

[Ponk]

31 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Who would ever craft an implaccable without seasoned?

Me since I have no real way of getting it.

And even if I did get some comparisions with the same wood the port bonuses would be completely diffrent soo that comparison would fail aswell. So thats stuff you could target in that case aswell.

The only thing I have been saying is that the price of getting something is abit high in comparision to something that is bought with cash.

And why would you put a rng block on something when you can have pretty much the same thing everyday, if you pay for it

Edited January 31, 2020 by Ponk

[Ponk]

1 hour ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

yes it takes more time to get it seasoned, but in a while we will see people stacking up permits same as with christians that are seasoned

If the christian had a dlc sistership, I would doubt any would spend hard earned s-wood on it 

[Molder169]

base stats on the Imp are better than the redoubt. Everything else is all about how you build it.

[Ponk]

1 hour ago, Molder169 said:

base stats on the Imp are better than the redoubt. Everything else is all about how you build it.

I know it is, the point is that we have two ships of the same class, one dlc and one crafted. That are way similar stat wise, but not "effort" wise.

We then also have two more ship's of the same class, Rättvisan and Kronprins Gustaf Adolf(Wasa class) even the most pimped out Rättvisan wouldn't beat the stats of a basic built Gustaf Adolf.

Same class, diffrent stats making them unique.

While the uniqueness with the Redoutable and Implacable seems too be more with it's stern visual attractivness.

Those extra 2 + 6 guns on the Implacable seems abit strange to justifiy the cost of building one (permit hunting)  

Edited January 31, 2020 by Ponk

[ashley]

11 minutes ago, Ponk said:

We then also have two more ship's of the same class, Rättvisan and Kronprins Gustaf Adolf(Wasa class) even the most pimped out Rättvisan wouldn't beat the stats of a basic built Gustaf Adolf.

 

 

But the Wasa's although the same class, were built differently, they have heavy and light versions so you can't compare Rattvisan and Adolf, one was heavy and one was light.

Implacable and Redoubtable were built to the exact same specifications, unlike the Wasa class.

[Serk]

Would have been better to keep the DLC redoutable with 36 pdrs + 18 pdrs guns while add the 36pdrs + 24 pdrs guns as the hvy variant of téméraires classe as the crafted version of the ship. 
 

Difference would be similar to ingame 3rd rate vs Bellona. 
 

This way, maybe Bellona would not be relegated to a NPC ship neither

Edited January 31, 2020 by Serk

[Ponk]

1 hour ago, ashley said:

 

But the Wasa's although the same class, were built differently, they have heavy and light versions so you can't compare Rattvisan and Adolf, one was heavy and one was light.

I am really curious of your source for that.

Cause you are telling me that a ship builder that was partly made famous for his use of prefabrication methods to build 20 ships in three years, where the Kronprins is the first out of the 10 SOL's, the Rättvisan is nr 4, and where every online source, plus the swedish archives write that both ships have identical dimensions(except the russian ones with say Rättvisan is 10cm longer,  40cm wider, and 45cm less depth) decided to create diffrent builds of the same design

Edited January 31, 2020 by Ponk

[Teutonic]

40 minutes ago, Serk said:

Would have been better to keep the DLC redoutable with 36 pdrs + 18 pdrs guns while add the 36pdrs + 24 pdrs guns as the hvy variant of téméraires classe as the crafted version of the ship. 
 

Difference would be similar to ingame 3rd rate vs Bellona. 
 

This way, maybe Bellona would not be relagated to a NPC ship neither

the 3rd rate was already relegated to NPC status before these new ships came in :P, the fact that the Bellona is now is quite hilarious.

[ashley]

3 hours ago, Ponk said:

I am really curious of your source for that.

Cause you are telling me that a ship builder that was partly made famous for his use of prefabrication methods to build 20 ships in three years, where the Kronprins is the first out of the 10 SOL's, the Rättvisan is nr 4, and where every online source, plus the swedish archives write that both ships have identical dimensions(except the russian ones with say Rättvisan is 10cm longer,  40cm wider, and 45cm less depth) decided to create diffrent builds of the same design

 

Admin speaks here about the difference in the Wasa class and the other names they were thinking of giving to the Rattvisan ( e.g. Aran or Elisabet).

 

This only moves us away from the proper discussion however. As I have stated before, the comparison you gave of a seasoned Redoubtable vs an unseasoned Implacable is too biased. If you want to properly compare these two ships, they need to be built as equal as possible, either both seasoned or both unseasoned. Either one of these will give you a good comparison.

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by ashley

[Ponk]

11 minutes ago, ashley said:

 

Admin speaks here about the difference in the Wasa class and the other names they were thinking of giving to the Rattvisan ( e.g. Aran or Elisabet).

 

This only moves us away from the proper discussion however. As I have stated before, the comparison you gave of a seasoned Redoubtable vs an unseasoned Implacable is too biased. If you want to properly compare these two ships, they need to be built as equal as possible, either both seasoned or both unseasoned. Either one of these will give you a good comparison.

 

Indeed, except you wanted to pull up the diffrence of real life design, which is simply not true, Rättvisan and the Kronprins is the same design, the light build is the prototype wasa, which dosnt exist ingame, it is the devs that have made thier artistic interpertation with names and values.

So your argument that the Implacable and Redoubtable should be close in stats based on design, while it's ok for the Rättvisan vs kronprins to not be is just freakin lazy from your part.

It dosnt matter what type of wood I am comparing the ships from, the point is the rng block and resource block a person get by not spending money on a equal ship which have no real drawback from the crafted one