Redoutable better than Christian

[Farrago]

9 hours ago, rediii said:

If breaking up ships would atleast not give anything for dlc ships then fine. But as long as you get hundreds of logs every day with dlc ships it is kinda pay to win

Unless you have discovered a secret I don’t know about, my success rate of breaking down seasoned wood DLC ships where they drop seasoned woods is maybe 30-40%. 

[Carl_infar]

37 minutes ago, Farrago said:

Unless you have discovered a secret I don’t know about, my success rate of breaking down seasoned wood DLC ships where they drop seasoned woods is maybe 30-40%. 

You are the lucky one. I got the wood maybe 1nce in 10 brakeups

[jnovotny6]

On 1/31/2020 at 3:27 AM, Player RUS said:

Why do DLC ships have an advantage in building from (s) wood? While players who don't have DLC need to spend a lot of time and money to build a ship out of (s) wood? DLC ships from (s) tree are much better than normal ones and this gives them a great advantage, I think this is not correct. You need to remove the (s) tree from the DLC ships, then they will be equal.

or buy DLC

[Smoothie]

On 1/31/2020 at 11:02 PM, Carl_infar said:

I got the wood maybe 1nce in 10 brakeups

Me too. Waste of time.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Smoothie

[Yoha]

I'm seeing a lot of PBs with mostly Redos now. L'Oceans and Christian's used to be the meta.

This leads me to believe that the Redo is slightly superior to the Christian on an average BR basis.

Although, with all the gifted Implacables in the game, we will probably see those become the meta (untill they get sunk).

[Liq]

4 minutes ago, Yoha said:

I'm seeing a lot of PBs with mostly Redos now. L'Oceans and Christian's used to be the meta.

This leads me to believe that the Redo is slightly superior to the Christian on an average BR basis.

Although, with all the gifted Implacables in the game, we will probably see those become the meta (untill they get sunk).

So because people use the Redoutable in Port Battles (because they can easily get them every day) you assume they are the new meta? Yeeah no not really. It will lose to buc / christian very easily. Not very BR efficient at 550 BR, which i like. We've had a few port battles vs brits where they brought redoutable fleets - didnt stand much of a chance vs a mixed fleet of bucs and christians

[Yoha]

Just now, Liq💋 said:

So because people use the Redoutable in Port Battles (because they can easily get them every day) you assume they are the new meta? Yeeah no not really. It will lose to buc / christian very easily. Not very BR efficient at 550 BR, which i like. We've had a few port battles vs brits where they brought redoutable fleets - didnt stand much of a chance vs a mixed fleet of bucs and christians

Yeah, the Buc seems to be in the running for the PB meta (due to BR). The downside is Bucs have to be built.

[Teutonic]

3 minutes ago, Liq💋 said:

So because people use the Redoutable in Port Battles (because they can easily get them every day) you assume they are the new meta? Yeeah no not really. It will lose to buc / christian very easily. Not very BR efficient at 550 BR, which i like. We've had a few port battles vs brits where they brought redoutable fleets - didnt stand much of a chance vs a mixed fleet of bucs and christians

the continued trend of DLC ships should be that they have a "bad" BR to power ratio compared to normal crafted ships.

if it continues to be the trend, then i can better accept DLC ships as a whole.

[Smoothie]

10 hours ago, Teutonic said:

the continued trend of DLC ships should be that they have a "bad" BR to power ratio compared to normal crafted ships.

if it continues to be the trend, then i can better accept DLC ships as a whole.

Why? People paying real Money for DLCs. Why should I pay a shitload of money for penalized ships?

[Conte D. Catellani]

Technically you also pay real money for a crafted ship:

Game cost + time of your life + power line cost  + network cost

[Yoha]

On 2/13/2020 at 2:11 AM, Smoothie said:

Why? People paying real Money for DLCs. Why should I pay a shitload of money for penalized ships?

So it is pay to win. Thanks for clarifying. 

Here I thought you just bought it because it's a pretty ship, and has no advantages over crafted 3rd rates.

[GrubbyZebra]

5 hours ago, Yoha said:

So it is pay to win. Thanks for clarifying. 

Here I thought you just bought it because it's a pretty ship, and has no advantages over crafted 3rd rates.

The Redoutable is not the top ship in its class, just like none of the other DLC are the top ship in their respective classes. They are good ships, which allow players to skip some of the grind to be able to participate meaningfully in PvE, PvP, and RvR. They are pay 2 play, for sure, but not pay 2 win, as merely sailing a DLC ship does not ensure a positive outcome to a battle.

[Teutonic]

3 hours ago, GrubbyZebra said:

The Redoutable is not the top ship in its class, just like none of the other DLC are the top ship in their respective classes. They are good ships, which allow players to skip some of the grind to be able to participate meaningfully in PvE, PvP, and RvR. They are pay 2 play, for sure, but not pay 2 win, as merely sailing a DLC ship does not ensure a positive outcome to a battle.

if the implacable was not in the 3rd rate class, the redoutable would be the top of it's class.

the game has it set as a 3rd rate. Now go check on the 3rd rates in the game.

- Bellona, USS, and Connie's only strength compared to the redout is that they are faster and can run away from it.

- Implacable is basically a copy, lowers stats, but more guns for higher broadside weight. we could argue it's  "on par" to a redout.

- 3rd rate? a crap Bellona, laughable to even consider using

- Wasa? arguably cheapest of them all with some good traits.

when I look at the current 3rd rates, their stats, the possible theories of how a fight would go. the only 3rd rate that would beat a redoutable is the implacable. the redoutable CAN beat 2nd rates too.

as far as it goes, we can safely say the Redoutable IS the top of it's class. the Devs have already stated they are taking a look at bringing the other 3rd rates up to it's level.
 

[GrubbyZebra]

59 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

if the implacable was not in the 3rd rate class, the redoutable would be the top of it's class.
 

But it is in the game, specifically to provide a craftable comparable ship to the Redoutable, so this statement is meaningless. T
 

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the game has it set as a 3rd rate. Now go check on the 3rd rates in the game.

- Bellona, USS, and Connie's only strength compared to the redout is that they are faster and can run away from it.

The United States and Connie are 4th rate heavy frigates that are classed as 3rd rates in the game for reasons that remain a mystery to me. They do not belong in this discussion. 

Bellona is a true 3rd rate (74) and has a speed and maneuverability advantage on the Redoutable, at the expensive of durability and broadside weight. 

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- Implacable is basically a copy, lowers stats, but more guns for higher broadside weight. we could argue it's  "on par" to a redout.

Implacable is on par, as it was introduced to provide a craftable counterpart to the DLC Redoutable. The Implacable has more offensive capability (more guns) with slightly less HP.  Speed (.01 less and turn rate are virtually identical (.01 isn't a difference, really).  

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- 3rd rate? a crap Bellona, laughable to even consider using-

A placeholder ship that needs to be reconsidered by the developers. I don't think I've even come across one that wasn't either an NPC or captured from NPC.

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Wasa? arguably cheapest of them all with some good traits.

Wasa is a a great hunter, with it's 6 bow and 4 stern chasers. Has a 25% faster turn rate, enabling it to be a formidable opponent against a Redoutable in the hands of a skilled captain. 

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when I look at the current 3rd rates, their stats, the possible theories of how a fight would go. the only 3rd rate that would beat a redoutable is the implacable.

Redoutable can be beat by Implacable, Wasa, and Bellona without too much trouble. 

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the redoutable CAN beat 2nd rates too.

And I can beat a Pavel in an Endymion (I've done it. Was PvP, too), but does that mean the Endymion should be a 2nd rate? no. It just means that Ships in this game have their strengths and weaknesses, and the game isn't a red vs. blue, which is a good thing.

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as far as it goes, we can safely say the Redoutable IS the top of it's class. the Devs have already stated they are taking a look at bringing the other 3rd rates up to it's level.

We can safely say the Redoutable is AMONG the top of its class (it shares this title with Implacable). The devs have NOT said they are "looking at bringing the other 3rd rates up to its level", they have said they are considering if and what changes MAY BE necessary to make all of the 3rd rates better balanced. There is a distinction here that is important.

Now, all that said, I DO think the lines between 2nd-4th rates have been muddled quite a bit.

• As stated, the Super Frigates (Connie, United States, and Indefatigable) are most definitely 4th rates.
• Agamnenon really should be buffed slightly and positioned as a 3rd rate (it should not be the same class as its razeed sister ship Indefatigable)
• Redoutable, Implacabale, St. Pavel, Bucentaure, Christian and De Ruyter all have similar specs, but are split between 2nd and 3rd rates. I would argue that all these should be 2nd rates in the game.

If it were up to me (it's not), I would say just use the Battle Rating system as follows:

1. BR 700+
2. BR 550-699
3. BR 400-550
4. 4BR 271-399
5. BR 101-270 (Pandora's BR needs to be increased to 110, imo)
6. BR 46-100
7. BR 0-45

Of course, an alternative would be to take a model on the Royal Navy and use the number of guns:

1. 100+ guns
2. 82-98 guns
3. 62-80 guns
4. 50-60 guns
5. 32-48 guns
6. 20-30 guns
7. 0-20 guns

But I doubt these changes will be made by the devs.

Edited February 20, 2020 by GrubbyZebra

[Yoha]

Even the fact that this thread was originally to debate whether the Redo is on par with the Christian is evidence that the Redo/Implac is the most powerful its class. 

Sure one could say the Implac is better, but how many crafted Implacs are people really making out of S woods? I have yet to come across a permit. Fortunately the devs gifted us all a really nice one.

I have battled Redos in Wasas and Ballonas and 1 on 1 they are not too bad, but in a group fight the Redo is brutal.

[BoatyMcBoatFace]

Im just glad the wasa spam is taking a backseat for a while at least

 

#allhailthesaviorredoutableliberatofromthewasaswarm