Naval Action now Pay to win ?

[Navalus Magnus]

3 hours ago, admin said:

We will continue increasing immersion, reducing time wasting, and increasing the cost of power.

This is the perspective of a rather casual player:
As it is right now imo NA is a huge timesink - even with the support of generous clanmates (thank you all at HRE!): If I want to fight in big ships, I need to do lots of trading and grinding before I’ve established myself enough to be able to replace losses in a rather short timespan. The last patch may have eased this a bit for mid quality ships, but worsened it considerably for high quality ones.

Thus I like your first two goals!

But from my point of view it would be better to limit the use of power by rules, than to increase the cost of power:

1. If you raise the cost of power (e.g. with the seasoned woods) it ...

a) helps those which have the most power (best capability to produce the best ships in numbers) and creates an even greater imbalance between hardcore and casuals aswell as mighty and rather weak fractions

b) excludes many casuals from getting the best possible stuff in a reasonable span of time

2. If you limit power (e.g. by hardcaps for the allowed number of first rates in portbattles relative to the port br), it ...

a) won’t create that much of a gap between mighty and less powerful fractions (defending ports for example would be easier for weaker fractions than it is right now) 

b) allow everyone who wants to, to get the best possible gear without the need to turn his or her hobby into a job!

Granted, casuals probably wouldn’t be the ones who sailed first rates into portbattles, but they could afford getting the best possible ones for screening and ow fights. And believe me there are at least some guys that get a certain amount of joy out of the fact that they crafted and equipped a high quality vessel. And they are not only those which sit on the docks. They want to fight, but first they want to build up, unlock slots ... but finally they will be pvp content for others, ...

if they won‘t be discouraged by the demands of the game!

Edited December 2, 2019 by Navalus Magnus

[huliotkd]

2 hours ago, admin said:

Promising to not wipe on launch was the stupidest idea we ever promised. Every.. Single.. MMO wipes on launch and multiple times in between. 

your stupid idea is to not wipe now on this new patch of seasoned woods.  a patch like this that change everything need a ship wipe to put all the players (vet and new one) on the same starting situation: no ship, start now and use new patch.

your stupid idea is also to not considering the point of view of a new casual player: he has 5 building slot and bought the game to use (use= sailing the ship to fight and be competitive in a MMO PVP game) every ship and he wont because to craft one of them alone, he simply cant...he needs to be in a clan, for port bonus, he needs more than 5 building for resources, guns, mods and shipbuilding, he needs alt account for more labour hours.

so, to play the game as it is now as a single new player, you need:

- copy of the game

- admiralty or ALT

- forged papers for saving your account experience

those 3 thing are the minimum requirements to play the game in all its features.  if you don't buy those 3 thing you cannot play all the game features.

this is a stupid idea or a misleading advertising.

so something went wrong @admin, isn't it?

[Raekur]

2 hours ago, Earl of Grey said:

My fear ist, that If you wait now many people will buy DLC-Ships only to break up the ships every day. If you take this possibility then from the DLC-ships you will produce the next rage storm ... 

I got yesterday 31 Teak (s) logs from breaking up my requin ...

Not that I dont believe you but I broke up 4 ships all Teak / Teak and what I got was as followed. 

Hercules - 2 coal and 5 fir logs

Hermione - 8 Iron and 1 Lignum Vitae log

Hermione - 9 Iron and 6 fir logs

Pandora - 8 Teak logs and 50 provisions.

None of the ships spawned with seasoned wood and out of the 4 ships broken down in an attempt to get Teak I received 8.

So based on my findings, I doubt that DLC ships will be the next rage storm that will be supplying massive amounts of building materials to anyone.

[Gringo69rus]

I want to ask a question to the community and not to the developers - you want to receive money for their work, why developers can not do this? how is their work worse than yours? they also have families and they need to be fed and paid bills

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google translate

[Conte D. Catellani]

3 hours ago, Earl of Grey said:

 

I got yesterday 31 Teak (s) logs from breaking up my requin ...

You are very lucky

I made less than a hour ago  a Le Requin teak (s)/ teak (s) and after a couple of second i destroyed it: just catch: 1 x lignum vitae 1x Oak

i think that is pretty random what you can take from destroying a ship

Edited December 2, 2019 by Conte D. Catellani

[Gringo69rus]

6 minutes ago, Bryan Von Gyldenloeve said:

Никто ничего не говорит о том, что им не должны платить. По крайней мере, я не вижу никого, кто бы заявлял, что это должна быть бесплатная игра. Так что я не понимаю, что вы хотите сказать. Пожалуйста, скажи мне.

То, что я вижу, - это споры о том, как улучшить игру. Я верю, что лучшая возможная игра также даст лучшую выплату разработчикам. Вы не согласны с этим?

I have everything for DLS except Hermione and Leopard and you know I rarely go on these ships and I don’t think that it will change if a new rank 3 is introduced. here dls galleon i would buy and would be glad to buy a trader dls ship. As one of those involved in port battles and in the Gank, I’ll tell you that no fleet leader will take a ship with dubious bonuses to a battle. I never saw your cause of tears.

[Gringo69rus]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

сбалансировать создание кораблей Superwood с кораблями Superwood DLC, и это не составит никакой проблемы.

На данный момент баланс с супердеревянными кораблями отключен по сравнению с супердеревянными кораблями. Остальное в порядке.

I can sell if you need, and yesterday I already killed 1 ship from a super tree. The problem for an organized clan in the dorbych of a new tree is not worth it

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

3 hours ago, Earl of Grey said:

My fear ist, that If you wait now many people will buy DLC-Ships only to break up the ships every day. If you take this possibility then from the DLC-ships you will produce the next rage storm ... 

I got yesterday 31 Teak (s) logs from breaking up my requin ...

Pure random luck. You cannot rely on seasoned wood income from breaking DLC ships every day, you may as well just get hemp, iron, coal, whatever...

So it takes even much longer than he estimated (half year) to collect seasoned woods for his ship exclusively by breaking up DLCs. You will have to include other sources, Privateer fleets most likely.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Cetric de Cornusiac

[Durin]

12 hours ago, admin said:

Most new ships will be DLC. Most new features will focus on increase of immersion

I just want to mention here, that it is not at all immersive if you can capture anything from NPC, even first rates, but you can not capture a Rättvisan for example  from a player in a pvp game, just because its a DLC. I know there are currently ways to abuse it if it would be possible... but still... The reward for sinking enemy players is allmost zero if you dont need the xp anymore, capturing vessels is the only way to make pvp profitable. If you continue to add more and more DLC ships, it would mean that sooner or later, player ships you are allowed to capture will be very rare.

[SirAlatriste]

I've never imagine you were gonna make a 3rd rate DLC (Redoutable). It will have a lot of impact.

Why not DLC for Diana or Santa Cecilia or an other similar ship?

 

[Conte D. Catellani]

it will not be tomorrow but maybe in a year? so big faction have time to craft and build seasoned woods.

I used a teak s/ wo s Ratt against a npc victory..guess what i get sunk !! 😂

[Navalus Magnus]

38 minutes ago, rediii said:

The rest is okay.

Says a guy who is a hardcore player with good connections to traders and shipbuilders, who is able to focus on pvp and rvr almost entirely!?

[Earl of Grey]

28 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Pure random luck. You cannot rely on seasoned wood income from breaking DLC ships every day, you may as well just geht hemp, iron, coal, whatever...

So it takes even much longer than he estimated (half year) to collect seasoned woods for his ship exclusively by breaking up DLCs. You will have to include other sources, Privateer fleets most likely.

Sure it was a Lucky one, i got only oak Wood Out of my Pandora and 5 superwood logs from my herc. But i red in my nation discord that another one got Out 200 logs of all his dlc ships ... so even average Wood drop from all dlc-ships is 100 logs you have twice the amount you can craft with your 3000 LHs ... and for free ...

How much Wood will a 3rd rate drop? 

 

And to all who say balance is ok: i bet we will see Rättvisan only PB-Fleets soon ... I Hope im wrong ...

[Potemkin]

I cant believe i read this trail o' tears all the way to page 4. 

[Potemkin]

7 minutes ago, Bryan Von Gyldenloeve said:

You have no life?

At 5:49 AM after a 12 hour night shift?  Circumstantially correct. How does your statement reflect upon the Karens who have been collectively losing their minds here over every change for the last 4 years and yet still log in to 5+ alt accounts plus their main every day? 

Edited December 2, 2019 by Potemkin

[Potemkin]

14 hours ago, admin said:

 

This is what will happen

• New content expansions (like new campaigns like operations in CS, or new professions or maps) 

.... new maps should not be paid dlc. Id rather pay for ships/cosmetics in order to make (potential) new maps free for everyone. Defeats the purpose if only 10% of the pop has access to a new map. -IMHO-

[Potemkin]

.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Potemkin

[Navalus Magnus]

1 hour ago, rediii said:

Seasoned woods are pve content and you should know how many PvE HAVOC normally does. (30 kills or what was it yesterday?)

All good and fine, but the seasoned wood stuff like it is now means another grind!

... which is doable if you’re a hardcore player with the help of others, but a pain in the ass, if you’re a casual, don‘t you think!?

And the question is: Was / is this necessary? Wouldn’t there be a better way?

Edited December 2, 2019 by Navalus Magnus

[Hullabaloo]

If you have a load of alts and are in a large clan you get to have the best mods, (seasoned) woods, books, Port Bonuses and gold/purple ships pretty much as standard. All these bonuses stacked together are starting to confer a huge advantage.

Port Bonuses are the worst of these mechanics: This game is already dominated by players that simply have loads of alts (have spent a lot of real $) and the PB system confers even more power to them as you are forced to join their crap clans and pander to their ridiculous egos just to retain the ability to craft decent ships. Many imagine themselves as being a part of some kind of elite but in reality are rather average captains and were it not for these huge advantages would be found out.

I would like to see more content added that confers difference and diversity rather than always benefit. It's been said many times before, all bonuses should have penalties (like the woods do in the main). This would make for more interesting specialised builds rather than the perpetual arms race towards ever more unbalanced super ships.

You should purchase DLC to have more options, different (types of) ships to sail, ability to specialise more and try different play styles, NOT just to gain a clear advantage over your fellow players.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Hullabaloo

[Angus MacDuff]

5 hours ago, Macjimm said:

The admin has stated that seasoned wood will not be difficult to obtain.  Let's give it a chance.  If seasoned wood is easy to get then it may not matter if players are breaking up ships, or using 's' wood DLC ships.  Perhaps we are raging and complaining about seasoned wood today, but it will be so easy to obtain that it really won't be a big deal.   No one seems to care anymore if it costs a 5-10 doubloons to use the Outpost transporter.

This is what I am hoping.  As a solo(mostly) player, it's looking right now that the Seasoning Shed permit is very difficult for me.  I can't fight a privateer fleet by myself.  If I can buy it, then all good. 

@admin, I've agreed with you on most occasions and you've proved yourself right another few times when I thought you were dead wrong (doubloon TP costs!).  One thing that does concern me is the difficulty and roadblocks that are put in place against the solo/casual/small clan crew.  I know the basic game design is geared towards the clan based, social crowd, but why exclude the little guy?  If the only way to get a Shed permit is to defeat a Privateer fleet, why not make various sizes of privateer fleets, so that one or two (average ) players can take it on?  Or another alternative?  I think that we have lost a lot of players who didn't like the larger grouping and couldn't achieve success as a small unit. 

I saw a population jump this weekend and I suspect it is because of the announced improvement to trading.  These are probably  some of the people who would have left when trading went south.  Well done on that.

[Archaos]

9 hours ago, Raekur said:

I am not sure how DLC ships being created with seasoned wood is such a game breaker. Every time I have broken up a ship i get maybe at most 5 pieces of wood. Considering the amount of wood needed to craft a 1st rate it would take months to gather the wood needed. Even a Victory needs 2537 wood for the hull, so with 5 DLC ships in game currently yielding on average 3 pieces of wood each (15) it would take you 157 days to get the wood at minimum IF the luck gods were on your side giving you the exact same wood for each ship every day. Dont really see that as game breaking.

I think you have been unlucky then as each day I have managed to get around 100 seasoned logs from breaking up all my DLC and I do not own the Leopard. Its RNG but I have had 30 logs just from breaking up a Pandora.

[Earl of Grey]

24 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

This is what I am hoping.  As a solo(mostly) player, it's looking right now that the Seasoning Shed permit is very difficult for me.  I can't fight a privateer fleet by myself.  If I can buy it, then all good. 

@admin, I've agreed with you on most occasions and you've proved yourself right another few times when I thought you were dead wrong (doubloon TP costs!).  One thing that does concern me is the difficulty and roadblocks that are put in place against the solo/casual/small clan crew.  I know the basic game design is geared towards the clan based, social crowd, but why exclude the little guy?  If the only way to get a Shed permit is to defeat a Privateer fleet, why not make various sizes of privateer fleets, so that one or two (average ) players can take it on?  Or another alternative?  I think that we have lost a lot of players who didn't like the larger grouping and couldn't achieve success as a small unit. 

I saw a population jump this weekend and I suspect it is because of the announced improvement to trading.  These are probably  some of the people who would have left when trading went south.  Well done on that.

1. Dont worry, the shed permit will soon something like the Art-of-Shiphandling-Blueprint ... everyone will have one and people will scrap them when they drop  ... you need to kill many Privateer fleets to get the wood for one 1st rate but everyone only needs one blueprint for the shed and only one for every Wood Type ...

2. We dont know why the Population jumped, but maybe its just because of the Steam Sale ... 

[Archaos]

The problem I see with releasing DLC ships as a way to monetize the game is that it has to lead to power creep where each new DLC ship has to be better or fill some gap that previous ships did not, otherwise there is no reason to buy them. At the moment there is still the possibility to release 3rd, 2nd and 1st rates as DLC, but once this is done what next? Do you then release another 3rd rate? Why would I buy it unless it is better than the previous one in some way? If it is better then the previous one now becomes obsolete.

Whats the game going to look like to a new player wanting to pick up the game when the game has a base price and 10+ DLC's.

[Navalus Magnus]

21 minutes ago, Archaos said:

The problem I see with releasing DLC ships as a way to monetize the game is that it has to lead to power creep where each new DLC ship has to be better or fill some gap that previous ships did not, otherwise there is no reason to buy them. At the moment there is still the possibility to release 3rd, 2nd and 1st rates as DLC, but once this is done what next? Do you then release another 3rd rate? Why would I buy it unless it is better than the previous one in some way? If it is better then the previous one now becomes obsolete.

Whats the game going to look like to a new player wanting to pick up the game when the game has a base price and 10+ DLC's.

Some collect every single ship - see WoWS!

Some buy dlc ships because they are more beautiful than others.

And Devs could create ships of the same rate for different roles like tank, damage dealer, ... this way at least some players would buy all of them too.

[Navalus Magnus]

6 minutes ago, rediii said:

Its just something that gets implemented for ppl that have a lot of time to get more goals into the game to achieve.

And what will they add if most of these people have achieved to get enough 1st rates with seasoned woods?

Will they add iron clad ships or spaceships with laser guns???

Imo this way of creating more content - that is: making the former best inferior, - is poor game design!

@admin No offense intended!

Edited December 2, 2019 by Navalus Magnus