Naval Action now Pay to win ?

[Malcolm3]

24 minutes ago, admin said:

Redoutable will be an imported ship. Its slightly stronger classmate Implacable ( Duguay-Trouin) will be a crafteable free 3rd rate.

So the one of the most numerous Ship-of-the-Line classes will be DLC...

[Malcolm3]

And about lineships

Here -

And a bit more in the same topic

And the final pics, I hope. Same topic

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by Malcolm3

[AeRoTR]

I am having hard time enjoying the game, lots of limitations were already restricting my enjoyment of the game.

 I need to produce teak, iron etc. and I do not have enough outposts or building slots. I used to have no problem in the past, when I had enough iron I used to shot down my iron farm, close that port so I can use another port for my pvp. Now the building prices are insane, I can not close my buildings and my ports that easy, I am stucked in few areas for pvp, population and some nations are dying. Sometimes I wonder around, and log off.

My friends most of them who invest serious time in this game have alt accounts. So they put their production buildings and production ports on alt accounts, store many ships there. I feel like I am playing the basic addition, restricted addition of the game.

I owned all dlc except 3 ( profolic, flags, hermione), still I am playing the restricted addition compared to my friends with alts. I do not buy flags cause I am a bit angry while I can buy 10 times more dlc, or many alt accounts. I find alt account to be unfair, stupid, but not buying one may be makes me stupid because I invest so much time in this game.

Now there is the new building, new big time labour hour requirements. I will be even more restricted in this game.

@admin‌‌‌ should I buy more accounts to enjoy your game? and yes I can buy many so I can have many pvp ports, lots of resource, lots of dock space. So my main account becomes such poweful, isn’t it the definition of PAY2WIN? Tell me I am stupid, I should buy more accounts...tell me to accept it is what it is. I never cheated or exploited in games, may be it is time to make a decision.

1. Suffer

2. Go dark side

3. Just quit

help me decide.

[OjK]

2 hours ago, admin said:

• • We no longer will waste time arguing. Customers are always right and will vote for the game by their feet or their wallets

Small example:

When a drug dealer says that his clients are "voting" with their money, makes the drug right?

Those addicts, who'll buy every other DLC released (I used to belong to that group, thank god I kinda opened my eyes at Rattv) are considered worth feedback, all those who say "This stuff is wrong, and breaks the game for all the clean ones" is worthless?

 

I did tons of long, very constructive and detailed feedback, proposals suggestions.
But the only response I'm getting from You guys, is when I type something angry, when I see yet again that You destroy step by step, my probably most favourite game of my life.

[admin]

46 minutes ago, Malcolm3 said:

I did.

Here -

And here -

 

Does it mean these statements cancel each other?
Anyways, we already said which version we consider canon. Redoutable will be an imported ship. 

[Mad Dog Morgan]

22 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

1. Suffer

2. Go dark side

3. Just quit

help me decide.

4. Just sail cheap 6th rates and forget about the rest of the game. 

Then 100% of your time is raiding and nothing else.

Yarr!

 

[admin]

54 minutes ago, Malcolm3 said:

And about lineships

This needs to be explained to fans, critics and customers. 
The problem with Wasa Class is in the gradual discovery of the information and naming that became impossible to change, over time

• Wasa class had several subclasses (ligher and heavier)
• When it won in customer polls we found the best references and built it.
• The best reference was Chronprins Gustav Adolf. This was also a reason of its OP status initially - Gustav adolf was a heavy 3rd rate, wasa was light almost a 4th rate. It was given stats of Gustav Adolf but was called wasa, this period is known as wasa ganking times as it hard 6 bow guns.
• Many complained and complained and we nerfed it to 4th rate status , buffing it later. 
• Later we decided to bring back real light Wasa class and have made 2 hulls internally (Aran and Wasa/Elisabet Charlotta)
• But knowing how names stick we considered it impossible to do the renaming (we have another ship like this Snow - which is in reality extremely famous HMS Ontario)
  • As a result we decided to keep Wasa class name for Gustav Adolf
  • We also considered names Aran and Elisabet bad for marketing and picked Rattvisan as best because it sounds cool and is great for European buyers (russia had lots of Rattvisans in fleets too)
• So the screen you linked is irrelevant. We give names and stats, and sometimes the sequence of events creates the names we cannot change

Wasa class info
 

Wasa class

• Wasa (60), 1778. BU 1827.
• Hedvig Elisabet Charlotta (60), c. 1781. Captured by Russia at the Battle of Vyborg Bay, 3 July 1790.

Kronprins Gustaf Adolph class (improved Wasa class),

• Kronprins Gustaf Adolph (62), 1782. Captured by Russia at the Battle of Hogland, 17 July 1788, and renamed Prints Gustav, lost at sea 1797.
• Fadnerslandet (62), 1783. BU 1864.
• Ömheten (62), 1783. Captured by Russia at the Battle of Vyborg Bay, 3 July 1790.
• Rättvisan (62), 1783. Captured by Russia at the Battle of Vyborg Bay, 3 July 1790, captured by Britain ~1808.
• Dygd (62), 1784. Internal explosion and fire 1793.
• Äran (62), 1784. Rebuilt as frigate Göteborg 1839, sold 1874.
• Forsiktigheten (62), 1784. BU 1825.
• Dristigheten (62), 1785. BU 1869.
• Manligheten (62), 1785. BU 1864.
• Tapperheten (62), 1785. To Gran Colombia as Bolivar 1825, sold at auction September 1826, to Portugal by 1848.

• Wladislaff (74), ex-Russian Vladislav, captured 17 July 1788. Discarded 1819?
• Louisa Ulrika (72), c. 1789. Ex-East Indiaman. Captured by Russia at the Battle of Vyborg Bay, 3 July 1790.
• Konung Gustaf IV (74), 1799. Renamed Gustaf den Store 1809, renamed Försiktigheten 1825.
• Carl XIII (84), c. 1819.
• Karl XIV Johan (84), 1824. Rearmed to 68.
• Prins Oscar (76), c. 1830.
• Gustav den Store (76), c. 1832.
• Stockholm (66), 1856.

 

 

This is the rattvisan story. We know some people will still try to find evil plans in Wasa/Gustav Adolf/Rattvisan/Aran/Charlotta forum storms, but we now do not care.

[Serk]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Redoutable will be an imported ship.

This is heartbreaking😭. I could live with the Wrecker or Montanes as DLC, but not the most built 3rd rate lineship. It should be available to all. Please reconsider this. 

Edited December 1, 2019 by Serk

[Malcolm3]

1 minute ago, admin said:

So the screen you linked is irrelevant. We give names and stats, and sometimes the sequence of events creates the names we cannot change

Actually that screen was not about Wasa. It was about that quotes

Quote

Thats why lineships and other amazing powerful vessels wont ever be premium

Quote

sorry to pop you bubble but we never considered 4th rates lineships. In fact the expclicit promise was to not have premium 3rd rates and above.

 

17 minutes ago, admin said:

Does it mean these statements cancel each other?
Anyways, we already said which version we consider canon. Redoutable will be an imported ship. 

That's just collection of your statement in which you tried to convince people that there will be no Ship-of-the-Line DLC.

I understand the need for money to pay for servers etc, but your way to get them and your way to communicate make people furious and destroy the game they think they bought once.

[EliotXII]

4 hours ago, Earl of Grey said:

Did we cross the border and have now really pay to win? The new seasoned woods are that expensive, you need to invest the labor hours of at least 2 weeks and more than 2 million reals (just a very raw calculation) in building an Agamemnon from the new seasoned woods.

With dlc you get the new woods once a day ... the dlc ships with the new woods are far better than before ... and because of the expensiveness of the new woods you get now really superships for you real money ....

Then there is the fact that many just redeeem the ships to break them up and get some logs of the new woods ...

I think finally now they are seeing what they really wanted when they took profit from the delivery missions.

[Macjimm]

1 hour ago, admin said:

As i said above. Getting seasoned wood is not hard - you have not figured it the method just yet, but i know you will. 

 

2 hours ago, Suppenkelle said:

I remember that and I did not like the shouting but I could understand it in a way. When Doubloons were introduced they were exchanged at 1:1 with PvP marks which were very valuable before. Many of the players I knew had some 50 PvP marks after collecting for weeks. So, of course many were shocked at the prospect of paying 10 Doubloons per teleport. I considerably relaxed once you announced that you were aiming at an exchange rate of 1:8 with reals.

It's just an idea but maybe giving this goal to the community right from the start could have helped to keep people calm.

 

2 hours ago, admin said:

Correct. People (including me) do not post anything of value when they are angry. We posted sometimes when we were angry - it did not lead to anything good. 
Same with users. Remember the outrage on the cost of the transport (teleport) of 10 doubloons?  Outraged players literally shouted that this teleport fee is going to kill the game, some said we are adding it to sell doubloon DLC.  Did we waste time responding to them and conversing in that topic trying to calm angry people ? Yes. We wasted a lot of time. 
We no longer converse with outraged trolls and do not respond angry rants. Automated rules take care of them making forum nicer, kinder, friendlier place.

These are really infomative statements.  I agree with admin that there has been alot of ranting, about how horrible some changes would effect us, BEFORE the change was given a chance.

Perhaps it would be wise to try out any new mechanic (for a decent amount of time) before wailing about the game's impending doom.  Some changes take a while to brew and settle in, especially when the game economy is involved.

The Doubloon transporter is a great example.  Today no one is complaining that the cost of teleporting between Outposts is killing the game.  They can be bought in most ports.  They are almost free when delivering passengers.  One passenger (or 800 Doubloons) buys alot of outpost visits.

Admin says that getting Seasoned Wood will not be hard.  It is darn easy to get Doubloons.

[BuckleUpBones]

5 hours ago, Macjimm said:

The Doubloon transporter is a great example.  Today no one is complaining that the cost of teleporting between Outposts is killing the game

That’s unfounded, no one knew that the economy was going to be inflated so much, or more precise set for clan based economy, concerns were based on pre-patch 27 economy (which also supported solo’s and causals).  

Edited December 2, 2019 by BuckleUpBones

[admin]

4 hours ago, Malcolm3 said:

the game they think they bought once.

This misconception must be cleared.
There are no MMOs that give free content over and over without somebody paying for it. WOW and EVE charge subscriptions, fortnite sells lootboxes, we sell ships, convenience and cosmetics. Every veteran can easily calculate how much he would pay for alts and and mains if they paid subscriptions. 

• We were direct and clear about premium content.
  • Pre-order version contained the yacht from first day of pre-sales, everyone who bought pre-steam bought the yacht.
  • Early access pain was compensated by Pandora DLC - Everyone who bought the early access version bought the Pandora.
• Every ship has an alternative and stronger crafted alternative can be obtained by playing. (Leopard is not in the admiralty, but will be after patch stabilization)

It does not matter if you played 20 hours or 20,000 hours you are all valuable to us as you make recreation of the age of sail possible, and nothing comes close to what we have built together. Adding subscription is not an option - as many players who played this game for 12 months (on and off) cannot afford 180 dollars a year (15 dollars a month). So its better to sell content in separate parts for those who want it.

Thank you game buyers, dlc buyers, fans, critics and customers you all make game better. You are all patrons of this project, members of the guild

Some complainers say there is a choice, and we are taking a wrong (dark or light) side. But there is no choice. NA makes a lot less on selling game copies than on selling premium content. Without premium content development would be stopped completely. We knew this would happen well in advance in 2013. That is why  imported ships were always promised and we never hid this fact from anyone. Its all here on the forum.

[Raekur]

I am not sure how DLC ships being created with seasoned wood is such a game breaker. Every time I have broken up a ship i get maybe at most 5 pieces of wood. Considering the amount of wood needed to craft a 1st rate it would take months to gather the wood needed. Even a Victory needs 2537 wood for the hull, so with 5 DLC ships in game currently yielding on average 3 pieces of wood each (15) it would take you 157 days to get the wood at minimum IF the luck gods were on your side giving you the exact same wood for each ship every day. Dont really see that as game breaking.

[AeRoTR]

@admin I want extra ports and buildings and dockspace dlc which costs exactly as game itself, I do not want buy an alt, but I want to enjoy the game like the guys with alts is that possible?

As I still want to play the game? 

Make that free to play NA, with limited docks, ports, limited up to some 5th rate ships. 

Silver edition which is the current game, golden edition which is same with having one ALT, titanium edition which is golden plus all dlc? 

Just pump 2000 more free to play players, good for veterans, good for everyone. 

I wish you could prevent this alt account thing which becomes more needed with your newest inventions and patches. 

Btw please Hotfix the dlc dropping seasoned woods thing. 

I would love to pay dubloons for my seasoned wood dlc ship redeeming and 4th rate crafting price dubloons to select 50 point port bonuses on it, instead of random drops. 

I am still reminding you that we love this game and sometimes you may think it is toxic. You have to except you are making big changes to a released product, we have no clues, we learn it from some other player, cause you post the patch notes very late. Of course, there is a big reaction. 

Edited December 2, 2019 by AeRoTR

[AeRoTR]

@Raekur what about a nice endymion from that dlc wood?

I hope it will battle you first

[Malcolm3]

19 minutes ago, admin said:

This misconception must be cleared.
There are no MMOs that give free content over and over without somebody paying for it. WOW and EVE charge subscriptions, fortnite sells lootboxes, we sell ships, convenience and cosmetics. Every veteran can easily calculate how much he would pay for alts and and mains if they paid subscriptions. 

Problem here is not DLCs himselves (as as basic principle). While initially game was advertised as sandbox and open world MMO, the DLC ships you introducing are much more suitable for arena lobby-based games (WoT and etc). As a result game are losing its immersion and are turning it into arena lobby-based game when almost only activity in large and beautiful open world (as arena) is to fight in the instance for the loot and sometimes in PB full of 1st rates.

People buy the game as second POTBS or online Sea Dogs, but they are quickly disappointed and leave. Better to abolish OW completely in that case and m - I said that once as a joke, but now it is not.

P.S. By the way, you didn't mention POTBS, they also don't have subscription and are selling things for living.

P.P.S. Theme based gaming content (operations, campaigns or even special activities) as DLC would receive much more warm acceptance, but you are going another way.

[admin]

26 minutes ago, Malcolm3 said:

Problem here is not DLCs himselves (as as basic principle). While initially game was advertised as sandbox and open world MMO, the DLC ships you introducing are much more suitable for arena lobby-based games (WoT and etc). As a result game are losing its immersion and are turning it into arena lobby-based game when almost only activity in large and beautiful open world (as arena) is to fight in the instance for the loot and sometimes in PB full of 1st rates.

NA is a sandbox MMO. We will continue increasing immersion, reducing time wasting, and increasing the cost of power.

As we said above there are literally thousands of opinions on any subject including this. We have no desire to argue, and will follow our plans. Your opinion is just one of the thousand different opinions and sometimes it so happens that your opinion is not the opinion of the majority, sometimes your opinions cant be implemented because its too late or too early. 
 

[Malcolm3]

28 minutes ago, admin said:

NA is a sandbox MMO. We will continue increasing immersion, reducing time wasting, and increasing the cost of power.

It steadily ceases being sandbox and leans to become a WoWS just with sailing ships in open world, as you are obviously too centered on battle instances (creating immersion there, not in OW). And the last two parts of your phrase is a bit contradicting each other.

30 minutes ago, admin said:

As we said above there are literally thousands of opinions on any subject including this. We have no desire to argue, and will follow our plans. Your opinion is just one of the thousand different opinions and sometimes it so happens that your opinion is not the opinion of the majority, sometimes your opinions cant be implemented because its too late or too early. 

So you has no real arguments here or even worse 🙁

[admin]

25 minutes ago, Malcolm3 said:

It steadily ceases being sandbox and leans to become a WoWS just with sailing ships in open world, as you are obviously too centered on battle instances (creating immersion there, not in OW). And the last two parts of your phrase is a bit contradicting each other.

So you has no real arguments here or even worse 🙁

As we said above - we do not argue any more. No point and waste of time.We know what to do. Our backlog of ideas is enough for 12 years of development (enough until Naval Action X).  

This is the game, accept it as it is as it might never get better. Just like soldiers at war can only function if they accept that are already dead. Assume the game will never get ANY update too. If you like it as it is - stay. 

PS.
Do not ever propose to close Open World after Legends experiment (6-8 months dev time wasted, 140,000 copies given for free, 1 person online in 1 month - the amazing and unsinkable @JobaSet) - unfounded proposals like yours (close the ow) cloud and devalue anything you say

[admin]

33 minutes ago, Bryan Von Gyldenloeve said:

You was also clear abouth no wipe of crafting and ship knowledge. There will be no SoL(1-3 rate) dlc. We all understand game need a funding, since it looks loke the game can’t survive alone on the sale of new games. Just think most of us is a bit worried where we are heading. 

Promising to not wipe on launch was the stupidest idea we ever promised. Every.. Single.. MMO wipes on launch and multiple times in between. 
People who understood that support us and still support this decision. If we could roll back time we would repeat this decision without hesitation. We do not care what people who wanted to force us to keep a stupid promise think of us. Wind is howling ship is going. 

[Earl of Grey]

5 hours ago, Macjimm said:

Perhaps it would be wise to try out any new mechanic (for a decent amount of time) before wailing about the game's impending doom.  Some changes take a while to brew and settle in, especially when the game economy is involved.

My fear ist, that If you wait now many people will buy DLC-Ships only to break up the ships every day. If you take this possibility then from the DLC-ships you will produce the next rage storm ... 

2 hours ago, Raekur said:

I am not sure how DLC ships being created with seasoned wood is such a game breaker. Every time I have broken up a ship i get maybe at most 5 pieces of wood. Considering the amount of wood needed to craft a 1st rate it would take months to gather the wood needed. Even a Victory needs 2537 wood for the hull, so with 5 DLC ships in game currently yielding on average 3 pieces of wood each (15) it would take you 157 days to get the wood at minimum IF the luck gods were on your side giving you the exact same wood for each ship every day. Dont really see that as game breaking.

I got yesterday 31 Teak (s) logs from breaking up my requin ...

[admin]

6 minutes ago, Bryan Von Gyldenloeve said:

It was not to start that debate again. Just get tired of, when you on one post claim you was clear on something in the past, but at the same time forget the other things, you also was clear about, but didnt uphold. Think we all understand thing change. 
But you didnt answer me, where do you see the dlc content going. Whats your vision( I know it is not a promise).?

Literally the first phrase we posted in the first ever patchnotes for naval action (the game was not even on steam greenlight) was
Lower your expectations. Expect the worst

Nothing changed

No more promises. 

[Mad Dog Morgan]

14 minutes ago, admin said:

Literally the first phrase we posted in the first ever patchnotes for naval action (the game was not even on steam greenlight) was
Lower your expectations. Expect the worst

Nothing changed

No more promises. 

"Lower your expectations. Expect the worst"

Ironic as that's exactly how I went into release version and very glad I did. Knowing it would still be treated as Beta with no clear road map and more ad hoc changes.  

[Macjimm]

5 hours ago, BuckleUpBones said:

That’s unfounded, no one knew that the economy was going to be inflated so much, or more precise set for clan based economy, concerns were based on pre-patch 27 economy (which also supported solo’s and causals).  

Bones, that's the whole point.  No one knew.  Players once raged and complained about a prediction that never happened, because they just didn't understand what the future would bring.

The Doubloon transporter is a great example.  Today,  no one is complaining that the cost of teleporting between Outposts is killing the game.

The admin has stated that seasoned wood will not be difficult to obtain.  Let's give it a chance.  If seasoned wood is easy to get then it may not matter if players are breaking up ships, or using 's' wood DLC ships.  Perhaps we are raging and complaining about seasoned wood today, but it will be so easy to obtain that it really won't be a big deal.   No one seems to care anymore if it costs a 5-10 doubloons to use the Outpost transporter.