Naval Action now Pay to win ?

[Navalus Magnus]

8 minutes ago, rediii said:

Casuals dont need a superwood 1st rate.

But some want to!

They like the feeling of it!

9 minutes ago, rediii said:

Actually most hardcore players will not be able to get one and it definatly is not the most efficient way to build 1st rate fleets.

One day there will be a full fleet of seasoned wood 1st rates waiting at havocs ports, and than!?

[Earl of Grey]

9 minutes ago, rediii said:

Its just something that gets implemented for ppl that have a lot of time to get more goals into the game to achieve.

Casuals dont need a superwood 1st rate. Actually most hardcore players will not be able to get one and it definatly is not the most efficient way to build 1st rate fleets.

Just compare the cost of producing one normal one and one s one.

True. But the Casual will meet a superwood rättvisan or an superwood Aga in the Open world ... He will Fight it in his oak/oak Agamemnon without portbonus and then feel he never had a chance ... 

 

[Navalus Magnus]

19 minutes ago, rediii said:

If people wouldn't post every shit they have in their mind in this topic my post to make (s) logs easier to craft would be still visible.

That’s another story or do you want to give a hint at me writing nonsense!?

If so feel free to speak frank!

6 minutes ago, rediii said:

There's more than fighting battles in RvR.

That’s so, but fighting the battles is most fun imo.

7 minutes ago, rediii said:

And if they like the feeling of it they probably do even more because of it's effort

That’s the tricky thing with these casuals: This works only to a certain extent. If a certain threshold is passed they just quit the game, because they can’t afford to spend more time to reach  these goals.

[Snoopy]

I really do not understand the thinking behind the seasoned woods.

For smaller groups/solo players you have another gate because its harder now to fit those buildings in, plus the blueprint grind requirements. Did we really need another layer separating have from have-nots and screw over solo players? Port bonuses and friends lists are bad enough in this respect.

For big fleets no relative advantage will be gained since everybody will have them at some point. There is no gameplay or interesting decision making involved because the woods are straight up better - just grind the things. If removing money from the economy was the goal.. why not simply make the ships more expensive in LH and dubs.. they will be now anyway.

The new buildings essentially remove slots from all players for no relative gain, even worse you have to have them if you want to just be on par with others and they are another brick in the wall, another building that needs regrinding if you contemplate nation switching.
Moving the goalpost in crafting like this feels like a tax on my game time and assets. It's like saying "You will grind this, like it or not"
Oh, and all the ships you already have? Yeah, they just gotten worse overnight.. and not having the old ships getting (S) versions of their woods grandfathered gets my ol' eye all twitchy

The game was in a very good state and cutting down on the complexity of the old crafting system was the right thing to do but this decision is clearly a step back.

I am insulated from all this ofcourse because I have an army of alts. I can overcome these issues.. and that is a problem.. I hate the P2W word but at some point you run out of arguments against that label.

[Never]

14 hours ago, Macjimm said:

 

The Doubloon transporter is a great example.  Today no one is complaining that the cost of teleporting between Outposts is killing the game.  They can be bought in most ports.  They are almost free when delivering passengers.  One passenger (or 800 Doubloons) buys alot of outpost visits.

Admin says that getting Seasoned Wood will not be hard.  It is darn easy to get Doubloons.

No, the doubloons for teleport fees is poor comparison at best, being used completely out of context. When the doubloons were introduced as teleport fees, they were very expensive and the ways to obtain them were nowhere as varied as they are now. Now off course nobody cares, you could get 1000 doubloons from 1 cargo mission for the past months and now it's still 800. They were also added to NPC trade ships. If all the information about how doubloons were going to added into the game and all the possible ways to get them were implemented from the start or least they were made known for futures patches and the players were informed about it; then there would have been no outrage at all. 

It's not just the changes that get made, but how they are made and more importantly sometimes, it's the lack of proper communication with the player base from the developers in some occasions. 

Edited December 2, 2019 by Never

[Angus MacDuff]

5 minutes ago, Never said:

No, the doubloons for teleport fees is poor comparison at best, being used completely out of context. When the doubloons were introduced as teleport fees, they were very expensive and the ways to obtain them were nowhere as varied as they are now

I disagree. As @Macjimm said, The raging was incredible, despite the fact that @admin explained clearly that the Dubs would be easy and it would cause no pain.  Hoping this is similar.

[Snoopy]

17 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I disagree. As @Macjimm said, The raging was incredible, despite the fact that @admin explained clearly that the Dubs would be easy and it would cause no pain.  Hoping this is similar.

We kinda can only comment on the game in it's current state.
I think rage about teleport prices was well justified.. as @Never has said there was no way of telling when or how the dub supply would be made easier.
It was fixed and is not an issue now and (S) Woods might turn out the same.

The scope of players and developers are different, the devs know what they are going to do next and players are limited to the problems 'in the now' and today witth that limited view on the (potentially) missing pieces the seasoned woods mechanics is bad. The stick is missing the carrot.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Snoopy

[SS Minnow]

Greetings all!

The seasoned wood mechanic is serving to drain excess currency from the game mainly from the wealthiest captains who have nothing left to buy.  The game economy needs this to keep currency value stable.   The DLC ships needed some improvement to be more viable in battle with 55 pt crafted ships, so I think they bumped the DLCs correctly by allowing (S) woods, and a few port bonus.   As long as the DLC ships are clearly inferior, its not pay to win.  We might need less port bonus drops on DLC to keep them inferior...maybe readjust in time.  Breaking up DLC ships should not give (S) wood.

We are enjoying the new challenge of raiding the AI fleets.  The wind zones make it more possible to get enough people to commit to a long sail operation.  Overall, it seems like a good mechanic.

[Never]

20 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I disagree. As @Macjimm said, The raging was incredible, despite the fact that @admin explained clearly that the Dubs would be easy and it would cause no pain.  Hoping this is similar.

He didn't explain how it would be easy, the how is important, like I said it's not just the change but the way it's implemented. Nobody can guess from 'easy' that you were going to get 1k doubloons from a single cargo mission or up to 5k from a random NPC trader.

Admin is a very intelligent person, he can do a better job at making the players feel at ease about big changes if he wants to. A lot of the raging was due to pvp marks losing their value after people had been farming them for months as well. 

Edited December 2, 2019 by Never

[HachiRoku]

19 hours ago, admin said:

On paid content in general

• People were saying the game is p2w when we introduced an imported overpowered yacht. It was happening when the yacht was not even sailing officially and the game was not on sale. 
• Our official position remains - Its not P2W if you can build or capture a better ship you cant call lower quality vessels imported vessels.
  • Surprise is better than any imported ship in game
  • Ocean and santisima is better than any imported ship in game
  • it is only pay to win when the only way to get power is to buy something for real money.
• BUT, There are 100s of opinions on the matter
  • Some people say yacht is p2w because its better than lynx.
  • Some people call bullshit on this saying ocean is better than yacht anyway. 
  • We no longer will waste time arguing. Customers are always right and will vote for the game by their feet or their wallets.
• Customers want beautiful ships and we will give it to them. The exchange is fair, because if it was unfair we would be called on this, and everybody would be gone. We do not sneak in anything. We are 100% open. We were promising premium ships since 2013

just because there are ships ingame that have stronger stats does not mean the system is not p2w. 

I have a question to you and you be honest please. If you released a trinco dlc tomorrow and left the trinco in the game as a craftable ship too. How many players would continue to craft the trinco?? Would it be fair? Would it be p2w? Even without seasoned woods it would be still p2w in principle. Are GTA shark cards not P2W? Technically you can get 1000000 gold in gta by grinding 2-4 hours but by buying cards you get it right away. In Naval action I can get a 4th rate DLC instantly. If I wanted to craft a 4th rate I would need to buy shipyard, mats etc. 

It is pay to win and stop justifying it with nonsensical arguments. Anything that saves you time is p2w. There is no question there. 

The players that cryed about the yacht, herc and requin being p2w were always fundamentally right. They knew the consequences the DLC ships had on the economy back then. You have destroyed the economy with them. The more DLC you add the worse it gets. You cannot even add a 1st rate dlc because of how bad the dlc model is. If you added them as permits from the start and players were required to craft them they would have had 0 effect on economy and 0 effect on game balance. 

You listened to the players that wanted DLC ships out of convenience and REPEATEDLY IGNORED every logical warning we gave you. You reap what you sow and I really wanted DLC ships to work man. I made a promise to myself and you that as long as they are not fixed I will boycott your DLC. I bought the flags but until DLC are turned into craftable permits they remain p2w and I will not pay a cent for them. I have even offered to buy 3 random forum members any 1 DLC ship they choose if the DLC ships are change and gave you my word that I will buy all DLC ships if you change how they are implemented because unlike many others I care about the long time effects. 

Too bad because I would love to own the leopard  

 

[admin]

22 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

 

It is pay to win and stop justifying it with nonsensical arguments. Anything that saves you time is p2w. There is no question there. 

 

 

You contradict yourself in 2 sentences.
Pay to win - is when you buy a bottle in old archeage that gives you such a HP boost that it is impossible to kill you.
Pay to win is when you buy a special shell that penetrates 30-50% better than anything you can get for silver.
Pay to win is when you can buy a guaranteed win. 

Pay to save time is not pay to win.
The whole world is build on paying to save time. You buy plane tickets to not swim across the atlantic, You buy cars to save time, you buy on amazon to not walk to the store.
 Using your logic having a duel room or small battle room is pay to win, outposts are pay to win, wind boosts are pay to win et cetera. You argument is stupid, there is no question here.
But its just our opinion. There is a 1000 of opinions right here on this forum. 

[LeBoiteux]

I said it again and again : that British rating thing will only bring you troubles, baby!  😁

Edited December 2, 2019 by LeBoiteux

[z4ys]

Pls close. should have been done after first admin answer.

[Aquillas]

I paid for all DLC's and I did not win all battles. So sad... :p

[van stiermarken]

When you play alone without clan, the DLC ships are a very good addition. And I've no problem when they can be build with this (S) wood.

What I think in terms of (S) Wood that it is not that correct way to implement it like we have seen here. You can make it as hard as you can for getting it (labour hours, Dublones etc.), it will always make the game more unbalanced as it is right now.

instead of making penalties for every port more you get as a clan you implement another way to destabilize the game.

Anyway we have it now and we'll see how it will work for the future, but I await the worst and more players leaving the game. As we see right now.

[Conte D. Catellani]

7 minutes ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

 

Consider two employees, Albert who has little money and he must travel to work every day on the bus with this trip taking 2 hours. Bernie has a lot of money through no merit or achievements of his own, this allows him to purchase a car. He can get to work in 30 minutes. Bernie can arrive sleep in, take more time getting ready for work and thus be more productive, as such when they both competing against each other for promotion the employers pick Bernie. Bernie hasn't paid for his promotion but he has paid for things that will give him an unfair advantage against others in that setting. That is the point Hachi is trying to make and it is one that is not incorrect.

Albert and Bernie started to play NA at the day zero and are happy, they spent few hours in company of her new comrades sinking NPc ships.. Month after month they make shipyards, woods, and workshops...they have upgrades, books...more weeks and they are in a nice Faction having fun in port battles, ganking players, trading goods.

After six months Jhon buy Na.. and his ganked in his little basic cutter by Albert and Bernie every night, he has difficult to upgrade his shipyard, to cap something more big than a Mercury, but he wants to be like Russel Crow in his Surprise ..so Jhon use the money that his grandmother gave him for xmas and decided to buy a Leopard..now Jhon is happy and can play with his Leopard capping NPC Surprises, Cerberus essex till Albert and Bernie come to  sink him in their shiny Oceans with PB that Jhon will never build becouse dont have time

  

[Conte D. Catellani]

You miss the part where who is more old still have the more powerful ships, probably more than one in the shipyard,  and Jhon just has one  DLC ship every day to be a lil more competitive, without  leaving his job to spend 24 hours every day to fill the gap between him and  the other two guys.

Is a pay to save time

[admin]

52 minutes ago, Conte D. Catellani said:

Albert and Bernie started to play NA at the day zero and are happy, they spent few hours in company of her new comrades sinking NPc ships.. Month after month they make shipyards, woods, and workshops...they have upgrades, books...more weeks and they are in a nice Faction having fun in port battles, ganking players, trading goods.

After six months Jhon buy Na.. and his ganked in his little basic cutter by Albert and Bernie every night, he has difficult to upgrade his shipyard, to cap something more big than a Mercury, but he wants to be like Russel Crow in his Surprise ..so Jhon use the money that his grandmother gave him for xmas and decided to buy a Leopard..now Jhon is happy and can play with his Leopard capping NPC Surprises, Cerberus essex till Albert and Bernie come to  sink him in their shiny Oceans with PB that Jhon will never build becouse dont have time

  

PS. Buying Leopard to capture Cerberus. Very funny, you made my day.

[admin]

Imported ships are not Pay To Win, they give convenience but there is always an alternative. 
We plan to introduce a whole variety of new vessels thanks to you -  patrons!
DLC on Nelson's nemesis - Redoutable will be added to game before Christmas

Thank you all DLC buyers.