Seasoned Woods poll

[Macjimm]

6 hours ago, Bubba Smith said:

I say, lets give it a chance.

Good attitude.   Admin has declared that seasoned woods will be easy to obtain, so it seems wise to keep an open mind till the details are revealed.

Lots of players ranted about introducing new currency, but almost no-one is still complaining that we stopped using gold.  The predicted consequences just never happened.  Things turned out okay, and the dire warnings of doom were unnecessary.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Macjimm
Fact Correction

[John Cavanaugh]

Mechanicaly this change will probably have little effect on actual gameplay. Mechanicaly there is little difference in a surprise with 65cm thickness or 68, in battle .2kn might save you from a gank or help you stay with a damaged ship that needs to be focused down, but won’t itself win the battle.  The reality of the situation doesn’t matter, only the perception of it. 

To quote Frictional Games dev blog;

”The reality that we sense in front of us is a fiction created by our brains. A host of modules process information in various ways and the end result is a mental model of the outside world. Knowing how this works is crucial to game development as the shape of these mental simulations has a huge effect on how a game feels and plays.”

Many of us have encountered players who believe in the boogeyman of meta superships. As an anecdote, I joined a small pirate clan for a brief stint about 3 months ago. In battle, this clan sailing a Vic, third rate, and two supporting trincs, the lineships both captured from AI, ran from a single player in a Ratvisaan, voicing on Discord the certainty that they could not possibly win the fight, that the “meta player” couldn’t be killed without meta ships. We all here I should hope know that with good gameplay they could have defeated the player Ratv and covered damaged ships. Instead they sent a lone frigate to cover their escape. 

Another anecdote but one I hope more players will have encountered, in earlier iterations of this game 2016/2017 we had Actual meta ships, like pump stacked fourth rated that took half an hour to sink after their sides were completely gone. Yet on the whole people still chose to fight, not because of the reality of the odds of success, but because people had the perception that the fight was largely down to player skill and the actual hull and rate of the ships involved.

we are straying dangerously into territory where new players are bombarded in help chat and in nation with recipes for ships, the correct wood choices and what mods they need, and people complain that a “pvp ship” is prohibitively expensive, such that a casual player could not possibly compete. The reality doesn’t matter, only the perception of those players. 

I had a fun fight yesterday. Among the other participants were myself in a Fir/fir belle poule, against Drakonis in a Cagurian constitution. I made the false assumption based on his thickness and maneuverability that he must be in a nice ship, when in reality it was a usable ship handled nicely.

it is not the older players who know better who fear pvp in anything less than a meta ship, it is the new players who believe that every enemy they spot cannot be anything else. But we are reaching a point where that misconception is harder to argue against, and that player perception is harder to shift. It has to be done on the developmental level.

[van Veen]

45 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

but no-one is still complaining that we stopped using gold.

Currencies were a bad idea when they were introduced and they are still one of the worst features of the game imho. I would still argue about it, if it would help. But it's futile. Devs are convinced that segmenting the game artificially by introducing tiered currencies/woods/chests/gear/... is good for the game. I always argue against that, because I am deeply convinced that it's just random bullshit thrown over an otherwise great game. It's limiting gameplay. The purpose is to create objects that players want. So, the whole purpose of the game is to obtain that hot stuff. But this stuff makes a huge difference between those that have it (hardcore players) and those that don't (the casuals). This elitistic game design is making it less fun to play.

Devs have a different definition of what is "good for the game", yet I still haven't found out what it is. 

[Bubba Smith]

16 hours ago, Winterthrust said:

Which I think was the point, more end game content for the bored end game players. I am in disagreement however, I still feel this was a bad move but the Admin has already decreed that there will be no changes made to this update despite the overwhelming negative reaction to it, so whats the point in arguing?

The point to arguing is, you have a voice to make this game better. I will much rather see constructive feedback that developers can work with rather than non-specific criticism that doesn't address a point or points for that matter. How can it be better with Seasoned wood types? I think there is much more potential in working with this mechanic, such as it is, that can be adapted and improved then nothing at all. Maybe seasoned woods in it's initial iteration doesn't fit well, but with a little work it can grow into something cool. Lets not shoot it down too fast unless its been given a good workable improvement chance. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Bubba Smith

[Macjimm]

3 hours ago, Bubba Smith said:

Lets not shoot it down too fast unless its been given a good workable improvement chance. 

Good on ya lad.  Each change that pleases some will anger and frustrate others.  There is no perfect solution: there will always be naysayers.  

Even if we give the current changes a chance there are some who will claim that the game is terrible because their personal demands were not fulfilled.

I still enjoy the game.  Seems like hundreds of others like it too.  There has been a steady population,  of a few hundred, for almost 5 years now.  All of the predictions, that the game would be killed, have been proven false.  Many warnings about fatal mistakes in development have been ignored, and we are still playing.

Seasoned wood seems like less of a bad idea now, than when it was first introduced.  Perhaps it really won't matter much most of the time. The game can still be fun with a regular wood ship.  And perhaps the secret of easily obtained seasoned wood will reveal itself.  I'm guessing that "easy seasoned" has very little to do with crafting.  Only powerful clans will craft "seasoned", and it will never be easy.  The rest of us will find another ways to get seasoned wood ships.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Macjimm

[van Veen]

On 12/9/2019 at 10:33 AM, van Veen said:

The seasoned woods are a prime example of illogics. 

• Why do seasoned woods drop from "privateer fleets"
• Why are the stats of seasoned woods so incredibly better, where is the balance?
• Why are these privateer fleets only at certain locations? 
• Why do these privateers have agreesive AI?
• Why do these privateers have insane open world speed bonus?
• Why do privateers drop permits for sheds?
• Why do players need a permit for a shed building, but none for an academy or a shipyard?
• Why does putting woods into a shed cost so many doubloons, whereas building a complete 5th rate costs zero? 
• What do privateers have to do with seasoning woods in the first place? 

Anyone has a reasonable answer or a solution for one of those points? No? Then, I'd say seasoned woods are fubar. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Bubba Smith said:

The point to arguing is, you have a voice to make this game better. I will much rather see constructive feedback that developers can work with rather than non-specific criticism that doesn't address a point or points for that matter. How can it be better with Seasoned wood types? I think there is much more potential in working with this mechanic, such as it is, that can be adapted and improved then nothing at all. Maybe seasoned woods in it's initial iteration doesn't fit well, but with a little work it can grow into something cool. Lets not shoot it down too fast unless its been given a good workable improvement chance. 

I've tried that, multiple times. There are many issues in recent patches that I've had objections to and made those objections known in, what I believed to be,  well thought out, well researched arguments. I've been polite, I've been open to the opinions of others, I've followed the fourms rules and posted in the appropriate sections, I've even done my best to provide cheap and simple solutions and been open to feedback without resorting to derogatory comments.

For my effort I've been belittled, insulted and banned numerous times by a person who is the physical representative of the Development team of this game. I've watched as they have done the same to others, demonised those who complain, go on epic long temper tantrums and proclaim loudly that 'haters gonna hate' and nothing will be done. They proceed to make promises they never keep or explain game mechanics that have yet to be implemented or have been implemented in an entirely different way.

I was really looking forward to January because I'd have a little extra money then and I was going to buy both UA - Dreadnoughts (I love the Pre-Dreadnaught era of ships) and UA - Age of Sail but I have decided against that, I decided against buying the HMS Lepord DLC I will not give this company another penny of my money nor will I waste my time arguing in my attempts to improve it. I've tried and I thought I could do some good here being that I once did research for a large Marketing and PR company on what MMOs worked and why as well wrote and article for for a now defunct gaming magazine about these companies obsession with Hardcore PvP and why it never works.

I tried, I failed, time to move on.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Guest

[Yoha]

I think people are overreacting to this update. Negative feedback is usually more abundant because disgruntled people are more likely to voice their opinions.

I am in one of the largest US clans and I cant think of any clan mates who are mad at the addition of seasoned woods. Yes we may moan about how we dont have all the blueprints yet, but in a few weeks we probably will.

I for one like the added complexity to crafting ships. If people want to spend $$$ to buy DLC ships so they can tear them down for the slight chance of getting seasoned wood, then that's fine by me. They paid for the DLC and so can anyone. I for one only have the Hercules DLC which I use in the PZ.

If people want to purchase AI ships and tear those down that's fine. It's a good money sink for the game...and since admiralty ships are 5th rate and below, it takes a whole lot of time and ships to get a decent amount of wood. 

Player skill is still more important than what ship you sail in.

Now if we could just have a use for experience points after becoming Admiral that would be great.

 

[Knuddel]

On 12/17/2019 at 12:00 PM, van Veen said:

Currencies were a bad idea when they were introduced and they are still one of the worst features of the game imho. I would still argue about it, if it would help. But it's futile. Devs are convinced that segmenting the game artificially by introducing tiered currencies/woods/chests/gear/... is good for the game. I always argue against that, because I am deeply convinced that it's just random bullshit thrown over an otherwise great game. It's limiting gameplay. The purpose is to create objects that players want. So, the whole purpose of the game is to obtain that hot stuff. But this stuff makes a huge difference between those that have it (hardcore players) and those that don't (the casuals). This elitistic game design is making it less fun to play.

Devs have a different definition of what is "good for the game", yet I still haven't found out what it is. 

i think i figured it out: Sell more DLC ships.

[Sento de Benimaclet]

It happens that if the first and second rates are already expensive, the permits and now the new woods, obviously only a few will be able to enjoy ships of line with woods (S). Most of us will have to settle for using DLC boats where you do have access to those woods. And therefore, at the moment, we cannot participate in important port battles, since the difference between both woods makes a difference, and very much the difference.