State of shallow PvP?

[Aegishjalmur]

I was thinking about coming back to the game and see what it's like these days but wanted to ask here about the current state of the game in shallows ( not interested in the bigger and expensive ships anymore ) first. Is there any good PvP to be had in the shallows these days and if so what is the meta like? Is it still only Hercules spam or are other ships viable too now? How is the Surprise and Renommeé?

[admin]

Our answer to complains about demasting and carronade meta in shallows is simple.

Captains who complain about carronades and demasting should read more historical references. This is how shallow pvp must look like and this is how it looks like. 

We will continue pushing historical outcomes. We do not pretend to be the only alternative, but we KNOW everything else is just 10x worse. (ass creed with rams and rockets, or multiple alleged NA killers who haters were always giving out as examples.

 

[Liq]

If you dont have mast mods and are facing someone that does it's already gg - 5 ish mast hits with carronades and game over

[admin]

4 hours ago, Mascarino said:

 Well said. Privateer, Lynx, Pickle, Mercury, Brig, Cerberus, Frigate, Essex, etc... all obsolet, just taking space. 

People buy STG 44 for 28,000 dollars not because its the best weapon not because its obsolete and taking space.

We in Game Labs bring to life generals that can never walk this earth again, ships that can never sail again, weapons that can never shoot again; we get handwritten letters from american relatives of confederate and union generals who thanked us for getting their grand grand granddads into the games we get letters from museums for the ships we make. 

We add ships because they are cool. Not everybody buys this game because of shallow waters patrols. In fact nobody buys it these days for shallow water patrols. Players grow into RVR and ONLY then they start using best ships and best guns. But many buy because of the ships we have. Because we have them and 100% of other game do not. 

Its just shallow thinking from people like you and @Teutonic, seems like you will never get why we add ships like Lynx. And its ok. You seem to want a 3 ship 3 gun balanced counter strike that nobody wants. I love all ships (even Wapen) and honestly do not care about your shallow water opinion on HMS Pickle and Lynx and their usefullness. I will continue adding beautiful vessels that deserve to be recreated. In this and future games.

 

[erelkivtuadrater]

2 minutes ago, Aegishjalmur said:

I was thinking about coming back to the game and see what it's like these days but wanted to ask here about the current state of the game in shallows ( not interested in the bigger and expensive ships anymore ) first. Is there any good PvP to be had in the shallows these days and if so what is the meta like? Is it still only Hercules spam or are other ships viable too now? How is the Surprise and Renommeé?

any 32pd carronade shallow ship is meta

[Aegishjalmur]

4 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

any 32pd carronade shallow ship is meta

I was actually thinking about OW, not RvR...

[erelkivtuadrater]

7 minutes ago, Aegishjalmur said:

I was actually thinking about OW, not RvR...

Honestly  

12 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

any 32pd carronade shallow ship is meta

They do so much damage vs the small healthpool of anything of light frigates and below, aswell as they make devestating deck cannons for boarding. If you 1v1 someone with carronades in the same ship, your almost guaranteed dead because of the general dangers of close combat vs carronades

Edited November 26, 2019 by erelkivtuadrater

[Aegishjalmur]

10 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

They do so much damage vs the small healthpool of anything of light frigates and below, aswell as they make devestating deck cannons for boarding

What happened to chaining and demasting tho?

[erelkivtuadrater]

4 minutes ago, Aegishjalmur said:

What happened to chaining and demasting tho?

they can also demast, and do alot more damage then 9pd. They also have decent penetration think its 87cm on 500m, so they can quite comfortable pen the sides from distance and you would have to be in a belle poule i think to have a thick enough Main mast lower section, to avoid penetration above 500m. Unless you run french rig or something ofc

Edited November 26, 2019 by erelkivtuadrater

[erelkivtuadrater]

but dont avoid it, just be prepared to face carronade ships in the shallows  and if you dont do the same you will figure out what i mean soon enough  

[Aegishjalmur]

1 minute ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

but dont avoid it, just be prepared to face carronade ships in the shallows  and if you dont do the same you will figure out what i mean soon enough  

Last time I played the thing was longs and even mediums had longer range and greater accuracy over carronades, so if you could sail and keep distance you could easily kite and beat them...I mean that's the point of longs and mediums, right? 

But if its only carronade spam now and longs/mediums are useless, then it's not worth coming back to this I guess...

[Aegishjalmur]

51 minutes ago, Liq said:

If you dont have mast mods and are facing someone that does it's already gg - 5 ish mast hits with carronades and game over

Feelsbadman... so big ships is the only "fun" left in the game?

[erelkivtuadrater]

41 minutes ago, Aegishjalmur said:

Feelsbadman... so big ships is the only "fun" left in the game?

well its fun, but it can be really demotivating if you face an other player with much better stats and bonuses on his ship aswell as 20% repair increase with mods, and you are clearly doing less mistakes, but just cant outlast him, but its even better if you can manage to beat him and then find out he had some heavy advantages

Edited November 26, 2019 by erelkivtuadrater

[Aegishjalmur]

10 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

but it can be really demotivating if you face an other player with much better stats and bonuses on his ship aswell as 20% repair increase with mods, and you are clearly doing less mistakes, but just cant outlast him, but its even better if you can manage to beat him and then find out he had some heavy advantages

This is one of the reasons I quit big ships and the game in general. Upgrades and stats give too much advantage for how scarce they are. Basically if you aren't one of the unemployed guys without responsibilities and families or just anything better to do really who can and want to waste all this extra time to get the best ships / upgrades in the dozen, so they can afford losing them in PvP, then the game really sucks.

I had hoped it is different with the shallow ships and I have always enjoyed them too but I guess it's all just one boring grind now...

[Medniy Sandal]

In shallow water, there are 2 PVP zones now, on different days. You can take any interesting shallow ship, even captured from the NPS, and go to war. For the evening you can easily earn a combine of medals. And have fun in the game.
Make a ship for shallow water inexpensive. Port for storage of ships is not captured. In which you can buy at auction repairs. You can not even Kraft yourself or carry from the "Kraft port".
What is the difficulty of playing in shallow water?
A little advice: do not listen to advice, try to play. Recently, there have been too many false statements on the forum, based on the personal opinion of the player. It's not all that bad in the game. (My opinion)

Sorry, Translated with Translator.

[Aegishjalmur]

4 minutes ago, Medniy Sandal said:

Make a ship for shallow water inexpensive.

Yeah, this is what I wanted to do but as the others said... upgrades are too strong, so I get hello kittyed by players with the good upgrades way too easy. I mean what use has a cheap and inexpensive ship, if I only get farmed by veterans with good ships/upgrades?

[erelkivtuadrater]

58 minutes ago, Medniy Sandal said:

In shallow water, there are 2 PVP zones now, on different days. You can take any interesting shallow ship, even captured from the NPS, and go to war. For the evening you can easily earn a combine of medals. And have fun in the game.
Make a ship for shallow water inexpensive. Port for storage of ships is not captured. In which you can buy at auction repairs. You can not even Kraft yourself or carry from the "Kraft port".
What is the difficulty of playing in shallow water?
A little advice: do not listen to advice, try to play. Recently, there have been too many false statements on the forum, based on the personal opinion of the player. It's not all that bad in the game. (My opinion)

Sorry, Translated with Translator.

its not my or @Liq opinion that you can easily demast any shallow ship with the 32pd carronades, its a fact. Of course you can easily do it for free by just farming other shallow ships and then do pvp, but that takes time to get those ships and OP would probably get farmed by carronade frigates in the patrol zone considering the shrinking circle.

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

The carro meta killed it for me..

[erelkivtuadrater]

think the problem is that the carronade keeps the damage output from when its fired to when it hits, which it actually didnt because of the shorter barrel they lost their muzzle velocity much quicker then the "normal" cannons

@admin Maybe muzzle velocity vs hit damage is something to consider when you finalize the combat model?  

Edited November 26, 2019 by erelkivtuadrater

[AeRoTR]

The carro meta + repair meta. That is the latest state of the game. 

In this game combat is close distance most of the time. So carronades rule, 32pd and above are very powerful. They are still accurate, so they rule the waters. They should be less accurate and less powerfull. Full carronade trinco has same or better broadside weight than 4th rates, or even Wasa. 

Port bonus crew 4 is very op when combined with 1 good repair upgrade and 2 repair books. It is like aliens are regenerating the ship from death. 

As mentioned many many times, hard caps need to reduce and stacking same type of mods should have penalties. 

[erelkivtuadrater]

This might be abit exaggerated, but maybe this would look better in terms of balance and usage of cannons vs carronades and roles in battle.

Edited November 26, 2019 by erelkivtuadrater

[Medniy Sandal]

1 hour ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

Это не мое мнение или мнение @Liq о том, что вы можете легко нанести удар по любому мелкому кораблю с 32-мя карронадами, это факт. Конечно, вы можете легко сделать это бесплатно, просто взяв на вооружение другие мелкие корабли, а затем сделав пвп, но это займет время, чтобы получить эти корабли, и ОП, вероятно, получит ферму от фрегатов в районе патрулирования, учитывая сокращающийся круг.

That's a big question. The PVP zones in shallow water can be considered as pain, 32 carrons on several ships. Some of the players have strong upgrades. Panic + "I'll lose" + "I don't have such a strong ship" = "the game is rather bad. I won't play. )))
Or take the ship, put up strong/simple/any bits and go to war. The PVP zone mechanics = almost always unequal battle. Well, if you're not sitting in a single sector of the PVP zone, there are 1x1 fights. 
Personally for me it is acceptable to take the ship and go to war. With any result. It doesn't matter if I won or lost.
You have your own choice of war in shallow water. You can not go to the PVP zone, now there are port battles in shallow water. You can just hunt players, with different results.
Guys, be easier. It's just a game with pixelships. And make a ship for shallow waters is not expensive. Plus Pandora's ship is available for free, you can fight on it. I myself very often go on such a ship, without upgrades, with medium guns.
We come for pleasure in the game, not for the statistics of victories. My opinion.

Sorry, translated with Translator/

[erelkivtuadrater]

1 hour ago, Medniy Sandal said:

That's a big question. The PVP zones in shallow water can be considered as pain, 32 carrons on several ships. Some of the players have strong upgrades. Panic + "I'll lose" + "I don't have such a strong ship" = "the game is rather bad. I won't play. )))
Or take the ship, put up strong/simple/any bits and go to war. The PVP zone mechanics = almost always unequal battle. Well, if you're not sitting in a single sector of the PVP zone, there are 1x1 fights. 
Personally for me it is acceptable to take the ship and go to war. With any result. It doesn't matter if I won or lost.
You have your own choice of war in shallow water. You can not go to the PVP zone, now there are port battles in shallow water. You can just hunt players, with different results.
Guys, be easier. It's just a game with pixelships. And make a ship for shallow waters is not expensive. Plus Pandora's ship is available for free, you can fight on it. I myself very often go on such a ship, without upgrades, with medium guns.
We come for pleasure in the game, not for the statistics of victories. My opinion.

Sorry, translated with Translator/

that is true, if all players have the same mind to think its just ships so it doesn't matter as much if i sink or not  it wouldn't be a problem. But even if you got to the 1v1 part in Patrol Zone you are not likely to get a fight because its usually the pvp players on the higher tier that goes for those because its actually equal fight, but people prefer to gank 10v1 instead of fair 1v1 because they are afraid of their pixel ships

[Gregory Rainsborough]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

We will ignore complainers on shallow combat and will continue pushing historical outcomes

Our answer to complains about demasting meta in shallows is simple.

We do not pretend to be the only alternative there is always other games you can go to enjoy realistic age of sail combat: like ass creed with rams and alleged naval action killer blackwake

ass creed xD

[RKY]

13 minutes ago, admin said:

Our answer to complains about demasting and carronade meta in shallows is simple.

Captains who complain about carronades and demasting should read more historical references. This is how shallow pvp must look like and this is how it looks like. 

We will continue pushing historical outcomes. We do not pretend to be the only alternative, but we KNOW everything else is just 10x worse. (ass creed with rams and rockets, or multiple alleged NA killers who haters were always giving out as examples.

 

there are fact and history and aside from that there is fun. The game tweaked history in many ways, but shallows are simply broken at the moment.

32's are a pain and should be limited to 12pd normal canon ship.

Maximum in shallows to be fun should be 24's or 18's.

or fix the damage balance of the carronades altogether. As we can see in this beautiful painting, neither ship uses carros. they both have normal guns. carros should not be meta and a fight shouldnt last 3 min.

[AeRoTR]

18 minutes ago, admin said:

Captains who complain about carronades and demasting should read more historical references. This is how shallow pvp must look like and this is how it looks like. 

So carronades were the prefered type of weapon used in battles in real life ? 

Which one came first carronades or cannons ? I guess carronades must be the most advanced weapon and all the ships using carronades at that time, cause they are very powerfull.