Loki Runes in PVE

[Bubba Smith]

Lokis will only force players on PvE to attack single NPCs and/or make sure their target(s) are much smaller then their own boat. I recommend Lokis be taken out. 

[admin]

11 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Frankly I am a bit proud of my PvE peace server colleagues as they are raising such strong opposition to an unwanted change. Not seen yet on this forum to this extent. You are no carebears, as they call you. You can fight!

This attitude shows a simple thing. Peace servers treats the whole situation as us vs them. For some reason it was treated as a fight not a cooperation. 
We deployed LOKI on PVP first and it was active there for some time. Everyone knew it would be also eventually working on the PVE server - nobody said a word. We always said we will deploy it on pve for testing. For testing means - giving it out to see if people like it or not. Most peace server colleagues treated it as insult , a war, instead of experiment. Some abused the devs some review bombed the game. 

[admin]

9 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Frankly I am a bit proud of my PvE peace server colleagues as they are raising such strong opposition to an unwanted change. Not seen yet on this forum to this extent. You are no carebears, as they call you. You can fight!

And while PvP server is currently in decline, we are the new backbone of Naval Action, with a more loyal community than War Server has (actually it was the case for a long time, just not so obvious yet). The responsibility is now on us to keep this game great.

The poll. Watch out when it comes, Captains, and vote for or against Loki Rune in its present form. Until then, avoid unnecessary risks in your better ships.

There will be no poll

Loki could have opened a door to a consensual PVP and was supposed to increase variety on the Peace server. We do not see any roads like this based on feedback to this experiment. Peace server should not have any players on the opposite side, its against the spirit of peace and friendship. 

[Salty Sails]

If only PVP Server gets the Loki Runes in future! 

Why not giving NPC Aggressions only to PVE Server! 

If the whole PVE Server want only to fight against them, give them a feeling to get hunted by AIs! 

P.S. if you press TAB in battle, you can see if it’s a Loki Player or AI! But don’t forget, it’s sometimes easier to sink a player instead of an AI who will snipe your stern from far far away with single shots! 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Salty Sails

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

6 hours ago, admin said:

There will be no poll

Loki could have opened a door to a consensual PVP and was supposed to increase variety on the Peace server. We do not see any roads like this based on feedback to this experiment. Peace server should not have any players on the opposite side, its against the spirit of peace and friendship. 

So you cancelled your own idea again? Remember, poll wasn't my initiative, I picked it up when you announced it.

And to answer previous post: no, it was not clear from original announcement that Loki Rune would come to our server, and with same mechanism as on PvP war server. Also we have differences between servers, like the center zone in patrol zone or (until recently) capturable SOL on PvE peace server only, which implies it's not "automatic" that we get the same as war server.

On the first day Loki appeared, I read comments on global chat all the time "It's PvP server item only, it does not work here". I think the functionality was triggered with the following mini patch, as your test experiment.

 

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

6 hours ago, admin said:

This attitude shows a simple thing. Peace servers treats the whole situation as us vs them. For some reason it was treated as a fight not a cooperation. 
We deployed LOKI on PVP first and it was active there for some time. Everyone knew it would be also eventually working on the PVE server - nobody said a word. We always said we will deploy it on pve for testing. For testing means - giving it out to see if people like it or not. Most peace server colleagues treated it as insult , a war, instead of experiment. Some abused the devs some review bombed the game. 

This whole indirect PvP concept behind Loki Rune (however I consider it a fun innovation for war server) is so alien to peace server population, I think you had to anticipate this reaction. Maybe you are used only to "fight" with your war server clientel and got surprised for once peace server community reacted toxic. It was just too big a surprise to them, and a negative one in addition. I was told guys lost ships like their release redeemed 5/5 Christian because of not knowing Loki would bring them a human counterpart in battle. That is not exactly producing sympathies, you know.

If you had prepared them with some more clear words and a warning "this is a test and it will take place for a week", the reaction probably would have been less hostile. But it happened out of the blue and against how they believed the server would be all about. You have to admit, quite a shock.

[Aldeveron]

Introducing PVP into PVE in this way, is the worst idea I've seen in this game so far. No-one I've seen, on PVE, likes the idea. The sooner the idea is reversed, the better - before even more PVE players quit the game in disgust.

[Sir Gregg]

I'm playing on the pve server to have nothing to do with another player, I'm only interested in facing AI. Remove the loki rune from the server or give me the option to block other players from getting into my fight. Also I started on this server to be able to get the experience to transition into the PvP later and know whats going on instead of getting my clock cleaned right off the bat. 

[Jan van Santen]

8 hours ago, admin said:

There will be no poll

Loki could have opened a door to a consensual PVP and was supposed to increase variety on the Peace server. We do not see any roads like this based on feedback to this experiment. Peace server should not have any players on the opposite side, its against the spirit of peace and friendship. 

no poll ? its not needed anyway and you could have known right from start how players would react to Loki on PvE.

Consensual ? If you wanted that, why didnt you make it so from start ? You would find much better acceptance for a fair and consensual PvP.

Next: get rid of the second big annoyance in the last patch: Port Boni  linked to port ownership are fail on PvE. 

Playerbase  structure is a lot more solo/small clan/losely organized clan  than on PvP. The largest clan on PvE eg has not managed to get a port yet. Clans aren't as tight knit on PVE....

You kick all small clans, solo players and losely associated clans out of crafting with the current system.....

[Holm Hansen]

8 hours ago, Salty Sails said:

... But don’t forget, it’s sometimes easier to sink a player instead of an AI who will snipe your stern from far far away with single shots! 

it's not just about opponents are easy to sink or not. ... and we know the AI behavior

Edited October 30, 2019 by Holm Hansen

[Paulo de Antigua]

Dear developpers, 

I first must thank you to implement the Port bonus and the Port battles on the pve server - it is a great thing and adds content to the game - And adds indirect competition between the nations: For exemple getting the hostility percentage faster than the other to take the port. 

Thank you to make doublons re-appear in the economy missions - doublons were very hard to get at some point and for us players that has limited time to play it is good to have put this back into the game.

Though On your server pve there shouldn't be any pvp right? So no players against players? Why is it then there is the loki rune? Please give me an justification on this feature because if you have players acountering players on the server pve it destroys the whole purpose of having a pve server. Doesn't it?

To add to that I noticed the change of the captain's rank of the NPC when the loki rune was used - Therefore I knew it was a player - and to no tell lies the NPC and player does not play the same. Imagine a new player trying to know the game in the pve server and by surprise (because the new player won't automatically look at the NPC change of rank in battle) gets a veteran - The veteran can outsail and easily sink this new player. This new player will then have a bad perspective and a wrong point of view of the pve server. 

I know that making the game perfect is impossible for all captains and there will always be players unliking the changes of the game - But the power to make a change and make players happier is still in your hands. Hope you guys will make a change for the better.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Paulo de Antigua

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Paulo de Antigua

[Emanon]

9 hours ago, admin said:

Loki could have opened a door to a consensual PVP

And that would have been great ! I believe consencual PvP is a highway to success. Why not say so in the first place ? Why not implement it on that way in the first place ? What you did was force-feeding PvP to PvE players without giving them an explanation as to why.

I assure you that this is a good idea, but say it ! talk about it, communicate !

Make it so that if you have a Loki rune in ship hold, you can be targeted by a player using a Loki rune. That's giving consent, entering a battle with a Loki in hold. Have a message appear, saying a player took command of an enemy ship, and there you go ! A popular improvement to the game.

Cheers !

[Emanon]

2 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

If you had prepared them with some more clear words and a warning "this is a test and it will take place for a week", the reaction probably would have been less hostile. But it happened out of the blue and against how they believed the server would be all about. You have to admit, quite a shock.

Admin does have some communication issues, and they're quite easy to solve : talk to your community ! It doesn't have to be an Us vs. Them.

[Destraex]

9 hours ago, admin said:

There will be no poll

Loki could have opened a door to a consensual PVP and was supposed to increase variety on the Peace server. We do not see any roads like this based on feedback to this experiment. Peace server should not have any players on the opposite side, its against the spirit of peace and friendship. 

I would have said that Loki being non-consensual PVP is not a great example or test of the peace server populations keen ness for some PVP. 

A fair few of us from when I have been talking would not mind the consensual PVP zone opened up. But I must admit a fair amount are also solidly against a move like this. Why? I think because they think it will bring disruptive personalities from the PVP server. But I do not think that will affect people too much unless in chat other than making people stay away from that little PVP zone circle. Where those of us who like a bit of PVP dabbling may choose to meet and duel there. Leaving the others in peace to trade and fight AI in peace.

I would also venture that things are not so black and white (PVP or PVE). There are a lot of people who are not for or against PVP or PVE. Liking both. But more in the middle ground like me (these days I cannot even make PVE port battles most times) when it comes to wanting to choose when they have the time to have a PVP battle. Hence the PVP zone on the peace server idea.

My 2C anyways

[Antonnio]

Was it already removed from the pve server?

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

1 hour ago, Antonnio said:

Was it already removed from the pve server?

No. There was no (tiny) update with maintenance, meaning, game is untouched for the time being.

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

1 hour ago, Destraex said:

I would have said that Loki being non-consensual PVP is not a great example or test of the peace server populations keen ness for some PVP. 

A fair few of us from when I have been talking would not mind the consensual PVP zone opened up. But I must admit a fair amount are also solidly against a move like this. Why? I think because they think it will bring disruptive personalities from the PVP server. But I do not think that will affect people too much unless in chat other than making people stay away from that little PVP zone circle. Where those of us who like a bit of PVP dabbling may choose to meet and duel there. Leaving the others in peace to trade and fight AI in peace.

I would also venture that things are not so black and white (PVP or PVE). There are a lot of people who are not for or against PVP or PVE. Liking both. But more in the middle ground like me (these days I cannot even make PVE port battles most times) when it comes to wanting to choose when they have the time to have a PVP battle. Hence the PVP zone on the peace server idea.

My 2C anyways

My consensual duel concept is the key to this. People are showing they are free for the asking, and still can decline, according to this:

Devs really only need to pick the cherries off the tree. And hearvest season is all year around.

[Sir Texas Sir]

10 hours ago, admin said:

This attitude shows a simple thing. Peace servers treats the whole situation as us vs them. For some reason it was treated as a fight not a cooperation. 
We deployed LOKI on PVP first and it was active there for some time. Everyone knew it would be also eventually working on the PVE server - nobody said a word. We always said we will deploy it on pve for testing. For testing means - giving it out to see if people like it or not. Most peace server colleagues treated it as insult , a war, instead of experiment. Some abused the devs some review bombed the game. 

Kinda glade you called them out on this, they do seem to (not all them) act like this when you do or suggest anything that actually might make the game better.  I'm still strong on thinking two servers is a waste and we should have them merge and have PvE zones on the one server (map is just way to big for our numbers), but the very few numbers they have cry.....US time zone still has more players online that PvE EU time zones so they are a minority of the game.  I do see a lot of old PvP players on PvE cause they did not want to relevel up and RvR and such just wasn't that important to them.  Give them reason to return to PvP and I'm sure many would.  

With all that though I do think a PvE only server should not have PvP of any type.   One way you can solve this on both servers is to make a flag/tag that a player can have active or not.  simply

CLICK box if you want Loki Battles.

Than now folks that want to have this interesting new part of the game can have it or not.   I have yet to have some one join the little few battles I done on PvP so far but waiting for such to happen.   

 

PS:  Isn't AI toned down on PvE server? I always hear folks say they are way easier on that server compared to PvP?

[Jan van Santen]

19 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

....hear... say 

bingo

[Destraex]

If their was a flag for pvp or peace on the pvp server traders would not be killed anymore. Because all trading would be done in peace. I don’t have a problem with this as I don’t think the trading is working very well. I think most trading on pvp is still done with no escort and knowing they are no contest dead if caught. Which happens a lot. So people are basically just giving away kills knowing no help will get to them in time. They may as well have a no pvp flag on them. You could call it a flag of neutrality. The reality of this conundrum though is that there are a lot of people that love attacking trade. Perhaps a better idea would be to have a killed once a night perk. Which only allowed traders to be killed once each maint cycle to let them get on with it in peace. 

On warships I guess a flag allowing pvp or not would be great. Allowing both pvp and pve populations to co exist. You want a peaceful night of fighting ai in your limited game time window. You can now do it. Blood pressure too high, doctors says you should stop playing? Now you can. When you want to join pvp to help the nation? Untick that pve box. 

 

Practical or a dream? It would certainly make for less targets for the hunters on pvp. So probably not practical.

 

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

11 minutes ago, JG14_Cuzn said:

Merge the servers already.  

Why waste What limited resources the devs have on a server of grannies who get their panties in a bunch every time a cannon ball flies their way? 
 

 

No.

And when you are trying to be funny, PvP hero, at least try to write understandable jokes. The expression you wanted to use is "who wet their panties". Take this hint from Grandpa.

[Despe]

19 hours ago, Leon BocaNegra said:

Es alucinante el estar intentando abrirle las casillas a un mercante...que no es cosa fácil y que se te meta un jugador cogiendo la NPC

pa que necesitas abrirle las casillas a un mercante en el PVE si nadie puede atacarte?

[Salty Sails]

2 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

No.

And when you are trying to be funny, PvP hero, at least try to write understandable jokes. The expression you wanted to use is "who wet their panties". Take this hint from Grandpa.

To be honest, I don’t know how many players are online on PVE Server at primetime. 

Its not a question about any promises who made years ago, it’s a question of money! 

If both servers will be low for longer time in future, I guess there is no other solution to keep the game alive. 

Ask the US, Aussie guys, when Global and EU Server were merged! Now they are playing with a damn high ping, but they still play this game. 

Map is too big for 300-400 players! Ow is empty, but Devs will probably find a way, to keep game alive. 

[admin]

3 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

No.

@Sir Texas Sir is correct. It was a good thing to call you out. 

We always considered Peace server players our supporters and part of the community. 
We turned back on our plan to close pve servers after launch because of that.
Last 2 months we spent significant amount of time making the Port battles and investment work for the PVE server.
We gave a head start making loki work on on PvP server first and actually mentioned that loki will be brought to Peace server for testing

The outrage on testing the feature was unacceptable. And the outrage culture you guys shown will just make us worry and afraid to bring anything new to peace server.  And as we said before  - loki was opening a door to consensual pvp. But this door is closed because nobody will give me resources and programming hours to experiment with new features on the Peace server because of risks of outrage bombs.

[Custard]

I am unconvinced, unless it's a language problem, how the Loki mechanic could be considered a route to anything consensual.

I consider it a way for players to troll others on the War server let alone on the Peace server all it's ever going to do is upset people I do not see an upside.