nerf dissatisfaction with delivery missions.

[Malcolm3]

2 hours ago, Raekur said:

Here is the really big downside to the loot requiring you to capture and switch in order to split the loot. You need to capture and take command of the trader to split the loot, then switch back to your main ship. In doing so you will find that ALL of your knowledge slots have been cleared. 

That was fixed

 

Quote

 

Cumulative hot fix notes for Seasonal Update

• You can now split hold in the target ship

 

 

2 hours ago, Raekur said:

To test the ability of trade I created an account on the peace server and am only able to generate about 80k per HOUR running trade. While this is done using a single indiaman, it took me over a week to generate enough reals using smaller traders to get the 300K to purchase the ship

And ships are expensive enough that times for a new player and guns and modules much more expensive. But we can't bring delivery missions back to previous value, as everyone will start doing them in large scale again

[Raekur]

10 minutes ago, Malcolm3 said:

And ships are expensive enough that times for a new player and guns and modules much more expensive. But we can't bring delivery missions back to previous value, as everyone will start doing them in large scale again

What was wrong with the delivery missions before? For some reason the general belief is that it is the delivery missions that drive the cost of things. When it takes over 1.6 Million real to get a level 2 ship yard and the level 1 resources to start building I think the delivery missions are a very small part of the pricing of things. Add to this the any losses incurred while trying to move resources back to your shipyard and the amount of reals spent on building up your craft level just to be able to produce frigates. Now with delivery missions being near worthless and moving trade requiring several hours to make even 100k I would expect the costs to actually increase to cover the time spent and to cover losses. So ship pricing i expect to remain where it is but the number sold will decrease or you will see the market flooded with captured ships that are barely worth sailing. It seems that the most vocal of the forum are established players who seem to have forgotten how difficult it is for a new player to even begin to get to a point of stability. The general BS argument was that trade missions have no risk which is false at best when you consider that replacing a ship costs time and money just to have it destroyed by some 15 knot player who is rewarded by a kill mission for killing a trader. How much risk is there to the raider in a trinc or a endymion facing off against a trader brig? You want to talk about near zero risk value, try looking at it from that end of the argument. 

[Malcolm3]

28 minutes ago, Raekur said:

What was wrong with the delivery missions before?

Delivery missions were designed just for new player, so he can be able to earn some money when he has empty coffers. But with unprofitable enough and risky trade and high prices for establishing crafting base they became the main method of acquiring money for much more players (FX Bermuda-Kidds and Kidds-Turtle Cay routes), contributing to overall problems of game economy.

Now they are nerfed and while it's OK for old players, for new ones it makes the life harder, because prices are still the same (and high), especially for repairs, and there is no market for basic books and basic modules (how many Congreve Sights and Basic Tackles you see in shops with cheap prices?) - FX outfitting basic admiralty Privateer with carros (with repair, but without modules) will cost you around 60-70k reales.

Actually to get the things fixed and get rid of delivery missions as the main source of income they have to do the following:

• Nerf delivery missions (done)
• Establish some system of supporting new players (they are working on it now, at least in means of protection)
• Creating workable economy, so trading can be more profitable than delivery missions (hope it will be done next year and early)

P.S. Passenger delivery is almost at no risk, with cargo delivery it depends

[Raekur]

Where was it stated that delivery missions were for new players? As far as risk, how is any delivery mission of less risk than a Trinc or Endymion attacking a trader?  The only thing the devs have done so far is reduce the income of traders, pretty much eliminate the sale of crafted ships and provide more income to pvp players by increasing the rewards for sinking ships. Even the players that used to enjoy going after just NPC ships now have to contend with a forced pvp via that stupid loki crap.  Oh right, its not "forced' because the player chose to attack the npc ship. End result, players leave because the way they wanted to play was either altered to provide more content for a select group or what made the game entertaining was modified to the point of being too stressful.

 

[Raekur]

Oh and a reason that trade runs are still more profit than a delivery mission, you can continue making trade runs whereas the delivery missions are once a day. So trade runs will yield more money than a delivery mission, provided you dont get intercepted, but that risk is equal regardless.

[Georg Fromm]

I would be grateful to everyone involved if it were not always speak about dealers and trade. In the game, there are almost only forwarders who bring tradegoods that comes from nowhere, from A to B. The risk here tends towards 0, if you also use hijacked merchant ships. You can drive the things without hesitation afk. The only thing you can lose is time, a good, which is of course very valuable for many players.

[Stars and Stripes]

REAL Trade goods values should be increased and the rewards for trading in 'real' goods should be worthwhile.

Ports need to be stocked for traders to pick up and deliver REAL stuff, in a realistic way.

The trade 'missions' are fine now. you can make cash if you need to.

More traders in the OW means more fun and more PVP.

[Celtiberofrog]

Hey all,

As mentioned so many time for ages, new players need to see concrete progress generated by their gaming hours.

NA is a game of patience for sure, but it must be fruitfull from its first discovery period otherwise (most gamers are impatient now a day) peeps will give up.

If NA would allow new players to get good reals incomes, from PvE fights or trading, it would balance "satisfaction Vs gaming hours". 

Nevermind if experienced players would also get advantage from it, they'll get richer easier ? well, if it first pleases new players and keep them playing, it'd be positive. 

 

Dev's, you managed to create a large player tank in early development stages, then you optimized NA leaning on this player population.

This playerbase was built because of much easier mechanics/economy by that time.

Don't you think, now that NA is released, that same recipe (of easier incomes) could be applied for new players ? It looks crucial to me.

 

The difficulty ladders are very large in NA, why not starting from very easy (to grab players interest) and then go slowly to harder & much harder levels ?

New players will still get sunk easily by veterans but they would rebuilt easier and keep faith ! 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Celtiberofrog

[Conte D. Catellani]

Is not possible to make more trader's fleet instead warship fleets? Or made a mix of them?

[Conte D. Catellani]

7 minutes ago, Celtiberofrog said:

Hey all,

As mentioned so many time for ages, new players need to see concrete progress generated by their gaming hours.

NA is a game of patience for sure, but it must be fruitfull from its first discovery period otherwise (most gamers are impatient now a day) peeps will give up.

If NA would allow new players to get good reals incomes, from PvE fights or trading, it would balance "satisfaction Vs gaming hours". 

Nevermind if experienced players would also get advantage from it too, they'll get richer easier ? well, if it first pleases new players and keep them playing, it'd be positive. 

 

Dev's, you managed to create a large player tank in early development stages, then you optimized NA leaning on this player population.

This playerbase was built because of much easier mechanics/economy by that time.

Don't you think, now that NA is released, that same recipe (of easier incomes) could be applied for new players ? It looks crucial to me.

 

The difficulty ladders are very large in NA, why not starting from very easy (to grab players interest) and then go slowly to harder & much harder levels ?

New players will still get sunk easily by veterans but they would rebuilt easier and keep faith ! 

That's is perfect, that's the point of view of a new player like me

[erelkivtuadrater]

3 hours ago, Raekur said:

Where was it stated that delivery missions were for new players? As far as risk, how is any delivery mission of less risk than a Trinc or Endymion attacking a trader?  The only thing the devs have done so far is reduce the income of traders, pretty much eliminate the sale of crafted ships and provide more income to pvp players by increasing the rewards for sinking ships. Even the players that used to enjoy going after just NPC ships now have to contend with a forced pvp via that stupid loki crap.  Oh right, its not "forced' because the player chose to attack the npc ship. End result, players leave because the way they wanted to play was either altered to provide more content for a select group or what made the game entertaining was modified to the point of being too stressful.

 

imo i would be a thad more salty if someone sunk/captured my indiaman with parisian furniture then my traders brig with cargo mission worth the same price as selling the parisian furniture.

[Angus MacDuff]

6 hours ago, Raekur said:

The general BS argument was that trade missions have no risk which is false at best when you consider that replacing a ship costs time and money just to have it destroyed by some 15 knot player who is rewarded by a kill mission for killing a trader.

Two missions actually.  The argument that trade missions are risk-free is made because you don't have to buy or build a TBrig.  Just go out (in any ship) and capture one.  You get their cargo (which is sometimes a hockey sock full of doubloons), some money and some XP.  For the new player that you are concerned about, this should be their early game goal.  They are not building shipyards yet.  The first thing I did on my 1st day was go out in my cutter and capture a TBrig (then realised that I didn't have the fleet perk!!).  New players should not be focused on doing these trade missions as it just turns them into perpetual victims.  I want to wait and see what Devs come up with in their trading improvements patch before I ask them to modify the missions any more. 

 

2 hours ago, Raekur said:

Oh and a reason that trade runs are still more profit than a delivery mission, you can continue making trade runs whereas the delivery missions are once a day. So trade runs will yield more money than a delivery mission, provided you dont get intercepted, but that risk is equal regardless.

This statement ^^ is based upon how YOU have decided to do your eco.  Many players have found other ways to do it and consider it quite lucrative.  There's more than one way to take the skin off a back with a cat (see what I did there)

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

imo i would be a thad more salty if someone sunk/captured my indiaman with parisian furniture then my traders brig with cargo mission worth the same price as selling the parisian furniture.

I would hope that your Indiaman would be in a heavily armed/escorted convoy then.  The current meta is to run unarmed, unescorted traders on these missions.  Many just surrender when tagged, go home and grab another trader/mission.  It shouldn't be worth a lot of money as it is effortless and mindless.  I'd love to see the statistics of how many trade missions are completed vs intercepted.

[Aquillas]

28 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I'd love to see the statistics of how many trade missions are completed vs intercepted.

Up to trade mission nerf, I had a afk traders Brig sailing every evening, during around 3 hours at West Europe prime time. Making 2 to 5 deliveries every evening in an old computer (5 fps).

This ship was intercepted around once a week. Surrending without fighting only when I was in fight on the main account. Sunk at every interception,  of course, but she carried medium guns and stuff for repairing one time hull, sails and crew. Repairs were consumed during fights and allow to increase damages made to attackers (they will consume more reps than what they will earn in fight)... 

I temporary stopped doing it not due to nerf of missions, but because of activity on the main account requesting more attention.

[EliotXII]

3 hours ago, Conte D. Catellani said:

That's is perfect, that's the point of view of a new player like me

and what am I?! a frog?!  😑

 

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by EliotXII

[LegoLarry]

 I really don't get all the anx about delivery missions, people complained about not enough targets in OW and the missions provide that with easy kill trader brigs.

As for economy it's all magic beans (worthless beans to be counted and used),  NA is a grind fest as it is and low player retention so does it really matter? 

What i see are players who have used delivery missions to get established and only now they grumble :D, it's all really sad tbh.

Also they seem to be complaining that they are encountering people insta surrendering thier trade brig when attacked by warships lol...... why should they bother to fight?  I had 6 guys in 4th rate/5th rates attack my lone T-brig, and yes i surrendered one i would have stayed and bothered to give resistance....... no point fighting, and am bemused why they all attacked hardly worth doing (both in terms of "fun" and "reward")  except for shits and giggles.

 

Personally i don't care either way, but for newer players (which we can't keep), all that nerfing deliveries does is make their grind harder and won't aid game pop overall at all imo.

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by LegoLarry

[erelkivtuadrater]

I did some trading today just to check it. I traded livestock from Nuevitas to Pitts town, journey took me probably 10-15 mins sail one way because i had the wind gust.

Traders Brig, Sailing from point A to B took 15 minutes with best wind and 2x wind gusts.

Buy price:

- 14 756 Reals + 10% tax = 16 232 Reals

Sell price:

- 24 430 Reals - 10% tax = 21 987 Reals

Profit: 21 987 Reals - 16 232 Reals = 5755 Reals.

 

Now i dont complain on the tax or the items itself, but sailing almost the same distance from nuevitas to la desconocida would give me something around 30 000 Reals in rewards, so unless you are in the clan that owns the port you want to trade with and have a indiaman with low risk of getting caught there are just so many cons in trading goods compared to the trading missions, which den indirectly takes away half of the economy content.

The only thing worth doing is if you capture trade ships and sell their goods at a port which consumes the item

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by erelkivtuadrater

[Stars and Stripes]

On 11/20/2019 at 4:10 PM, LegoLarry said:

I had 6 guys in 4th rate/5th rates attack my lone T-brig, and yes i surrendered one i would have stayed and bothered to give resistance....... no point fighting, and am bemused why they all attacked hardly worth doing (both in terms of "fun" and "reward")  except for shits and giggles.

 

Personally i don't care either way, but for newer players (which we can't keep), all that nerfing deliveries does is make their grind harder and won't aid game pop overall at all imo.

I never surrender. 

Your ships probably going down but you do some damage and earn exp in the trader to.  A Trader with knowledge slots open can be much tougher.

It's really good practise depowering to avoid chain, trying to get a rake in, angling your armour etc. 

Turn it into a positive. I was jumped by a pfrig and I managed to depower rake him and escape by tacking into the wind and using my reps that in also carry. That felt better than most of my kills do.

Turn a negative into a positive.

[Nooop]

My vote is for eliminating trade/passenger quests.

Creating so much money out of thin air feels off. I had a warehouse stuffed with barrels and Indiamen docked with barrels. Fleets of 4 Indiamen filled with barrels and passengers. The micromanagement was tedious.

As a replacement, players could use a system similar to contracts. Create a package of goods and a destination and reward and put it in a special tab in the buy menu. Someone pics it up and gets the money when delivered. 

[EliotXII]

My vote goes to the delivery buffet for 112K max value, and buff the PvE fighting reward for 150 to 250K.
Doing this helps newcomers starting out in the game, helps those who have industry, and encourages those who like PvE (instead of obligating and bugging the loot)

Edited November 28, 2019 by EliotXII

[EliotXII]

I think that was the goal from the beginning with the nerf of delivery missions, to inflate the market. 😒😢