How to get rid of battle instances

[van Veen]

This is a suggestion for Naval Action 2, as I do not think this feature is feasible to be implemented in the current game. 

Problem

The fact that the game requires battle instance causes many problems in terms of gameplay balancing:

• Different geometrical scaling of open world and battle instance
• Different travel speeds
• Tagging mechanism (dragging circles, ROE, timers, cooldown)
• Join conditions (timers, BR limits, nation war status, join circles)
• Battle closure rules (teleport to outpost, invisibility and speed bonus after battle, cooldown timer)
• "Disappearing" in battle instance (camping, ganking, griefing/kiting)

Solution

All this could be avoided if there was just one instance. Obviously, the open world is currently too large for traveling at battle instance speed, so I thought this could be resolved like this:

• Players can adapt their travel speed using their mouse wheel zoom function
  • The further you zoom out, the faster you get, let's say 4 different speeds: spd1 (slowest, 1x) to spd4 (fastest, e.g. 4x)
  • You cannot get faster than spd1 when an enemy player is closeby (radius1, e.g. 2x cannon range) who is "ready to attack"
  • You cannot get faster than spd2 when an enemy player is closeby (radius1)
  • You cannot get faster than spd3 when a player is visible (radius2, e.g. horizon range)
  • spd4 can only achieved when there is no player visible (radius2)
• Zoom levels activate different functions
  • spd4 (x4.0)
    • like open world sailing right now
  • spd3 (x2.5)
    • ship nationality identification
  • spd2 (x1.5)
    • ship type and player name identification
    • exchanging messages between players
  • spd1 (x1.0)
    • battle features (cannons, crew assignment)
    • advanced sailing mechanics like in battle instance (heel, leeway, ...)
• "Ready to attack"
  • Does not apply to friendly nationalities
  • Can be switched off by the player (is not seeking combat)

 

This way, you can travel empty seas with great speed. When near enemy players, you open fire. No need to tag or join a battle. 

Players automatically cluster around hotspots, because empty ocean will be crossed fast and hostile players slow each other down. 

The logic gap between "disappearing" in battle instance and open world is resolved. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by van Veen

[Corona Lisa]

28 minutes ago, van Veen said:

• Different travel speeds

That would still be the case, which is why I dislike this idea.

 

I want Admins Naval Action as battle royale game all in one instance

[Slim McSauce]

It's such a difficult thing to do from a technical standpoint. NA being as wide as an ocean, shallow as a puddle I would hope to see some focusing down into a smaller map where you can flesh out core sailing and not require any version of Over World. Though I think the Open World isn't a negative think, it just has to be made to work. My problem with OverWorld is it's not it's own game. It's a buffer to the battle. It's not like a Total War Over World where it carries it's own unique mechanics, almost entirely it's own game.

Over World can be made to be fun and not a chore or a buffer, but it takes skill. Lucky for us Gamelabs is my second choice for someone to make an OW style RTS map behind Creative Assembly. I mean their new Ultimate General/Ultimate Admiral looks absolutely masterful. That in my opinion is how NA OW should look, but then again I would like to see NA 2 or the spiritual successor to NA focus down to be seamless, Caribbean only, high focus on light ships combat, marines, musket fire, deck guns, swivels, the whole nine pieces of eight.

I think fans really long for the visceral sailing experience. The OW is fun but it's perpetually tiresome to maintain. The map, RvR, it's such a chore to balance not only for the devs but for the players to keep in mind not to obliterate their enemy and cause server-wide morale loss. I would really like to see the next iteration be a bit more personal, heavy focus on the men aboard not just your ships as entities.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

1:1 scale even if with a more restricted area map, say Bahamas, or Eastern Mediterranean, or even just the Lakes during 1812 war.

Simulation of actually taking advantage of the wind by controlling the rig as much as possible considering tech possibilities, not abstract accelerated speed. Same with gunnery. Would love less of mmo MP and more of simulator MP even if it means losing the great open world. Even if at the expense of being a big MMO but becoming a "big online war server" like other simulators running for 250 players and resetting at the end of the "war".

Technically it is totally possible. Some projects being developed already do it at a grand scale of 1:1 scale and tens of thousands of unique connections at one spot, or anywhere in the world without time dilation ( eve ) or true instancing ( most mmos ) but actually being seamless.

[jodgi]

1 hour ago, van Veen said:

spd4 (x4.0)

• like open world sailing right now

 

OW Accel is way, way higher than that now.

Any speed diff between travel and fighting is problematic for the fighting part. The tension created by the break between OW and instances has been so severe I can't understand why we would try that again.

Admin has hinted towards NA2 with a 1:1 world. I can deal with spending 15 to 30 min setting up an attack or defense, but I'm worried that too many people have their limits at around 5 min before the fun should start.

My experience with NA:OW since 2016 had made me list heavily towards making NA as accommodating as possible. The current club for the precious few makes me a sad sailor.

#liberateNA

[Koltes]

I always believed that gameplay should have been local in NA.
Take EVE Online. Yes you can jump and go to another part of the space, but it will take you lots of effort. Especially logistics. So you really play only around few star systems. Very locally.

NA should be one instance supported by multiple servers. Sailing speed should have no speed cap. Ships speeds slightly increased like it was before.
Fightings will then be very local. RVR more of a local character. You wont see one nation all over the map. You will see lots of fights in one area

This all your manual sailing applies in OW... well there ill be no OW anymore. Wind is randomly changes slightly and jumps dramatically once or twice a day.

Bang! Tagging is gone
Bang! 25 vs 25 limitation is gone
Bang! Larger battles (must be supported by multiple servers
Bang! 4/5th of the exploits gone

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by koltes

[van Veen]

14 hours ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

That would still be the case, which is why I dislike this idea.

Yes, but the different travel speeds do not affect other players. If there are players around, speed is reduced and harmonized. This ensures clustering up while allowing fast traveling when there is no one around. And if there is no one in the area, it does not affect gameplay. 

[van Veen]

6 hours ago, Wraith said:

I don't really understand why we couldn't just have fast travel between coastal instances.

Agreed. But setting a fixed distance to shore still affects player interaction in my point of view. Anyway, your idea might work in current Naval Action. My suggestion definitely is beyond it. 

[Corona Lisa]

3 hours ago, van Veen said:

Yes, but the different travel speeds do not affect other players. If there are players around, speed is reduced and harmonized. This ensures clustering up while allowing fast traveling when there is no one around. And if there is no one in the area, it does not affect gameplay. 

How does it not affect me if Im in a battle and enemies are coming in 4x speed to help my victim? For me it sounds pretty similar to the current system, only that you dont have different instances for fights which makes anti ganking mechancis actually even worse since battles technically stay open forever for all sides.

[Guest]

if they are gonna make a NA 2, i would advise them to make in the 1700, in the age of piracy during the queen annes war, carronades wasnt as developed and wouldnt be meta like we have today (todays meta is a thing because the carronade design of that era that carronade frigates and brigs was a thing)

[Galt]

Just shrink the map. Make it Jamaica, Haiti, southern Cuba and Navasse. The map would still take a good while to get around, there would be no need for nations (just clans,) and you would get battles of more than 50 ships, which would be nice. KoC and I talked this through months ago. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Galt

[Earl of Grey]

2 hours ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

How does it not affect me if Im in a battle and enemies are coming in 4x speed to help my victim? For me it sounds pretty similar to the current system, only that you dont have different instances for fights which makes anti ganking mechancis actually even worse since battles technically stay open forever for all sides.

Its really the same as we have now, Just the crossing from the OW to the "instance" (Zone with lower Speed) is softer.

And it will cause other proplems too: what about 50 players need an hour to sail in their Capital because of a Basic cutter that is spying/ideling there?

What abaut ab basic Cutter that is shadowing you Portbattlefleet, slowing down the whole fleet ... you need a RL-Week to get to the Portbattles ...

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Gilles de Rais

[van Veen]

On 9/26/2019 at 12:16 PM, Jon Snow lets go said:

How does it not affect me if Im in a battle and enemies are coming in 4x speed to help my victim? For me it sounds pretty similar to the current system, only that you dont have different instances for fights which makes anti ganking mechancis actually even worse since battles technically stay open forever for all sides.

 

On 9/25/2019 at 6:03 PM, van Veen said:

spd4 can only achieved when there is no player visible (radius2)

The idea is that player speed adjusts itself when there are other players in the area. So yes, players converge upon each other, but it is not possible to overtake a player with greater speed. The proposed convergence is intended to get everyone faster into action. It certainly needs fine tuning, but it would work. It's a lot better than the mind bogging "disappearing in" and "popping out of" battle instances mechanic that is now in place. 

Edited September 27, 2019 by van Veen

[van Veen]

21 hours ago, Gilles de Rais said:

Its really the same as we have now, Just the crossing from the OW to the "instance" (Zone with lower Speed) is softer.

And it will cause other proplems too: what about 50 players need an hour to sail in their Capital because of a Basic cutter that is spying/ideling there?

What abaut ab basic Cutter that is shadowing you Portbattlefleet, slowing down the whole fleet ... you need a RL-Week to get to the Portbattles ...

 

Yes, for sure engaging and slowing down other players should be related to BR or something else. It's the same issue with griefing/tagging we have right now. But to be honest, if that Basic Cutter wants to engage, just sink him and carry on!