Hotfix for patch 35 - 11 September

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Admin is asking for some historical records for Ocean. We know that Endy was one of the fastest frigates but she is slower than Hercules, a ship known for what?

Well Endymion is currently our fastest heavy frigate. Admin is considering improving L'Oceans sailing characteristics if there is a historical precedent for it. Pretty simple. Also Hercules actually has a pretty interesting history, you should look into it. She's rather famous in her own way. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hércules_(1814)

Edited September 11, 2019 by Guest

[Sea Archer]

For the game small ships must be faster and more agile than than the big ones. The problem occurs when the big ships can be modified by woods and mods that make them faster than the oak build small ones.

We still need incentives to sail small and medium ships, else the game will be boring.

... and I hope the devs will bring real water depth in the game, even if that is a long term project. @admin will you? Maybe as a Christmas gift 2020?

[Marquês do Bonfim]

The reason why historically accuracy was ignored in few ships, is because they're not assigned to us like they were back then, we pretty much craft or capture the ship we want and sail it, so the balance between them for a fair gameplay is a must-have. I too wish there were more historically accurate systems, such as actually being able to choose between being a Naval Officer, Merchant or Privateer and serve the nation as the actual position I chose, but since there's no option beyond Naval Officer, I can't complain, It would be hard to change that now.

Some things that I wish was different aswell, was the possibility to recruit officers, and your crew choice would also benefit the status of the ship. But instead we have upgrades.

Choosing your officers and crew would benefit speed/trimming (being making sails faster, trimming to gain 1 or 2 knots more than maximum), repairs, gunnery (being reload OR accuracy), boarding, etc.

But perhaps, ships shouldn't be based off existing/historical ships, but makings. A frigate should be called a frigate, not a Belle Poule, not a Endymion, but a frigate. By crafting them, we should've been able to choose how many cannons (based off the maximum, we could refit it with less cannons than the maximum), so if the Endy carries 52 max, we could refit her with 48 or 42, giving her more speed and maneuverability, but less broadside power. By making a system like that, naming your own ship would've been way more accurate than right now, with 20 ships of the same serving in a battle, which limits our imagination and immersion.

And I still believe with a ship system like that, once the officer/player reaches a certain level, the Admiralty should assign him a ship based off his rank, and players shouldn't be able to sail other ships or have a collection of ships, which by the way, gives no purpose or sentiment of losing it on a battle, it makes the game a grind, and makes people not care about them at all.

Anyways, I could go on and on but I don't think the devs really want to read these type of suggestions, since they got their own vision for the game, which isn't clear for us yet, but I digress.

[admin]

23 minutes ago, Portuguese Privateer said:

 

Anyways, I could go on and on but I don't think the devs really want to read these type of suggestions, 

the long term vision for this and future games in this series is to gradually move everything to the captain and separate the skill of sailing from boat stats. We have sailed real boats extensively for practice last 12-18 months and this is the major missing peace

Skilled captain of the age of sail will push his crappy 8 knot boat to sail 15 knots, by for example using gales, wind patches and wave to speed up and individual sails to push for more speed constantly adjusting the boat to sail faster. While an unskilled captain will probably capsize or will be in irons half the time. We are somewhat afraid to break the careful balance by introducing some things that could be added (like capsizing with too much sail), or removing wind indicators and speed indicators (you can only feel the real direction and its not static with wind changing constantly forcing you to turn slightly constantly) and you cannot really know real true speed  (even with knot line)

 

[Iroquois Confederacy]

3 minutes ago, admin said:

the long term vision for this and future games in this series is to gradually move everything to the captain and separate the skill of sailing from boat stats. We have sailed real boats extensively for practice last 12-18 months and this is the major missing peace

Skilled captain of the age of sail will push his crappy 8 knot boat to sail 15 knots, by for example using gales, wind patches and wave to speed up and individual sails. While an unskilled captain will probably capsize or will be in irons half the time. We are somewhat afraid to break the careful balance by introducing some things that could be added (like capsizing with too much sail), or removing wind indicators and speed indicators (you can only feel the real direction and its not static) and you cannot really know real speed (even with knot line)

All of this.  Also... I need to talk to my boss about why we don't do anything fun.

[Marquês do Bonfim]

I appreciate the efford you guys put in, the reason I mentioned you guys wouldn't care about reading my suggestions is because many of them would literally change the dynamics and the gameplay itself from what it is right now. I've been suggesting those types of things from few months now. I've been suggesting the adittion of the Letter of Marquee for pirates (which by the way, shouldn't be a Nation, but a status) to become privateers for the nation of their choosing. But because this game doesn't emphazise NATION, but CLAN, we don't have national missions, campaigns, port battles and RvRs are only done because of clans, so I don't see how it would be implemented.

And how can you change a game people are already accustomed to playing for something completely different, even more after release...? That's my dilema.

[Farrago]

6 minutes ago, admin said:

the long term vision for this and future games in this series is to gradually move everything to the captain and separate the skill of sailing from boat stats. We have sailed real boats extensively for practice last 12-18 months and this is the major missing peace

Skilled captain of the age of sail will push his crappy 8 knot boat to sail 15 knots, by for example using gales, wind patches and wave to speed up and individual sails to push for more speed constantly adjusting the boat to sail faster. While an unskilled captain will probably capsize or will be in irons half the time. We are somewhat afraid to break the careful balance by introducing some things that could be added (like capsizing with too much sail), or removing wind indicators and speed indicators (you can only feel the real direction and its not static) and you cannot really know real speed (even with knot line)

 

Not only do I like what you're talking about with the concept of Captain skill development vs ship modification but I am thrilled to see you use a term like long-term vision. It means a lot to those hundreds of us who have stuck it out over the years because we saw its potential to see confirmation that there is still long term vision on your staff. Thank you and fair sails.

[Marquês do Bonfim]

Although, many of my suggestions are specifically for the PVE server.

[Doug Maoz]

35 minutes ago, admin said:

Skilled captain of the age of sail will push his crappy 8 knot boat to sail 15 knots, by for example using gales, wind patches and wave to speed up and individual sails to push for more speed constantly adjusting the boat to sail faster.

So we are getting customizable sail plans then? =P

I would finally like to set that jib sail that the frigate/pirate frigate is missing...

[Sir Texas Sir]

@admin we use to have a nice balace of the 1st rates:  Santi Heavy Alpha, L'Ocean Tank, Victory agile/speed.  Now it seems Santi has all the stats.  It shouldn't be the best when it was the oldest and most out dated of the three ships.   Can we not nerf the Victory into just being an expensive 2nd rate?  Let it keep the old speed?  So it can be the fast under gun of the three 1st rates.  Used more for hit and runs compared to the others.

5 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Dont forget to buff pavel, essex, frigate... They arent competitive ships.

Same can go for the Pavel and the 2nds, it's way undergun with the deck of 6 lb's (3 decks show it had 18's at one time instead) and it's almost one of the slowest.  Same goes for the Essex it's got no chasers and is pretty darn slow compared to other 5 rates (Renon needs it's speed back too).  Give a reason why folks would use this other ships instead of the main ones?

[Karvala]

2 hours ago, admin said:

the long term vision for this and future games in this series is to gradually move everything to the captain and separate the skill of sailing from boat stats. We have sailed real boats extensively for practice last 12-18 months and this is the major missing peace

Skilled captain of the age of sail will push his crappy 8 knot boat to sail 15 knots, by for example using gales, wind patches and wave to speed up and individual sails to push for more speed constantly adjusting the boat to sail faster. While an unskilled captain will probably capsize or will be in irons half the time. We are somewhat afraid to break the careful balance by introducing some things that could be added (like capsizing with too much sail), or removing wind indicators and speed indicators (you can only feel the real direction and its not static with wind changing constantly forcing you to turn slightly constantly) and you cannot really know real true speed  (even with knot line)

 

An even playing field where the Captain's skill is the difference would be great.  But please don't do it at the expense of the gear.  Rather, make the gear part of the decision-making, somewhat as it is now, but even more so, so that the Captain may develop skill at sailing particular styles of boats can customise his boat to fit his particular style as much as possible.  The different boats are why many people play and the fantastic boat models, and remarkably good balance across boats that you've achieved, are the key reasons many people want to play and it would be a shame to lose that.

Things like removing speed and wind indicators can easily be made optional with a checkbox in the first place if you're afraid of the likely mutiny.  See how many people choose to use them and what their experience is, before taking them out entirely.  Sometimes these things add to the realism, sometimes they just add to the chore.

 

[Macjimm]

2 hours ago, admin said:

the long term vision for this and future games in this series is to gradually move everything to the captain and separate the skill of sailing from boat stats. We have sailed real boats extensively for practice last 12-18 months and this is the major missing peace

Skilled captain of the age of sail will push his crappy 8 knot boat to sail 15 knots, by for example using gales, wind patches and wave to speed up and individual sails to push for more speed constantly adjusting the boat to sail faster. While an unskilled captain will probably capsize or will be in irons half the time. We are somewhat afraid to break the careful balance by introducing some things that could be added (like capsizing with too much sail), or removing wind indicators and speed indicators (you can only feel the real direction and its not static with wind changing constantly forcing you to turn slightly constantly) and you cannot really know real true speed  (even with knot line)

 

This the most exciting promising news that you have provided since you first began the game.  These type of changes will attract the old players who dreamt about the promise of truly epic experience.

Thanks for sharing this info

 

[Jim Beamreach]

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Same can go for the Pavel and the 2nds, it's way undergun with the deck of 6 lb's (3 decks show it had 18's at one time instead) and it's almost one of the slowest.  Same goes for the Essex it's got no chasers and is pretty darn slow compared to other 5 rates (Renon needs it's speed back too).  Give a reason why folks would use this other ships instead of the main ones?

Yes, i suggested it some time ago, give Ships a Role.

[Macjimm]

1 minute ago, Staunberg said:

Well it both Sound fun, but also a bit to worry abouth. Do like the game is skill based, but also think there is a point, that not should be passed. Games can get to realistic, and even harder to play because of this. So do we end up with a saling simulator and focus of that, ore do we end up with a war game.

Personally I think we are in a good place right now.

Well there are easy fixes to your worries.  Add the realism only as an option.  On "Easy Mode" a player need not risk capsizing or breaking a spar, but would be limited to 8 knots.  Easy mode would show a wind and speed indicator.   The choice of "Advanced Mode" would be more dangerous, but could enable the player to push a ship to 15 knots, if he has enough skill.  Similar to manual sails in a battle instance.  No one is forced to use manual sailing, but it adds speed and agility.

The Dev's vision to reward player  for his skill rather than his ship upgrades could code realism and immersion but could still keep an optional simplified configuration for players who have no interest in learning or challenges.

[Malcolm3]

17 minutes ago, Staunberg said:

So do we end up with a saling simulator and focus of that, ore do we end up with a war game.

Same question. As Devs obviously concentrated on ships' performance and refining battle system, not on the game system as a whole and the things the battles shoud be fought for (except fun and grind).

[Earl of Grey]

9 hours ago, admin said:

the long term vision for this and future games in this series is to gradually move everything to the captain and separate the skill of sailing from boat stats. We have sailed real boats extensively for practice last 12-18 months and this is the major missing peace

Skilled captain of the age of sail will push his crappy 8 knot boat to sail 15 knots, by for example using gales, wind patches and wave to speed up and individual sails to push for more speed constantly adjusting the boat to sail faster. While an unskilled captain will probably capsize or will be in irons half the time. We are somewhat afraid to break the careful balance by introducing some things that could be added (like capsizing with too much sail), or removing wind indicators and speed indicators (you can only feel the real direction and its not static with wind changing constantly forcing you to turn slightly constantly) and you cannot really know real true speed  (even with knot line)

 

Haha, so you found the Stone of wisdom of Computergames? I have read many of such promises, at the end there always were an annoying minigame in the game ... 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Gilles de Rais

[Sea Archer]

11 hours ago, admin said:

the long term vision for this and future games in this series is to gradually move everything to the captain and separate the skill of sailing from boat stats. We have sailed real boats extensively for practice last 12-18 months and this is the major missing peace

Skilled captain of the age of sail will push his crappy 8 knot boat to sail 15 knots, by for example using gales, wind patches and wave to speed up and individual sails to push for more speed constantly adjusting the boat to sail faster. While an unskilled captain will probably capsize or will be in irons half the time. We are somewhat afraid to break the careful balance by introducing some things that could be added (like capsizing with too much sail), or removing wind indicators and speed indicators (you can only feel the real direction and its not static with wind changing constantly forcing you to turn slightly constantly) and you cannot really know real true speed  (even with knot line)

 

I like the idea. Though it is difficult to judge the ships behaviour in wind and waves without feeling them. To implement this in a naval game where you can only judge the current situation by seeing pixels is a bit too much.

I would see these skills more in the way, that every captain will get a seaworthy ship, that does not capsize, if fitted with the standard armament. But he can modify ballast and choose any gun he wants. The result may be a fast ship, that tends to capsize, a ship that will heel much (and therefore might get leaks easily) or a very stable, slow and under gunned vessel, which is easy to sail under all conditions. 

It would be great to have different winds, varying in force, that requires thinking about the sails. Not always full sails.

This together with the water depth would make a fantastic naval game.

[Koltes]

16 hours ago, Serk said:

Makes no sense.  Santissima was a known brick, while Ocean’s class was Sané’s masterpiece and described as « as manoeuvrable as a frigate »...

 

13 hours ago, admin said:

i think he ws mostly referring to the fact that ocean should be the fastest ship across heavy lineships)))

of course - its a known fact that endymion could show 17-18 knots when going in the wind patch and even faster down the long wave… 
and any first rate would be faster than ANY other ship of lower length and strength in heavy waves 
we are constrained by the same wind speed and thus have to mainly balance for gameplay between classes. But within the class speed should appropriately reflect the hull and sailplan differences. Based on hull length and keel ocean should be faster than other first rate lineships. 

we are hot fixing the speed imbalance across lineships tomorrow. more will come later after the PB/Raid patch.

@admin
1. I think the all three of 1st rates are a bit unbalanced. I mean what is the reason for Victory now in the game?
My proposition:
Leave Vic weaker in HP and ordnance and speed, but because its a shorter ship out of other 2 increase its turn rate by 30%
Leave Santi as it is - a brick tank.
Buff LÓcean's speed a little

2. After the patch we went into PVP zone and registered no damage for damaging AI ships in there. Is that a bug or are we missing something? Is the damage dealt registers when ship is captured?

[Angus MacDuff]

14 hours ago, admin said:

the long term vision for this and future games in this series is to gradually move everything to the captain and separate the skill of sailing from boat stats. We have sailed real boats extensively for practice last 12-18 months and this is the major missing peace

Skilled captain of the age of sail will push his crappy 8 knot boat to sail 15 knots, by for example using gales, wind patches and wave to speed up and individual sails to push for more speed constantly adjusting the boat to sail faster. While an unskilled captain will probably capsize or will be in irons half the time. We are somewhat afraid to break the careful balance by introducing some things that could be added (like capsizing with too much sail), or removing wind indicators and speed indicators (you can only feel the real direction and its not static with wind changing constantly forcing you to turn slightly constantly) and you cannot really know real true speed  (even with knot line)

 

Be careful with this, my friend.  It's a great vision but it can be taken too far.  Your example of an 8 knot ship being driven to 15 knots is very unrealistic. A good captain could squeeze a knot or two out of his ship.  If you make the skill requirements too high, you could scare players away.  If I can go 15 knots to my opponent's 8, he'll give up.

[huliotkd]

well, nerf also santi and bellona pls.

all line ships have to be slower than before, and santi has to be slower than ocean

[Zoky]

22 hours ago, admin said:

22 hours ago, NOJODU said:

 

wasa is an oversight indeed. will also lose some speed. 

How could you forget about wasa lol 🤣? Wasa is the only ship that needed nerf imho 

[Earl of Grey]

Thats all so mad. Its like the joke a man asked the sadistic jinn (ghost) for a dick that reaches the ground ... bazoom the jhinn removes his legs ...

 

I never heard somebody complaining that 3rd rates or the victory is overpowered ... I only heard complaines that people want to sail bellona and Endy but cant because they have No permit ...

Bazooom 

3rd rate got a nerf ... vicy got a nerf ... we can capture now all ships except bellonas and santis ... 

Yeah, great ... 

What is better now? Its even worse ...

[toblerone]

18 hours ago, admin said:

the long term vision for this and future games in this series is to gradually move everything to the captain and separate the skill of sailing from boat stats. We have sailed real boats extensively for practice last 12-18 months and this is the major missing peace

Skilled captain of the age of sail will push his crappy 8 knot boat to sail 15 knots, by for example using gales, wind patches and wave to speed up and individual sails to push for more speed constantly adjusting the boat to sail faster. While an unskilled captain will probably capsize or will be in irons half the time. We are somewhat afraid to break the careful balance by introducing some things that could be added (like capsizing with too much sail), or removing wind indicators and speed indicators (you can only feel the real direction and its not static with wind changing constantly forcing you to turn slightly constantly) and you cannot really know real true speed  (even with knot line)

 

Is it possible that this "from ships to captain skill" will require another rank and ship skills wipe? 

Edited September 12, 2019 by toblerone

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

If you want to balance 1st rates, balance them regarding to 2nd & 3rd rates too please.

maybe keep 42pd for victory only (historical) an 36pd for anything else

nerf santi accel / turn rate / max speed

Increase 64 to 90 guns lineships thickness (maybe structure too) so they get more competitives in lineship battles.

 

 

About the captain navigation skill, i don't know if that can be made into NA at this stage, if this simply translate into gear & magic items or knowledges ala loodsman, that would be nearly pointless as everyone will simply grind the op ones as it is now. But a more player skill based sail & navigation would be rad. Gun stabilisation & turrets-like sniper feeling could also be reworked if we go the more simulation path.

Still the overall gameplay is a priority, eco/rvr, everything must hold & work together first, and i'm not talking about more ai ship.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Baptiste Gallouédec

[van der Clam]

6 minutes ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

If you want to balance 1st rates, balance them regarding to 2nd & 3rd rates too please.

maybe keep 42pd for victory only (historical) an 36pd for anything else

nerf santi accel / turn rate / max speed

I would suggest to devs that if we load heavier guns than historical that some negative effect occurs. Maybe massive heel, maybe worse accuracy, maybe horrible maneuverability....dunno, but something.