Hotfix for patch 35 - 11 September

[Atreides]

1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

A while ago i'd concur. At the moment ? Not so much unless the meta ship is captain'd by a very below average.

Mods + Books + Ports + Special Guns

 

I take those odds all the time.  My last such adventure yielded the following:  My ship was a:

An I was against, and captured a:

QED

[Serk]

I’d rather  reduce the BR for PB, and make all 3rd rate incredibly cheaper compared to 1rst rates to promote their use.

Also, introduce the 3 promised third rates ASAP for the sake of diversity and to increase the interest of the player base in sailing this class of ship. 

[AeRoTR]

I can understand capturable 4th rate and even 3rd rate, but 1st and 2nd rates ----> OMG LOL

Oak/crew space or not, any first rate will rip apart smaller ships with firepower, now I would use captured 1st or 2nd rate escort my fleet ships, and because now gankers will come with 1st rate fleets!

What are you doing to the game? Are we not over alpha, beta, have you not tested this ? Why still doing circles around the same things ?

What needs to be done;

1) Fix real trading

2) Nerf port bonuses

3) Focus on the announced content

[Marquês do Bonfim]

Making 1st rate expensive and difficult to get was the best thing they did so far, dude. Made port battles more diverse between 2nds and 3rd rate ships, you see them more in PBs and RvRs. Before, you only saw fleets of 1st rate. The issue here is that, being able to cap the bigger ships will unbalance again what once was "kinda" balanced. The issue right now are port bonuses, the ability to use paper capped ships to feed the enemy and rngs and permit walls on the smaller ships. The most frustrating feeling of finally getting a permit for a ship that you really wanted to get a blue 3/5 no trim ship, because grinding all those materials/resources and money wouldn't be good enough to reward you a good ship.

[Farrago]

This doesn't seem to be the solution that the community had suggested you try although we hardly speak with one voice.

Good luck to us all however.

[Razee]

Also the combat medal should be fixed they are insane..hercules note 150 cm..hermione 200?? Wtf.. a cm sells for 100k reals..so a hermione would be 2mil..

About the capping a we will see what happens i guess, there will be alot of larger ships just yolo'ing about i guess... im just gonna take my throwaway bellona to kpr now to gank some newbs instead of a well crafted 5th rate

[Georg Fromm]

I do not have any issues with the changes if the DEVS are willing to undo these changes if they do not promote the PvP

[HachiRoku]

1 hour ago, Atreides said:

I take those odds all the time.  My last such adventure yielded the following:  My ship was a:

An I was against, and captured a:

QED

Balance is not achieved by comparing bad players in good ships vs good players in bad ships. In most cases its the otherway around anyway. Skill should never be taken into consideration when comparing a fully outfitted ship with a ship captured by AI. In my opinion the bonuses are to much. Its not just the bonuses that are an issue. Since you can repair every 15 minutes you get an even higher bonus. Not that that matters since a standard captured ai ship will not last that long against a fully modded ship. 

This patch is a good step in the right direction but in my honest opinion it ignores a fundamental problem.

You send 25 newbs with AI first rates into a port battle against 25 average players with modded ships. We know that that all 25 newbs will be smashed. What do they learn from sinking? You do not learn from sinking and failing in this game because most newbs do not know what they are doing wrong. Fleet tactics and leading port battles has little to do with experience. Its knowledge. I lead the successful port battles of Britain to an instant success because I knew how to win 1v1s. I never learned from mistakes because I knew what was right or wrong in the first place. Better players taught me how to do 1v1s and after gaining the knowledge I could improve myself because I understood my mistakes. Knowledge is infinitely more important than experience. The only time experience comes into play is when you know what you are doing. Then you being to predict players movements, know what they will must do to survive or kill you and most importantly be able to know how well they can maneuver their fleet or individual ships. It was far more fun without infinite repairs since you had to do these things better because you had one chance. Since naval action is more about stats than skill repairs don't matter anymore. I don't care what people use as an excuse because I know why multireps are ingame. A certain kind of playerbase that the devs listen to enjoy clubbing over competitive skillbased gameplay. Naval action is not nearly as skillbased as it was and until people accept that, they will not know what the core issues are. 

 

The only outcome I personally see from this patch is more marks for good players that sink bad players. Sure they might enjoy trowing away ships but they will not improve their skill. Its not necessarily bad but I just think its not the main issue.

Modded crafted ships vs unmodded capture ships is like an F16 vs a Spitfire. Sure if I am sitting in the F16 and a pilot is in the Spitfire I will die because I have no idea what I am doing. Now lets put a pilot in the F16 and lets see how the "pro" spitfire pilot will do. I mean no offense man but you killing whoever that idiot in the trinco was means nothing more than he was an idiot. Harsh but true. 

[Farrago]

Although I have been in this game for years, I have zero experience with other MMO, sandboxes, or whatever you would call this game. This game is literally the first game I've played in 25 years.

So, will someone please answer this... Does a game of this sort have to have mods that players strive for in order to achieve success?

I really don't know the answer but at least for me, the most fair, the biggest draw to new and old players, would be if, while we might choose different configurations to achieve certain playstyles or mission purposes, everyone was working with similar equipment and technologies and the thing that mattered was skill, tactics, and overall strategy. 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Farrago

[JosephDutch]

Instead of bringing the crafting to a higher level so that you cann craft parts of your own choice that give a quality-ship of your own making, this is only in the advantage of 1 nation that recently lost too many ships. Hence those welcome it.

 

[van der Clam]

1 hour ago, Portuguese Privateer said:

Making 1st rate expensive and difficult to get was the best thing they did so far, dude. Made port battles more diverse between 2nds and 3rd rate ships, you see them more in PBs and RvRs. Before, you only saw fleets of 1st rate. The issue here is that, being able to cap the bigger ships will unbalance again what once was "kinda" balanced. The issue right now are port bonuses, the ability to use paper capped ships to feed the enemy and rngs and permit walls on the smaller ships. The most frustrating feeling of finally getting a permit for a ship that you really wanted to get a blue 3/5 no trim ship, because grinding all those materials/resources and money wouldn't be good enough to reward you a good ship.

 

1 hour ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

When did you do your last PB, mate? There is no option to sail with Oceans if you wanna have a chance to win. Already Santis are minor ships.. We tried once a PB with 10K BR with Wasas and failed terribly against an enemy with 1. and 2. Rates even though we had a numerical majority. The only reason for smaller ships is going for circles. Last time smaller ships have been an option in PBs was when we had ports with 2400 BR. Back then the 3. Rate was the king.

Avoiding 1. Rates in RvR goes only with restriction or lowering max. BR.

 

1 hour ago, Staunberg said:

What? I got you right, we now see more pb’s With 3 and 2 rate ships. My expirience was we saw more different ships before somebody convinced devs we needed mono pb’s With BR from 20-25 k. On top of that they put in a damage model that favored bigger ships . 

Making 1 rate expensive just made ppl stop doing RvR. If your opponent came in 1 rate and you only could get 3-2 rate, Well no reason to show up.

 

1st rates being expensive was an attempt to see them less spammed everywhere. To which is what we needed. Yet still...it's all we see ppl in at PBs. And the only ways to limit 1st rates in PBs, which will in turn make more variety of ships in PBs, is to set a BR limit per rate for PBs, or maybe (as someone, can't remember who suggested) to make the Admiralty appoint the number of 1st rates each nation can have by limiting the number of permits for them. It does not matter what the total BR is set for each port, because they will all be maxed out with 1st rates and a La Req or two to take up the last bit of BR left over. If you set the BR limit to 1000, you will see a 1st rate and something small. Set it to 2000 and you will see 2 1st rates and a small frig. Set it to 10000 and you will see 11 1st rates and something small.

The only viable way I can see a forced variety of ships in PBs is to limit the BR per rate.

[Sir Texas Sir]

Intereseting patch....but doesn't fix all the stupid permits locked behind RNG for the most part. I gotten one permit in around 100 chest and the rest of the loot hasn't been nothing but common mods and books. I got one good book for gunnery and that has been it.  RNG just hates me, but it seems that is where things are locked.

7 hours ago, Mascarino said:

But fireships don't win battles, port bonus and crazy modules do.

Now a screening fleet that tags the PB fleet on the other hand and fire ships them until they are down on ships or repairs before getting to the port battle.

6 hours ago, Louis Garneray said:

If you want to promote more PVP make the ships easier to build... Remove the Doubloons and permits from those ships we need.

Keep the permits RNG loot, but move them to the Admirality shop for combat marks and Victory Marks (they need something else to buy instead of investments).   I hate that certain ships that use to be common are locked behind RNG PvE wall taht is so random I can prob go a long time and never see anything I want.

2 hours ago, Louis Garneray said:

no thank you.... I sink NPC I'm not going to waste time to get some shitty ship.

I want to be able to craft all the ships (beside the DLC ones)  and not have them hidding behind RNG walls or doubloons/medals missions that are mostly a loss of time.

 

[Koltes]

7 hours ago, Mascarino said:

But fireships don't win battles, port bonus and crazy modules do.

Wrong. At Santiago we were fighting under the fort. We were not fighting in perfect builds (all were built in Nuevitas). Yet we faced GB defenses crafted in much better port.

Its easy to say that mods and bonuses are a done deal. But thats just BS. Fleet control, comms, players skills, coordination on command and individual level, teamwork always and I repeat always will be the most important winning factor. 

Only when you have 2 forces of absolutely equal teams then better ships will tip the balance. Otherwise its all about how you use your advantages and hide weaknesses 

[MassimoSud]

17 minutes ago, Farrago said:

Although I have been in this game for years, I have zero experience with other MMO, sandboxes, or whatever you would call this game. This game is literally the first game I've played in 25 years.

So, will someone please answer this... Does a game of this sort have to have mods that players strive for in order to achieve success?

I really don't know the answer but at least for me, the most fair, the biggest draw to new and old players, would be if, while we might choose different configurations to achieve certain playstyles or mission purposes, everyone was working with similar equipment and technologies and the thing that mattered was skill, tactics, and overall strategy. 

I understand your point of view, but people, even in a mmo need a purpose.
so at the beginning they want to understand how to fight, how to trade and how to craft ships. all right so far, except for trade, completely broken and boring (I won't repeat the reasons why we all know them). Here we lose a lot of players (the traders precisely, and I assure you they could be really a lot!).
then we want to rank up, and the rank curve seems to me balanced, it takes time, but in two / three months anyone can be Admiral with a bit of dedication. The problem is that at the beginning, when we are inexperienced, as soon as we put out our noses in a lousy frigate we get ganked by players thirsty for CMs. And here we lose other players. Let s give them protection, maybe a month, it happens in many mmo, and  please let s eliminate CMs, doubloons or other currencies and let s adopt only one economic system, one currency.
when we got used a little to the game mechanics, we want to develop a port, and if we are not a great clan we have no chance! Why must there be ports where there are 55 points and disgusting and useless ports? Developing a port is not a trivial matter, it costs time doubloons reals stones and so on .... why not give everyone the chance to develop a port with good features? Even small clans, with dedication and enormous efforts, must have the chance to develop "their" port!
Some will say that in this way the RvR dies, there would be no reason to conquer ports! The problem is that the reasons must be found elsewhere, the reward must not be to be able to craft better ships than the others, because this would cause greater differences between strong and weak nations, without any possibility of reversing the trend (and with the only advantage only for the devs to sell more forged papers dlc!).
So the reward must be different, perhaps a title clearly visible to all of which you can be proud, perhaps the possibility of crafting an exclusive ship (but not an OP, only a "rare" one), perhaps chests with exclusive paints and flags. Anything that pushes us to conquer new ports, but that does not create a greater gap between those who have good ports and those who do not!
These refits and books are also a purpose, something that keeps us searching, playing ... but they must not give excessive advantages, but they are and remain a goal for many.
Port battles (and raids, RvR in general) must be the top of the game, but they must be various! There are captains who love sail Sols, others who prefer frigates, we must find a role for each of them, so many ships present in the game, we must find a purpose for each one.
I realize that developing only some of these ideas involves commitment and resources (economic and time), but if we continue on this road we will barely reach Christmas, and then we will be 200/300 veterans again who cry because we can't find anyone in a huge map!
As always I wish the best for "our" favorite game!

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

2 hours ago, Razee said:

Also the combat medal should be fixed they are insane..hercules note 150 cm..hermione 200?? Wtf.. a cm sells for 100k reals..so a hermione would be 2mil..

About the capping a we will see what happens i guess, there will be alot of larger ships just yolo'ing about i guess... im just gonna take my throwaway bellona to kpr now to gank some newbs instead of a well crafted 5th rate

It is of little importance to the newbie if you kill her in a pimped frigate or a "throwaway bellona" sic!. but unwillingly you just described one of the biggest problems in game.

[Tristan Wolfe]

This thread is getting spicy.   In the end I don't see much of a issue with the patch.  Us noobs need rate ships we can learn in.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Tristan Wolfe

[Oli Garchy]

2 hours ago, koltes said:

Only when you have 2 forces of absolutely equal teams then better ships will tip the balance. Otherwise its all about how you use your advantages and hide weaknesses 

like how you use your spanish advantage to manipulate hostility by farming with friends?

[Koltes]

17 minutes ago, Oli Garchy said:

like how you use your spanish advantage to manipulate hostility by farming with friends?

Like how is that a part of the argument that bonuses wins PBs? You comparing apples and oranges.

If you wanna talk about player made alliances or one nation having more population hence being stronger etc, then its a separate issue that IMHO should be sorted by allowing different entrance into Port Battles - like having immunity vs screeners so even small nations that could just master 25 players could still be competitive in RVR.
Screeners should still be incorporated so more people involved in the RVR not just PB fleet, but their purpose there should be different, not tagging the PB fleet.
 

[Bach]

8 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

I think THAT is what some of these heroes are really worried about.  

I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I really am not. I like the game and hope it does well. But lack of 1st rate ships isn't the problem. I know many players with spare 1st rates. It is a morale problem that stops players from fighting what they believe will be a futile battle that holds them back. We need something put in that gives them what they would consider a reasonable chance to win.  A free first rate is only instilling hope in a player that didn't already have one. I hope I am wrong but I think all this change will do is create more 1st rate grinders earlier than they would have been in 1st rates. I doubt wee will see any great changes in the PB participation in the long run.

[Macjimm]

31 minutes ago, Bach said:

We need something put in that gives them what they would consider a reasonable chance to win.

I shouldn't really jump into this cause I don't know much about battles, and fighting.  but .....

is this game sophisticated enough that teamwork, leadership, clear communication and individual skills could make a difference?

[Oli Garchy]

47 minutes ago, koltes said:

Like how is that a part of the argument that bonuses wins PBs? You comparing apples and oranges.

If you wanna talk about player made alliances or one nation having more population hence being stronger etc, then its a separate issue that IMHO should be sorted by allowing different entrance into Port Battles - like having immunity vs screeners so even small nations that could just master 25 players could still be competitive in RVR.
Screeners should still be incorporated so more people involved in the RVR not just PB fleet, but their purpose there should be different, not tagging the PB fleet.
 

apples and oranges can be the same when they are both rotten

[Tenet]

11 hours ago, admin said:

BR updates will be delivered with main "treacherous waters patch" they cant be deployed faster

That is good to hear. If the option can be coded - can you consider Rate Quantity Limits, not just BR, to promote a greater variety of ships? Like 3 First Rates, 5 Second Rates, etc.  This will allow people who are not into big-ships to actually become highly useful in RvR, and promote greater tactical variety in some ports. I understand forcing arbitrary limits is bad in a sandbox, but it is easier than balancing towards variety with so many factors. 

12 hours ago, Severus Snape said:

So if this is correct AI 1st rates can now be captured by players...but will be drastically inferior to crafted ships?

If the goal is to increase port battles wouldn’t it make more sense to lower the permit and crafting costs of lineships instead?  No one will bring captured ships into a battle vs crafted ones.  If you want to put more fans in the seats you need to lower the price of admission into RVR.

If upgrades and guns could be lowered in price (increased in drop frequency), and if repairs were easier to produce (why is 1 RUM = 2 labor hours!?), then these could have been used for screening - providing cheap BR.

Unfortunately with current balance - quite a bit of the cost of ships is actually in the mods and guns, still prohibitively priced to throw away on weaker and slower hulls.

[Sea Archer]

We had this (capture big AI) before and it was removed for a good reason.

We will see many sailing around in the big ships now, while only the new players have to use the smaller ones.

I guess pvp will really increase (which seems to be the only goal of the devs), but the variety of of ships in OW will decrease.

You will see a few skilled players sinking the less skilled with smaller ships, but I do not see that the overall quality of the game will win by this measure.

[Sea Archer]

When all ships are available in high amounts now, we need something to promote sailing small ships.

Maybe in the way that a smaller ship is always faster than a bigger one or that water depth becomes important, not only shallows and deep. If there were narrow channels in port battles, where the 1st rates have to move, while 3rd and 4th rates have much more space to manoeuvre, or a mortar brig hiding behind and island, where even 5th rates can barely shoot it, since the water is too shallow, but the brig might be able to shoot the channel to the port. That would bring much more tactics and surprises to battles.

I hope, one day it may be implemented in this game.

[Hethwill, the Red Duke]

13 minutes ago, Sea Archer said:

When all ships are available in high amounts now, we need something to promote sailing small ships.

Variable winds !!!! C'mon GameLabs I know you guys can pull this one  @admin